Hello all,
I have recently been introduced to a simulated diamond called
Lannyte. In searching around the web I seem to be finding that it is
actually a branded type of cz. Does anybody know anything about this
product? It looks really good–more diamondy than Moissanite.
Thanks,
Janet Alix
Janet,
This company has been around for about twenty years. They are NOT up
front about disclosing what they are actually selling.
Their colorless material does match the properties of ordinary CZ.
Their colored material is synthetic (lab grown) corundum. The
cutting on the pieces I have seen were the typical overseas cutting.
The problem with CZ, as I’m sure you know, is a lack of durability
in rings. They do offer replacement for damaged stones in normal
wear conditions, but they send the replacement to the jeweler, not
the owner.
I understand why you don’t care for Moissanite…greenish tinge in
daylight, double refraction that causes doubling of the pavilion
facets, creating a “fuzzy” look and its expensive and does NOT carry
a warranty. AND…it has a plane of easy parting allowing the stone
to possibly split when being set. I’ve had dozens come in for repair
that have split like this.
I custom cut colorless YAG as a diamond simulant, it is MUCH more
durable and less expensive than syn Moissanite.
BUT… I can tall you that I have also cut quite a bit of
colorless topaz as a diamond simulant. When polished on a very hard
lap, like eramic, with 100,000 grit diamond polish, it is BRIGHT!!!
And D/E color! And durable and not expensive.
Now, I know the physical specs aren’t close to diamond, but it still
makes an awesome diamond simulant when cut with high precision.
CZ is great for pendants, a little scary for rings that get worn
often…IMO.
Wayne Emery
I have recently been introduced to a simulated diamond called Lannyte.
Janet, I know some pepole who use Lannyte frequently. First off,
many will choke on the “simulated diamond” — but that’s another
issue. It’s my understanding that Lannytes are a proprietary stone -
i.e. a secret. Supposedly they are not CZs, plus they don’t look
like them. IMO they are the very best substitute for a real diamond.
They’re certainly not cheap, but they are fine looking stones. (IMO
moissonite is a very expensive joke). They look very, very much like
diamond…
Thank you, Wayne, for your very succinct answer and the suggested
alternatives. Considering it is CZ, they are charging rather a lot,
I think. I will speak to my client and see if any of these other
simulants might work for him.
The wonderful Orchid–filling in the blanks.
In gratitude,
Janet
John, I agree that they somehow look better than CZs. But I found
this to be especially true of the Ascher cut stones. I ordered one
round brilliant and I’m not sure I could distinguish that one from a
similar CZ. Have you seen other cuts?
Thanks,
Janet
Janet,
They may also offer a colorless synthetic sapphire. In small sizes,
it makes a “reasonable” diamond substitute and very durable, but
colorless YAG or even topaz will look better, IMO.
While colorless topaz has a lower RI than both diamond, YAG or
sapphire, it has a property that used to be called “crystal” or
"water" by the old timers. It refers to the exceptional transparency
or diaphaneity of topaz, also seen in some spinel and diamond. Hard
to describe, but very visible. For it to be effective, the polish
must be exceptional, and that’s a rarity in commercially produced
stones, but easy to do for most cutters in this country.
Wayne
Hi John,
My material from the Lannyte Co. has an RI of about 2.15 and a SG
around 5.7. Dispersion higher than diamond, and under high
magnification, the surfaces and meets have the hairline scratches
and drag lines characteristic of commercially polished CZ. If it
walks like a duck…
They’ve been misleading (IMO) consumers with vague trade names for
years such as “Coranite” and “Tanavyte”, it needs to come to a halt.
As I recall, the “Coranite” is synthetic corundum, the “Tanavyte” is
color-change YAG, a Tanzanite simulant.
This sort of thing strikes a strong chord with me, as I cut stones
for a living. I cut both natural and synthetic stones, as well as
simulants, because there is a market for all of these. There is a
strong consumer demand for lab grown materials, but consumers want
and need DISCLOSURE.
They want to know what they are buying, and, in the case of natural
goods, whether or not they have been treated. Now, I know that many
jewelers do not wish to discuss treatment because they fear it will
cost them a sale. This is nonsense, of course, and serves no one,
plus there is a legal requirement to disclose treatment.
It has been the same in my experience with synthetics and the
consumers. While a few elitists will have nothing to do with them,
many are happy with an affordable piece that will pass the cocktail
party test. (Women DO dye their hair, remember.) So some cusomers
are certainly open to purchasing them, but people WANT disclosure
and appreciate it when they get it.
I have never been real happy with Lannyte’s vague approach.
Wayne Emery
My material from the Lannyte Co. has an RI of about 2.15 and a SG around 5.7. Dispersion higher than diamond, and under high magnification, the surfaces and meets have the
Yeah, Wayne, as I said, I don’t know what the material is - I found
it hard to believe that Lannyte was some mysterious material that
only they knew about, too. But it may be so, too, I don’t know. I do
know that it looks really good - for whatever reason it looks a lot
better than any other CZs I’ve ever seen…
I have never seen lannyte up close. When this thread started I sent
e-mail to the company with following questions:
This is the response I got:
Thank you for your email enquiry.
I think I can best answer your queries by explaining that Lannyte
is a registered trademark for ALL "Lab-grown and simulated"
gemstones produced by Lannyte Gemstones Inc. As you are no doubt
aware the Federal Trade Commission has published rules and
regulations to cover the trade in these man-made materials. For
your I attach an extract from a document published
by us for use by consumers.
The Federal Trade Commission in efforts to protect the general
public, had published the booklet entitled "Guides to the
Jewelry Industry", (1979), as well as "Facts for Consumers",
(1989). Phrases in quote marks ( " ) will indicate that we are
using wording from either or both of these documents.
"As their names indicate, natural stones are found in nature:
Synthetic stones are made in a laboratory. Except for their
origin synthetics are essentially the same as natural stones in
their composition and properties, such as hardness and
brilliance. By contrast, imitation or simulated stones only
resemble natural stones appearance".
The words synthetic and imitation are not good marketing words
and the FTC guides say that a synonym can be used provided it
clearly discloses the nature of the product and the fact that it
is not natural. For example:- for synthetic - use -
Laboratory-grown, Created or man-made for imitation - use -
Simulated, Fake or similar word There are various methods used
by the industry to manufacture gemstones and it is important to
realize that all synthetics, regardless of the method of
manufacture have to be essentially the same as the natural
material. It is therefore obvious that they themselves have to
be essentially the same. In these circumstances, claims that
"created" is better than "laboratory-grown" or that
"laboratory-grown" is better that "synthetic" are to be regarded
as marketing hype only.
Having established the above I would like to confirm that we
follow these regulations exactly. (Which is more than can be said
for a number of other purveyors of "gems made by man") Your
questions are therefore unanswerable in their present form as
the answer for each material is different.
All laboratory-grown materials will be exactly the same
chemically, optically and physically as their natural stone and
all simulated materials will be different as in each case they
will be created to resemble the best in the natural stone they
are simulating. All of our descriptions will state clearly
whether we are supplying a lab-grown gemstone or a simulated
gemstone.
If someone knows how to interpret it in context of my questions, I
would be interested in your opinions.
Leonid Surpin
Good work, Leonard!
What they have done is what Lannyte has always done, not answer the
question.
They are honest and up front about telling which of their products
is true synthetic and which is a simulant. But they do NOT disclose
WHICH simulant. And that can be VERY important to the bench person
or the wearer when it comes to durability, heat resistance, etc.
And their cutting is still very mediocre. You get what you pay for,
but they can use all the made-up names they want, it is still
deceptive.
If a client asks me for a synthetic Tanzanite, I will say there is
none. But I can cut a simulant for them, some more realistic looking
than others, some more durable than others, some with a more
convincing color shift than others. And I will call the product by
its actual name, not something I made up.
I would say Ican provide synthetic Forsterite, with such-and-such
properties, or Tanzanite-colored synthetic corundum, or
Tanzanite-colored YAG witn excellent color shift and high
durability, etc.
These things have names, there is no need to make up some phony
marketing name. Oh, wait, yes there is, if you wish to mislead.
And I object to that.
Now, I have ZERO problem if you don’t want the material, don’t like
the material, insist on natural material, etc. But my conversations
and my invoices are very, very clear about the material we are
working with. Deception is deception, IMO.
Wayne Emery
The Gemcutter
"Bending Light Since 1975"
If someone knows how to interpret it in context of my questions, I would be interested in your opinions.
All the company representative has done is act like a politician.
They have told you what you already know - the difference between
synthetic and simulated gems. Then they’ve gone on to say that they
can’t answer your specific questions as they don’t know which
particular stone you’re asking about.
You could email them back and ask the same questions again,
specifying that you are asking about their diamond substitute in
particular. They probably won’t answer your questions as they do
seem to be rather evasive when it comes to giving out technical
details of what they are actually selling.
Helen
UK
Hi Leonid,
Not one of your questions were answered, except to confirm that if
their diamonds are called simulated then they are simulated. I guess
the answers to your questions are to be found in tests conducted
outside their organization.
If even some of your questions were answered, then we jewellers would
have some idea what we might be dealing with. The only fact evident
so far is that the simulated diamonds are very pretty and look like
diamond.
Alastair
Hi All,
I was able to borrow a stone purchased from the Lannyte Company from
a local jeweler here. It is colorless, and is the material they sell
as a diamond simulant.
It reads beyond the limit of my refractometer, so the refractive
index is higher than 1.80 or so. Measurement by the Hodgkinson
method indicates an RI around 2.2.
The specific gravity is 5.88.
Examination under short wave UV light in a darkened room shows a
yellow/beige fluorescence.
It’s cubic zirconia, pure and simple.
Wayne Emery
Good for you Wayne Our feelings exactly. White Gold is something
that allso needs this clearing up if you go onto the Orchid video of
where they blend Ruthite and Platinum (2 parts) those two guys really
call a spade a spade and tell it the way it is thanks Orchid
Frank
I’ve bought multiple stones from Lannyte and I was very satisfied with their products, but there are many misconceptions about this brand. Lannyte is basically a brand which sells all sorts of earth mined diamond alternatives and natural gemstone alternatives. One of these alternatives is their “simulated diamonds” which they explicitly state is NOT a natural diamond or a lab diamond. They also sell lab diamonds and moissanites as well as apart of their alternatives to natural diamonds. Anyway, I think what everyone is calling a “Lannyte” in this thread is their “simulated diamond” which is made from zirconium dioxide, but the finished product is head and shoulders above your standard cubic zirconia. I think they have some proprietary processes and/or substances which they use to acheive this. Hope this helps!
zirconium dioxide crystallizes in only two forms: baddeleyite and cubic zircornia. baddeleyite is a rare zircornium mineral found only in silica undersaturated rocks, it’s monoclinic…it comes colorless to black and transparent to opaque… CZ does occur in nature but as exceedingly rare microcrystals as inclusions in baddelelyite and zircorn.
Proprietary simulants go by brand trade names. Often the brand names are deliberately confusing. Selling lab created or simulants for natural diamonds is illegal and constitutes fraud.
Not giving out further information other than simulant or synthetic doesn’t tell you what the material is… simulants for diamonds can be YAG, CZ, Moissanite or even glass… “lab created” is also non responsive as several methods can be used to create different gemstones of the same chemical composition and physical properties of natural stones… with diamonds, 90% are made by vapor deposition, with the remainder being made by high teperature/pressure hydraulic presses…
Have to agree with you with brand name/ proprietary simulant products. They cannot legally sell as natural a synthetic nor a simulant, and the cannot legally sell a synthetic from a simulant.
That being said, they can hide behind the brand name and/or proprietary process to conceal what they are actually selling… the FTC laws don’t specify disclosure of what type of simulant… therein lies the problem… it doesn’t matter much to the uninformed layperson who is looking for something that is sparkly, flashy and cheap… it does matter to professionals and interested laypersons who want to know what they are really buying.
Interesting. So what I like about Lannyte is that they clearly state on their website what they mean when they use the words “Simulated” and “Lab Created.” All of thier gems are split in to these two categories. Apparently when they use “Simulated” they mean the stone is not the same chemical composition as the earth mined counterpart. When they use the term “Lab Created” or “Lab Grown” they are gauranteeing it is the same chemical composition as the earth mined counterpart. So “simulated diamond” is not the same chemical composition as a earth mined diamond, but a “lab created” or “lab grown” diamond is the same chemical composition as the earth mined counterpart. It’s all on the front page of their website actually www.lannyte.com.
These terms can get so confusing and there seem to be alot of brands that take advantage of the confusion, but I’ve found Lannyte to be pretty straightforward. I think the most confusing thing they cleared up for me was the difference between a “simulated” and a “synthetic”. Honestly it all sounds the same. There should be some sort of agreed upon standard term for this stuff.
you are absolutely correct, simulants “simulate” gemstones… they are of a different chemical composition from both natural and lab created…as a result they don’t have the same physical and optical properties of either… Cubic zircornia comes in all colors and costs at whole sale $1.00 per ct… can be spotted by price and also higher “sparkle” than diamonds due to much greater dispersion… also wears poorly, will dull with scratching in a ring… moissanite is another higher cost simulant, in non gem form, it’s just carborundum…grindstone material…“lab created” or “synthetic” refers to the real mineral grown by several methods… diamonds, corundum gems (rubies, sapphires), emerald, almost every gemstone can be grown under artificially created environments that mimic the natural environment in which natural stones grow… they are more costly than simulants but afford attractive prices for those who cannot afford natural stone…the good quality ones can only be distinquished from natural by microscopic examination by an expert gemologist… characteristic includions are present specific to the method they are grown by… I don’t like “synthetic” and prefer “lab grown”… confusion arises as simulants are also synthetic…including high refractive index glass… trade name are even more confusing… if there’s a trade name, the seller is obligated to disclose whether it’s a simulant or lab grown.
The diamond market is in a slump with low prices for natural stones… as of today, the Chinese are buying gold rather than natural diamonds…lab grown diamonds are produced by the ton… 90% goes to industrial uses, as does 90% of natural diamonds that are not of gem quality…In the US, the poplularity of lab grown stones is high… an estimated 25% of diamonds sold are lab grown…the cost is less than 1/3 of natural… US consumers have become less picky about lab grown given the affordable price…East Asians still prize high quality jade and pearls more than diamonds.
see my reply above. Thanks.