Selecting power assisted hand engravers

Jewelry Discussion
41 
I am new at this, but here goes. I am pretty much a self taught
metalsmith and jewelry designer; at the present I am interested in
expanding my skills by doing some engraving. I am interested in
purchasing a power assisted hand engraver, either the GRS
GraverMach AT or the Foredom PowerGraver 2293. I would appreciate
some opinions from experienced engravers as to which one I should
get. Thank you in advance for your advise.

In reading over the posts on this thread I noticed that no one fully
answered your original question about the GRS system compared to the
Foredom system.

Your question boils down to these two choices; an electric motor
with a dedicated hammer hand piece, versus an air powered hammer
handpiece. I haven’t used the Foredom PowerGraver, but I have
experience with a flexshaft and hammer hand piece (several different
ones) that I would assume would be very similar. I also have a GRS
system and a Lindsay Air Graver. For brute hammering and metal
removal, the Foredom system would probably be the strongest, followed
by the GRS, then the Lindsay.

For finesse, the Lindsay has the edge over the GRS (in my very
humble opinion), but both probably have it hands down on the Foredom,
mainly due to its handpiece design. The handpieces of both the GRS
and Lindsay are mushroom handled gravers with an almost identical
feel to a hand graver, in fact, lift your foot and either one IS a
handgraver. The handpiece of the Foredom appears to be similar to the
first air powered handpiece, the GRS GraverMeister, which came out in
the early seventies, if memory serves me right.

The problem with that handpiece design is that the hose or cable
comes in through the very end of the handpiece, right where your palm
ought to be. It makes holding and using it as a graver very awkward,
nearly impossible even, and partially explains why so many old-school
engravers dislike the air powered tools so much. First impressions
can be that lasting.

The big question you were asking (I think) is whether an air powered
handpiece is a better investment than the Foredom. I would say yes,
it is, especially if engraving is your primary motivation.

I use a Lindsay Air Graver. It is probably the most used tool on my
bench, there is rarely a piece I work on that I don’t use it
somewhere. Before the Lindsay, I used a Graver Max and used it every
bit as hard as the Lindsay. An air powered graver is an almost
indispensable bench tool once you start using one, even if you never
engrave a single line. If it were my choice and the difference
between two grand (don’t forget the compressor) and $400 wasn’t a
major issue, I’d take the air graver over a hammer hand piece in a
heart beat.

You have to decide what you are going to use it for and how much you
can afford. It may be that a new hammer handpiece for your flexshaft,
a few hand gravers, some Chinese white, a block or something to hold
the work in or on, a stone and sharpening jig, a couple of pads of
tracing paper and a nice drafting pencil might be your best
investment. If you have decided to get into engraving and want to use
power, use air if there is any way you can, and look into the Lindsay
as well as the GraverMach. They appear similar by casual observation,
but they are very different in both design and operation.

Steve Lindsay also offers sharpening jigs and stones in sets that
are pretty slick (non-powered in case you were wondering). They can
flatten out the learning curve of sharpening pretty quickly and let
you keep the finesse of hand sharpening intact. GRS is another great
company that offers pretty much anything you would ever need when it
comes to engraving (except Lindsay’s stuff of course).

Good luck Marie.
Dave Phelps

42 
I have seen videos with him cutting. And he takes shortcuts with
his cutting technique. You can convince yourself of that if you
watch attentively. Engraving requires cutting either clockwise, or
counter- clockwise. Cutting in both direction is considered in bad
taste. What how he cuts letters like "s" and you see shall see it.
Sorry for puncturing this bubble.

Don’t worry, my bubble remains intact. But now I’m confused, Leonid.
You’ve been telling us that true hand engraving produces superior
results. Now you’re telling us that the difference you see is in
whether your idea of ettiquette is being observed? Myself, I always
thought the idea was to judge the quality of the work, not so much
whether the method was polite or not. If indeed you’re concerned with
“taste” in the method, now I wonder whether such manners are regional
or cultural, like language accents and cultural differences in
what’s considered proper or not. Are these manners you refer to
something specific to your Russian training?

Frankly, I find it a bit of a stretch that you’re criticising Steves
engraving based on which direction he cuts an S and that you find
this in bad taste. The power graver, by removing some of the need for
absolute rigidity in the hands controlling the block and the graver,
makes it easier to achieve similar results symetrically, not needing
to observe absolute right or left handedness. This does not negate
the possible quality obained. You state one can cut in either
direction, but your objection is to mixing them. If Steve mixes
directions because his skill and the tool allow him to take such
shortcuts, this only reflects on exactly that, his skill and
familiarity with his work and technique, and the advantages in speed
and flexibility which his tools give him. I’m sure he’d be mortified
to here that his method offends you, but I’m pretty sure you’re the
only one who feels that way.

Tell me, do your engraving ethics also require the engraver to
always be wearing a suit and necktie as well? (there was a time when
many workshops in the industry did require such formality in dress of
their workers…) What about thos women in the engraving field? Are
they required to wear dresses long enough to cover those scandelous
ankles, and high enough to hide that naked neckline? (Both Victorian
ideas of proper dress for ladies…)

I find, looking at Steve’s engraving, that the styles of lettering
he uses and is capable of are very varied and generally exhibit
consistency in style and design, standards I learned long ago in the
field of calligraphy, which encourages now and then, a bit of
creativity and originality in letter design if the calligrapher (or
engraver) chooses to express it, and the result works. And frankly,
The examples of lettering you see on his site are minor in
difficulty when compared to his much more complex and exacting
decorative work, but from what I see, I find nothing objectionable in
his lettering either.

Do be aware that the videos he’s posted are intended more to show
what his tool can do, and are engraved with the added fuss and bother
of needing to have cameras and lighting set up, as well as fitting
the desired task into the desired (usually short) time constraings.
All of this may affect to some minor degree, the methods he uses. And
as to those videos, how are you sure that his use of both right and
left handed cutting is not an error, but to demonstrate that with his
tool, it IS possible to mix directions and retain control of the
process?

Ok. I meant to reply with a simple paragraph, and it’s turned into a
book. Sorry about that. That’s one of my failings (though some
readers seem, oddly enough, to appreciate it…) Oh, and no doubt,
you’d find lots of faults in the way I myself use a graver, either
manual ones or with a power handpiece. But then, I don’t present
myself as an expert engraver either. But I’ve done a lot of jewelry
that includes the use of gravers in one capacity or another, and
generally, people (including those in the industry) usually seem
happy with the results. Perhaps this just means their standards are
not up to yours. No doubt lucky for me…

Peter

43 
What I want to know is how is it became about me.

Unfortunately Leonid, you always seem to make it about you. Your
responses to posts are virtually always written as though they are
law rather than opinion. You are clearly convinced that you are
always right (which obviously you are on occasion). Your manner is
extremely confrontational and frankly at times sounds like you are
putting down the OP and anyone who agrees with them. I know you enjoy
a good debate, as do the rest of us, but I feel that at times you
take it too far, as though you’re ridiculing people.

There are times when people write opinions and remarks which are a
little confrontational or a bit “close to the bone”, and they often
are censored and do not make it to the list, so I am often astounded
that so many of your posts do appear. However, I must admit that
when I see your name on a post, I always read it - maybe it’s that
bit in me (that we all have) that’s a bit sensationalist), thinking
“ooh, what’s he got to say this time?”. I think you like the effect
you have, ie to gets eyes rolling and heads shaking.

Helen
UK