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Scroll saw for metal?


#1

I searched this topic and found references to a possible Bonny Doon
model back in 2005. Does anyone know if there is a metal cutting
scroll saw designed for jewelers/metalsmiths?

If not, would a scroll saw like this
http://tinyurl.com/2vuxka

outfitted with the right blades, work?

Kirsten
http://knitsteel.com


#2

Yes, it’s the New Concept Saw by Bonny Doon. Expensive, but folks say
it works very well.

Elaine


#3

Hi Kirsten

I searched this topic and found references to a possible Bonny Doon
model back in 2005. Does anyone know if there is a metal cutting
scroll saw designed for jewelers/metalsmiths? 

Proxxon would be the closest I suppose, the blade clamp is a wing
nut.

There are several that would work, you will find one on the Rio
Grande Site, Proxxon, Delta also makes one, these are in addition to
your finding. The one I use is the Delta Shopmaster.

To be useful the saw must have an adjustable blade tension (which
nearly all do) and accept non-pinned blades, I cannot tell if the
DeWalt accepts non-pinned blades. The Proxxon has a 200 stroke lower
limit, the DeWalt 400 and the Delta is totally variable from nearly 0
to the max speed of around 2000 spm.

For me the Delta meets all the requirements and clean up and
recovery of metal has been very easy, there is a small area under the
blade that captures the swarf in a cup. The Delta also uses a
rotating clamping lever to hold the blade. I have used blades as
small as a 6/0, and as large as 2 to cut 1/4 inch copper. I have had
this saw for about 1.5 to 2 years.

A few hints on operation, reduce your feed rate to limit the size of
the jagged edges on the back of the cut. They will hang in the
transition space between the insert and the rest of the table. Lock
the bottom of the blade first and then the top, it is easier to
align. Expect to play with it a bit no matter which one you get.

Hope this helps.
Terry


#4

Scroll saws are made for cutting wood. Since they are designed for
cutting wood up to the size of a 2x4, the stroke is limited to about
5/8". This varies a little depending upon the manufacturer. A
standard jewelers blade has 2-1/2" of teeth. Using only 5/8" of the
blade seems wasteful. Also, since the blade is moving way too fast
over a very short distance, the blade heats up and loses temper and
dulls rapidly. The heating of the blade means that you cannot use
the saw for cutting plastics. Plastics simply melt and weld
themselves to the blade.

Since they are for wood, slow speed is not important and most of
them have only two speeds. The slow speed is way too fast for blade
life and control of the workpiece, and the fast speed is simply out
of the question. Most of them require wrenches to tighten the blade
clamp (and what is the most frequently lost or misplaced item?)

Many of the scroll saws do not have built-in safety in the event
that the blade breaks. The broken stub of the blade can either
damage the workpiece, or even worse, drive itself into your finger!
Let me tell you, in the event that this occurs, the decision process
gets pretty dicey having to decide whether to push or pull.

For all of the above reasons, I decided to design and build a saw
that is specifically for cutting metal. It addresses every one of
the problems listed above, with several features that have never
before been available to the jeweler. For example:

The speeds are from zero to 120 strokes a minute and use the full
2-1/2" of the blade.

Daniel Brush is cutting filagree patterns in 1/8" thick stainless
steel, and he just sent me this email:

Every time I’m with the saw I say the same thing to Olivia, my wife.
I frankly don’t think I could make these pieces without this saw-not
because of the time-but because of the smooth delivery. Cutting
stainless by hand is like an ice breaker going through Alaskan
waters, I imagine-choppy and irregular. This saw eliminates the
inconsistency, and lets me cut a nice swath through the very mean
waters.

None of the scroll saws provide support for the back of the blade at
the point where the sawing occurs. The blade acts like the string of
a bow as you push the metal into it. This constant flexing stresses
the blade, causing premature failure. The Knew Concepts saw has a
carbide support just below the bench pin, and another one just above
the metal. As a result, there is almost no flexing of the blade in
this critical area. Take a look at the video of the saw in action at
www.knewconcepts.com. There is also a pdf of the instructions for
the saw that show all of the details.

Repetitive blade tensioning is handled by simply pushing a lever at
the upper rear of the frame. It is fully adjustable with a knurled
knob. Since the blade drive mechanism is a cable, the blade completes
the circle. When the blade breaks, the cable cannot push or pull the
blade, and even though your reactions may not stop instantly, the
broken blade cannot do anything except retract, doing no damage to
either you or the workpiece.

If you have occasion to cut metal at an angle (such as making a
blanking die) scroll saws require that you tilt the table. With the
Knew Concepts Saw, the saw frame tilts up to 45 degrees in both
directions simply by loosening a lever at the rear of the saw.

Scroll saws are BIG and require their own stand which takes up
valuable floor space in your studio. The Knew Concepts Saw clamps to
the edge of your bench with two hand knobs and is removed when you
are finished sawing. It can be hung on the wall until needed.

I could go on, but you get the idea. I design equipment for jewelers
and metalsmiths. I understand your needs. If you consider the
functionality, the total support from a product that is made here in
the U.S. and used by Jim Binnion, Cynthia Eid, Phil Poirier, Daniel
Brush (who has two of them), and others, you will easily come to the
conclusion that there is simply nothing else out there that meets
your needs as well as the Knew Concept Saw.

Lee Marshall
www.knewconcepts.com


#5

http://knewconcepts.com

"Jewelery fabrication equipment for the discriminating individual.
“Buy once, buy well.” Every item here is designed and manufactured by
Lee Marshall, world renowned designer of the original Bonny Doon
Hydraulic Press.

Every item is made in the U.S. with full backup for every product. My
approach to design is that all improvements are “backward compatable"
to the older product. That way, you the customer, are always
supported throughout the life cycle of anything that you buy from
us.”


#6
I searched this topic and found references to a possible Bonny
Doon model back in 2005. Does anyone know if there is a metal
cutting scroll saw designed for jewelers/metalsmiths? 

There is such a saw - it is Rio Grande item 115062. You can see it
online in the rio catalog. It is called the new concept saw. I have
used one, it works. I am impressed that Daniel Brush thinks highly
of it Internationally Acclaimed Goldsmith DANIEL BRUSH said:

"The New Concept Saw, designed by Lee Marshall, added a new
dimension to my work. Now I dream about what is possible with
intricate sawing. This tool provides total control and better
finish than my hand sawing technique, all along with a most
poetic machine sound. I liked it so much after months of usage, I
just bought another one for a different location in the studio". 

It is a darn expensive tool and worth every penny.

Judy Hoch, GG


#7

Thanks so much for the details Lee and for the recommendations from
everyone else. The details answered many questions that I couldn’t
find answered elsewhere. The saw is definitely what I want, so I’m
going to build it into my 2008 budget.

Kirsten Skiles
http://knitsteel.blogspot.com


#8

Lee, your write up makes me want to buy this tool although at the
moment I don’t have a need for it,

For those not familiar with Daniel Brush’s work see: “Daniel Brush:
Gold without Boundaries” (title?). His work is pretty impressive.

KPK


#9

I have bought and tried several of the woodworking type saws for use
on metal. To have any success at all it must be a DC motor type with
the variable speed so that you can get the blade speed down low
enough. But all the woodworking saws have several serious limitations
when it comes to cutting metal. The biggest one is the short stroke
3/4" it typical this wears out the blade rapidly. Second long arms
often with two pivot points mean a very springy, loose frame that
will set up harmonic vibration in the blade that will cause blade
failure. Third the blade moves in an arc rather than straight up and
down this also limits accuracy and blade life.

The New Concept saw from Lee Marshall is a true metal cutting saw
that allows tremendous precision and control in difficult to cut
materials. I am extremely happy with mine. Also if you are familiar
with Daniel Brush’s work he is a customer of Lee’s and here is what
Daniel had to say.

"The New Concept Saw, designed by Lee Marshall, added a new
dimension to my work. Now I dream about what is possible with
intricate sawing. This tool provides total control and better
finish than my hand sawing technique, all along with a most
poetic machine sound. I liked it so much after months of usage, I
just bought another one for a different location in the studio". 

http://knewconcepts.com/new-concept-electric-saw.html 

If you are looking at a tool that you will use regularly I would
stay away from the woodworkers saws and buy the one from Lee.

A disclaimer here: Lee is a friend of mine so I want him to succeed
with these tools but when it comes to my work and hard earned money
I don’t let friendship interfere, and I bought one of these saws for
my studio.

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#10

That New Concept Saw is a fine piece of machinery. I have used one
and it is perfect in every way!!! I suggest it to anyone. I cuts
perfectly every time.

Susan
http://web.mac.com/SusanThornton