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Shop Safety [was Grinder]


#1

Hi Ed,

loose pieces flung past my head too many times. We all have done
stuff that in a machine shop would get us fired because of the
danger to others and ourselves. We should start a thread on shop
safety. Ed Ward Ward’s Stone Creations

Not a bad idea! I’ve only recently started using the
electro-stripping process and I found it quite difficult to get
safety data.

The stripping salts mention that the product contains Potassium
cyanide (these are stripping salts for silver), but what else
does it contain?

I am currently wearing my normal shop coat plus safety specs,
natural latex gauntlets and a mask with an ABE1 (Organic vapours,
acid gases and sulpher dioxide) filter.

So far I’m still alive, so I guess that I must be doing
something right!

A safety equipment manufacturer recommends disposable coverals and a
force-fed respirator or full BA equipment. (They would, I guess).
Yet, I have seen photographs of people working plating and stripping
baths with nothing more than day clothes and a lab coat.

So, what do other people use?

Also, a little about Potassium cyanide would be useful. I have
a data sheet that tells me how lethal it is and how it can give
off hydrogen cyanide and it also talks of lethal doses etc. What
about non-lethal doses ie: Is it a cumlative poison or will my
body deal with accidental non-lethal doses over a long time
period?

As for polishing wheels, well I use a guard but I occassionaly
flip it up when I can’t see the work well enough due to
reflections. I guess that we’re all guilty of that one from time
to time.

Anybody else got any tips or tricks for shop safety?

Regards,

Kerry
| Website - http://www.bennie.demon.co.uk/ |
| Hand made Celtic and Scottish Jewellery, Katunayake, Creagorry, |
|Isle of Benbecula, Outer Hebrides HS7 5PG Kingdom of Scotland |
|Tel:44 1870 602677 Fax:44 1870 602956 Mobile:44 85-005-9162 |


#2

Hi Kerry! Check the pregnancy thread that appeared also. Someone
who does it on a regular basis should have more info. Other than
that I would check with the nearest vocational tech school or
college. In the Outer Hebrides that might be a problem. MSC
http://www.mscdirect.com and Seton (use altavista to locate
their site) have full lines of protective gear and apparatus. In
the UK there should be comparable companies. If I was doing
electroplating I would definitely build a fan ventilated box that
exhausted to an outside area away from the building above ground
level and any thing that might be hurt by the fumes if something
went wrong. I would also wear chemical resistant gloves and an
apron that would keep me from being splashed by the liquids. I
don’t think that a full environment suit would be necessary but a
tyvek apron and a set of nitrile/pvc combo gloves is better than
chemical poisoning of any degree. There was a series of web posts
a couple of months ago about a researcher who got one drop of
dimethyl mercury splashed on her and it killed her after about a
year. In some cases of the electroplating chemicals I know that I
don’t want them released in to the local ground water. That means
paying a fee to licensed disposal service to pick them up and
treat them.

A half face respirator that keeps out dust and most organic
vapors is a good idea. I wear glasses so the full face type
doesn’t fit well unless I go to the full helmet models. I use a
half mask and a full face shield for somethings. As one other
post said if you can smell it it’s too much.

We all work with stuff that is dangerous if it is mishandled.
It’s taking the chance that today I won’t get caught that leads
to it eventually catching up to us.

I had an instructor in college that before I could use any of
the materials I had to read the sheets, sign off on them and then
demonstrate the proper procedure before she would let me use it.
I’ve never regretted taking five extra minutes to set up when it
was demonstrated what happens when you don’t. Cyanide gas kills
in seconds and all it takes is one lung full.

It’s a nuisance to wear heavy gloves so I use nitrile/latex and
alligator skin from Rio Grande when I am working with cleaners.
The alligator skin is a treated gauze that gives me a non slip
grip. I also use a kitchen exhaust type fan to suck the air from
above the bench. If I were working with stronger chemicals I
would probably build a ventilated box with a safety glass shield
across at a forty five degree angle so that it would stop
anything from hitting me in the face.

By the way I have been visting the Orchid forum’s member
websites and you have some really great work. Ed Ward Ward’s Stone
Creations


#3

Hi Edwin,

Thanks for your posting… I had already followed quite a bit of
the prgnancy thread and found it interesting. As you rightly
guessed, there would be a problem with acquiring such information
locally. I have thought about a fan-ventillated box as well and
may build such an item to cover the whole of my wet bench.
Exhausting it could be a problem though as the winds blow pretty
strong here from most directions and I would need to ensure that
I didn’t get a back-draught.

I don’t wear an apron but I may well consider one now that you
mention it. The gloves are natural latex and are recommended by
our local safety equipment manufacturer for Cyanide.

That dimethyl mercury sounds pretty horrible. I don’t know
wwhich I would prefer, a slow death or the fairly quick one from
cyanide. If the truth be known, I’d rather take my chances with
old age and give them both a miss.

At the moment I maintain the bath by adding salts for strength
and water to combat evaporation. I catch the rinse water from
the pieces and store it in a tank for the moment. The
concentrations in the rinse must be pretty low. As for the
sludge in the tank, I would like to recover the silver/gold from
it and discard the copper. I have not looked at that yet as I
haven’t accumulated much. If anybody has hints on retrieving
metal from stripping baths then I’d be interested to hear them.
I’ve tried reversing the current and this seems to allow me to
remove copper but not the silver content.

I haven’t been able to smell anything yet but then I don’t want
to remove the mask to find out if I can detect it anyway. :-))

I’ve seen the data sheet on cyanide and it mentioned something
like 150mg is instantly fatal. :-S

I could try a kitchen type exhaust too. I take it you use the
type with a hood or is it a fan in the genreral rather than
specific area.

Thank you kindly for your comments about the website… It’s
always a good buzz when someone likes one’s efforts.

Kind regards,

Kerry
| Website - http://www.bennie.demon.co.uk/ |
| Hand made Celtic and Scottish Jewellery, Katunayake, Creagorry, |
|Isle of Benbecula, Outer Hebrides HS7 5PG Kingdom of Scotland |
|Tel:44 1870 602677 Fax:44 1870 602956 Mobile:44 85-005-9162 |


#4

Hi Kerry and everyone else. I picked up a kitchen stove hood at a
sale from a home supply place. Discontinued model cut a six inch
hole and stuck the duct work out through it. I had to climb up on
a ladder to put the outside rain shield over it since it was on
the second floor. The power line for the lights and fan I ran
inside the wall to an outlet that was below it. I had to cut a
hole in the sheet rock so that I could drill a hole in the fire
stop in the wall. I can patch sheet rock and repaint. A new set
of lungs is hard to grow. When I sit down at the bench the fan is
switched on there is a damper in it that closes unless the fan
is going. Kerry for your site I would look into a vertical pipe
with one of the hoods that swings around to point into the wind
so that the opening is down wind. Look in a stove supply place. A
six inch diameter stainless steel stove pipe guyed off with wire
can be run up to a fair height above the base fairly cheaply.
Look for some one who sells coal stoves they should have the
pipe and dampers. You do lose some heat out of it but that means
the fumes in the room are going also. If you use one of the hoods
on the outside you will probably get a strong enough draft out of
it so that you won’t need an electric fan in the hood.

I just made a deal on an old rock saw today that will let me cut
18 inch diameter stones. That will enable me to cut 1/4 inch
slabs out of rose quartz and lepidolite that I have been wanting
to use.

I also set up with a new ISP and will be getting a new address
and setting up a web site this winter.

Lots of things to do and less money. Oh well, it feels good when
I finish a step. Orchid has definitely been a help.


#5

Kerry- the website for Crafts Reports is
http://www.craftsreport.com Someone mentioned that they had an
article on shop hazards and may have some other resources to
check out as well.


#6

Hi Edwin et al,

That kitchen stove hood was the kind of thing I had in mind also
but it breaks my heart to make a hole in the roof when the
weather is so bad here that the driving rain is bound to get in
and I spend most of my time trying to eliminate draughts. I
guess I’ll probably build what I would call a “fume cupboard”…
Getting the glass is a problem here because mostly everywhere is
double-glazed and those units are too expensive to turn into a
fume cupboard… I’ll think on it though.

I’ve been using batteries and chargers to do my
electro-stripping so far but I’ve now assembled enough bits and
pieces to build myself a 35 Amp. 0 to 12volts DC power supply. I
don’t actually know the best current or voltage for
electro-stripping although I do heat the bath to 65 degC (about
150F)…

I just made a deal on an old rock saw today that will let me cut
18 inch diameter stones. That will enable me to cut 1/4 inch
slabs out of rose quartz and lepidolite that I have been wanting
to use.

Wow! That’s a big piece of rough or perhaps, because I know
nothing about it, I just think it’s big…

I look forward to seeing your website when it’s done… Will you
be maintaining it yourself?

Lots of things to do and less money. Oh well, it feels good when
I finish a step. Orchid has definitely been a help.

You and I together Edwin… I know what it’s like…

Kind regards,

Kerry
| Website - http://www.bennie.demon.co.uk/ |
| Hand made Celtic and Scottish Jewellery, Katunayake, Creagorry, |
|Isle of Benbecula, Outer Hebrides HS7 5PG Kingdom of Scotland |
|Tel:44 1870 602677 Fax:44 1870 602956 Mobile:44 85-005-9162 |


#7
  Also, a little about Potassium cyanide would be useful.  I
have a data sheet that tells me how lethal it is and how it can
give off hydrogen cyanide and it also talks of lethal doses
etc. What about non-lethal doses ie: Is it a cumlative poison
or will my body deal with accidental non-lethal doses over a
long time period? 

One of the wonderful aspects of the human body is its ability
to dispose of dangerouse chemicals , and one of those is cyanide.
Your body will dispose of a nearly lethal dose in less than 24
hours. A really good source for the effects of cyanide on the
body is the papers from the Sante Fe symposium. Many relevant
safety issues are discussed every year. The books and or tapes
are available through Rio Grande.

Ray


#8

http://www.craftsreport.com Someone mentioned that they had an
article on shop hazards and may have some other resources to
check out as well.

Thank you for the URL… I’ll check them out in a few minutes…

Regards,

Kerry
| Website - http://www.bennie.demon.co.uk/ |
| Hand made Celtic and Scottish Jewellery, Katunayake, Creagorry, |
|Isle of Benbecula, Outer Hebrides HS7 5PG Kingdom of Scotland |
|Tel:44 1870 602677 Fax:44 1870 602956 Mobile:44 85-005-9162 |


#9
    Your body will dispose of a nearly lethal dose in less
than 24 hours.  A really good source for the effects of cyanide
on the body is the papers  from the Sante Fe symposium.

hi ray, i know you told me that before but somehow it got pushed
out by some other info. after years of being told by others that
it was accumalative, i’m relieved to know it’s not. tell a lie
often enough and people start believing it.

best regards,

geo fox


#10

Hello Ray,

I am most grateful for your posting regarding the long-term
implications of exposure to cyanide. It makes mee feel a whole lot
better (ripping off protective clothing)… No, not really… I’m
too much of a coward to take any risks with it but I’m pleased to
know that small non-lethal doses are not cumlative. The only
thing I know about the effects on the human body, is what the
doctor told me in passing. She said something about enzymes, I
was in a hurry and wasn’t paying close attention. Sheesh!

Thanks Ray…

Regards,

Kerry

| Website - http://www.bennie.demon.co.uk/ |
| Hand made Celtic and Scottish Jewellery, Katunayake, Creagorry, |
|Isle of Benbecula, Outer Hebrides HS7 5PG Kingdom of Scotland |
|Tel:44 1870 602677 Fax:44 1870 602956 Mobile:44 85-005-9162 |