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Sizing very wide ring correctly


#1

A customer in the USA has asked me to make a different size for her
in one of my ring designs she has seen online. It is a very wide
band, around an inch and a half wide.

She has asked for a USA size 10 - but where should the ring fall on
my ring-sizer for me to know if that is the correct size? The inch
and a quarter wide band covers around 4 whole sizes on my English
ring-mandrel ring-sizer. How do I know I am definitely making a USA
size 10 (or T 1/2 for English sizing)?

Where should the edges of the band stop on the ring sizer? Should it
be in the centre of the band, lying directly over T 1/2? Or should
it the bottom of the ring be at T 1/2? Or the top of the ring at T
1/2?

I will also need to make it in wax, should I make it one size larger
to allow for shrinkage? (I have already suggested she go up one size
to allow for the ring to go on her finger and the back is narrowed,
to help make the ring comfortable to wear.)

Thank you for any help you can give.
Sarah


#2
A customer in the USA has asked me to make a different size for
her in one of my ring designs she has seen online. It is a very
wide band, around an inch and a half wide. 

A ring that wide is not going to fit the same as a narrower ring
(you size by where the ring touches the mandrel, though). What I have
done in similar situations is to mock up a copper ring and send it to
my customer to try. I adjust that until the fit is just right, even
if it requires several mailings. Then I can use that as a model for
the final piece.

If it is to be cast, clearly you have to make it larger to
compensate for shrinkage, but someone else (your caster?) will have
to guide you on that.

If I wore an inch-and-a-half-wide ring, I wouldn’t be able to bend
my finger!

Noel


#3

Hello Sarah, I always position the ring so that the center of the
shank lines up with the desired size marking on the mandrel. This
automatically compensates for any width ring.

Have fun.
Tom Arnold


#4

Your ring stick is tapered and each marked division shows the ring
size at that mark.

According to my documentation, USA size 10 is a fraction bigger than
T1/2, but nearer T1/2 than U, so, if the ring is size 10 for the
entire width of 1.5" then it should slide onto the stick up to T1/2,
and no further, both ways round.

Frankly, a 1.5" wide ring is a tube rather than a ring and, in my
opinion, will be almost unwearable because it will cover up a
knuckle; still, if that’s what the customer wants…

I’m assuming that the ring is essentially solid, in that there are
no holes in it. If that is the case then be aware that wide rings are
difficult to size correctly. It’s not difficult to make a wide ring
of a particular size, but its difficult to determine just what the
size should be.

When the ring is being worn, the finger will sweat beneath it, and
the wider the ring the more difficult it is for the sweat to
evaporate. The moist skin under the ring then swells like it does
under a plaster (band-aid?) which can make removal of the ring very
difficult. This puffiness is known as maceration, and can lead to
bacterial or fungal infection.

The usual cure is to make the ring somewhat larger than measured,
but the difficulty lies in how much bigger. I once made a 1/2" wide
wedding band, one size larger than measured. After several months the
woman complained that the skin was all puffy under the ring, and
itched. I made the ring a size bigger, but the problem returned. I
ended up making it 3 sizes larger; the puffiness disappeared but the
ring was in danger of falling off when she was cold.

As far as I can tell, the shrinkage allowance for gold is around 2%
(someone will correct me if I’m wrong), which amounts to just under
a (UK) size for a T1/2 ring.

Regards, Gary Wooding


#5

Sarah- The band size is determined by the leading edge of the band
on the mandrel, unless it’s a comfort fit band. Then the size marker
on the mandrel needs to be in the middle of the ring at the smallest
part.

l always add 1/2 size for a wide band. The one you’re making is so
wide that it’d be a good idea to have the customer try on the wax
first to see if you’ve got it right.

Have fun and make lots of jewelry.
Jo Haemer
www.timothywgreen.com


#6

Sarah,

That is a really wide band even for a size 10, are your customers
fingers even that long ??

I would really try to convince them of the tapered shank idea, you
are going to have to do it sooner or latter

Centre line of ring on the size line of the mandrel, from both
directions, has always worked for me. Wax a tight fit or even
slightly small. Not much shrinkage from wax to metal and I always
prefer a few whacks with a wood hammer to the saw and torch size
routine. I love my saw and torch but a hammer is my first choice of
tools.

jeffD
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand


#7
Where should the edges of the band stop on the ring sizer? Should
it be in the centre of the band, lying directly over T 1/2? Or
should it the bottom of the ring be at T 1/2? Or the top of the
ring at T 1/2? 

Yes 10= T 1/2, I will offer you my ring sizing page at
http://www.celtarts.com/ring_size.htm

be sure to scroll down to see what we say about where to read the
mandrel. A 1.5 inch wide ring is going to be such a strange thing to
fit that I doubt that anything is going to work other than having the
customer try it on. Yes, you need to allow for shrinkage from wax to
metal. I usually expect one quarter size from wax to metal or one
half size from metal model that has been rubber molded. There are
lots of factors. Results may vary.


#8
Centre line of ring on the size line of the mandrel, from both
directions 

I think I must be missing something, but measuring a ring using the
centre of the ring is all well and good with a comfort fit band
where the inside of the ring is curved in profile, or a ring of an
anticlastic design - but if it is a normal, flat profile ring, then
only the outer edges will be measurable. With the mandrel being
tapered, you won’t get the leading edge past the point where the
centre of the ring could be measured (where the leading edge hits
the mandrel, the centre of the ring will NOT be in contact with the
mandrel) - especially on a one and a half inch ring! Or am I barking
up the wrong tree? Also, even if it was possible to measure the
centre of the ring, unless it was transparent or pierced, you won’t
be able to see through it to measure the centre line.

Incidentally, I also think that wearing a ring that wide would be
extremely uncomfortable, unless it was pierced to allow the skin to
breathe. I made myself a ring a while ago, which is only about a
centimeter and a half wide (but tapered at the back), and even that
gets uncomfortable to wear after a while.

I hope you manage to sort it satisfactorily.

Helen
UK


#9
Centre line of ring on the size line of the mandrel, from both
directions, has always worked for me. 

I agree with Jeff on the centerline measurement, especially for wide
rings! Of course, this is such a wide ring the leading edge will
have to be used, if it’s a tube shape. If you go with the tapered
design, then use centerline.

A caution on sizing though: I was taught that wide rings have to be
larger in order to fit like a typical narrow ring shank. I’m not
surprised that a 1/2" wide ring would require being 3 sizes larger
than the ‘finger size’. In my shop I have narrow and wide
finger-sizers; a 2mm size 10 ring may fit her, but a 6mm size 10
ring won’t. You can’t just go with what the customer says her ring
size it, for this reason.

I like Noel’s idea about the mockup.

best regards,
Kelley Dragon
sweating in Florida, where the Sandhill Cranes are going through the
mating dance three months early


#10

Helen,

I think I must be missing something, but measuring a ring using
the centre of the ring is all well and good with a comfort fit band
where the inside of the ring is curved in profile, or a ring of an
anticlastic design - but if it is a normal, flat profile ring,
then only the outer edges will be measurable. [BIG SNIP] 

There just isn’t such a beast as a normal, flat profile ring, not if
you use a tapered mandrel at all. Not as severe a profile as a
traditional comfort fit but the edges are going to be larger than the
centre line. You don’t need x-ray vision to see the centre line, a
rough eye balling is usually good enough, or break out the callipers.
Good jewellers are often required to see stuff which isn’t real.

I have never found sizing to be an exact science. Watching someone
play and fumble with the ring sizers and looking at their hands for a
couple of minutes has always been better than just a cold hard number
on a job bag.

You are right about it being impractical to wear, I have made some
impractical stuff (to order) but this is an order of magnitude
beyond my feeble efforts :slight_smile:

jeffD
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand


#11

Just wanted to say many many thanks to everyone who helped out with
this question. All your has been enormously helpful to
me and I’m very grateful.

I think a copper mock-up would be very sensible. I’ve done this with
customers in the UK, but its going to the USA and she seemed certain
of her size, so I just took a chance. Hope I won’t regret it!

I do agree that 1 1/2 inches is a bit too long.

It is a solid flat ring with a continuous design so no possibility
of seeing through it.

Many thanks again for all the advice given here, it’s been a huge
help.

Sarah


#12

Just wanted to say many many thanks to everyone who helped out with
this question.

All your has been enormously helpful to me and I’m very
grateful.

I think a copper mock-up would be very sensible. I’ve done this with
customers in the UK, but its going to the USA and she seemed certain
of her size, so I just took a chance. Hope I won’t regret it!

I do agree that 1 1/2 inches is a bit too long.

It is a solid flat ring with a continuous design so no possibility
of seeing through it.

Many thanks again for all the advice given here, it’s been a huge
help.

Sarah


#13

Sarah, Please post photos when you finish. I’d love to see what it
looks

Dinah


#14

You might consider sending some copper models in some +/- sizes
along with the real thing, then if the real thing doesn’t quite fit,
she’d have some choices to try thereby giving you accurate sizing
info. I’d engrave or stamp the size on each model.

Mike DeBurgh