Hi,
any new news on solder for brass?
i have been searching the archives…
julie
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Is this what you’re looking for? Rio Grande sells this:
Sheet Solder for Brass, Bronze, Copper and Yellow Gold-Filled
Item No. 503052
or this:
Brass Wire Solder, 20-Ga.
Item No. 132201
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I have it and can’t get it to work with any of the fluxes that I use…Rob
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I use the brass wire solder from Rio, and it works for me! It’s still pretty tin color, but not as contrasting as silver solder. I usually use cupronil without too much problem? But it does take a while to melt and can get globby if you use big chunks. I use smaller pieces spread more frequently than I need to with silver.
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I have soldered copper to brass with reasonable success. But I still get that silvery solder look at the joint. I think my memory has me getting the best results using my old Presto torch using a bigger flame with two tinned surfaces. Batterns flux on the copper and boric/alcohol on the brass with H-45 solder. The metals have come from general sources. Usually the copper is 10ga electrical wire and the brass 1/8” x 48” is from the bulk metals racks at Lowe’s. I have used coiled copper and brass wire from Rio with the same fluxes but a Smith small torch.
I am setting up for a show near Louisville this weekend but when I get back home on Tuesday I’ll do some experimenting and take notes.
Don
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Sometimes in special circumstances on smaller joints, I’ve used 8 kt easy solder to solder brass. It’s not a good color match, but at least it’s yellow and it solders nicely. Of course, I bought 8 kt solder way before gold jumped to $4000+ per ounce. Now 8 kt easy solder is almost $90 per dwt.
Another thing that I’ve done sometimes to cover up the white silver solder line on brass is to copperplate the brass with steel and pickle. Again, that’s not a great color match, but at least it’s not white. It makes the brass be kind of a pink bronze color, that accepts a liver of sulfur patina.
Hope that helps!
Jeff
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Have you tried any of the brazing alloys sold for industrial applications?
Here’s McMaster-Carr’s page:
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I design copper and brass jewelry to keep my joints to a minimum and use silver solder and lots of paste flux. I tell customers via signage and conversation that they will see small silver lines where the soldered joints are located. These joints are very hard to see on polished brass, but more obvious on copper. They also don’t color as well if using LOS. I have not tried brazing alloys as suggested by Elliot and others, but they may be an option. Gold solder is not an option because of the cost. Jeff’s suggestion of copper plating in pickle is interesting and I will try it out. I posted a picture of some copper cuff bracelets that I have been working on in another thread. They will be going to a retail store today with signage indicating that there will be small lines of silver solder. The challenge, at least to me, is how to price them. I reformated my pricing formula making changes in the material cost from that of silver to copper using the recent price of a lb. of 10 gauge copper wire. The final price of copper jewelry works out to about 60% the price of silver using the silver spot today (51.52) and keeping all other elements of cost the same for both metals. Now let’s see if I can sell them for that. In the end, for me, copper and brass are very nice metals to work in and have their own aesthetic appeal. They also give me the chance to work on heavy pieces of metal the way that I would on a regular basis back when the silver spot was, pick a number, say $8 in 2005…Rob
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Hi Elliott,
While pursuing the archives, I noticed quite a few comments recommending brazing alloys…may i ask what a “brazing alloy” is in terms of how is it similar or different from “solder”…?…is there a need for special types of flux?…someone had mentioned “Black Flux”…
I was kind of intimidated by these “new to me” terms…
Anyone else have the knowledge too?
Julie
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It is pretty much the same, but brazing is above 450 Centigrade and Solder below.
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I tried to join copper and brass wire with a simple butt joint using the method I described in an earlier post. While tinning the ends was a success tho very time consuming actually soldering the two ends together was a failure. The only difference in the process described was here in Indiana I have an ORCA EZ torch and back home I have a Smith Little Torch or two and a Prestolite plumbers torch. I don’t know if there has been a study of at which speed diferent metals come up to temp for soldering but I would like to see one. I have soldered 10ga. sterling with the ORCA but to be fair I have never tried this two metal process with the ORCA before now. Further experimentation will have to wait until next week.
Don
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hmmm…i wonder if the 450c point is referring to solders used with soldering irons…versus silver solders and a torch…
julie
silver solder:
brass solders:
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I just talked to my local welding supplier and they sell Safety Silv - 5. This is 45% silver and a yet to be determined mix of other metals. The McMaster Carr filter for brass and copper brazing filters down to an alloy that they call BAG-5. It is also 45% silver. Either way, it is $75 investment in a brazing wire that may or may not work. If anyone has experience with it, please share it. Thanks…Rob
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I do not think any soldering iron will get that high. It will be a dull red if there’s not much light in the room.
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I guess most of the soldering done with jewelry will be classified as brazing.
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I have used a version of this for 20 years or so (when silver was cheaper). It works well for brass. I also use it for some copper where a thin line is ok. Another option I used is the flux coated brass foot long rods like the Bernzomatic WB5 Bronze Flux Coated Brazing/Welding Rod (1600 degree melt) from Amazon, Ace Hardware etc. Search Amazon for brass brazing rod.
marlin
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Thanks for your reply. If I can find a smaller, less expensive, amount to try, I will and report what I find. At 45% silver, this stuff is expensive for an experiment right now…Rob
Silver and gold “solders” are technically brazing alloys. Solders, strictly speaking, are what jewelers tend to call “soft solder,” the tin-lead or other tin-based, low-heat alloys used in plumbing, tinsmithing, electronics and similar trades.
The difference between soldering and brazing is that soldering is a purely mechanical connection whereas brazing has an alloying feature.
This is why soft soldering will not hold together two highly polished surfaces, but brazing will.
The Wikipedia article has a good description of this:
”For successful wetting, the base metal must be at least partially soluble in at least one component of the brazing alloy. The molten alloy therefore tends to attack the base metal and dissolve it, slightly changing its composition in the process. The composition change is reflected in the change of the alloy’s melting point and the corresponding change of fluidity. For example, some alloys dissolve both silver and copper; dissolved silver lowers their melting point and increases fluidity, copper has the opposite effect.
“The melting point change can be exploited. As the remelt temperature can be increased by enriching the alloy with dissolved base metal, step brazing using the same braze can be possible.”
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Hi Elliott,
Ah! ok! i understand the difference now! thank you!
julie
Hi,
I found these older posts…great information! I thought I would share.
Julie
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