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Saw piercing


#1

Digest Message: Re: Saw piercing

Beginning of thread: 

http://www.ganoksin.com/orchid/archive/9809/msg00737.htmFrom: jica@mcn.org

Hi Dave,

I have often had that thought about an air nozzle to blow off
the sawing dust. I haven’t done that, but I’ve made this odd
little tool that fits on my left index finger. It’s comprised of
a piece of plastic tubing that fits on the finger with the
bottom part of a small artist’s brush attached that I use like a
small broom to keep the dust at bay. What do other people do?
Good luck.

From: Loveland drewblanc@earthlink.net

  I end up almost hyperventilating from blowing the dust off
every few strokes. 

I can sympathize with that. After many dizzying bouts at the pin
I grabbed an old soft paint brush and hold it in the hand that I
am using to hold the piece. With some practice I was soon able to
take a quick sweep with the brush with hardly a break in the
sawing. This is especially helpful when I over lube the blade and
the dust turns to mud.

Hope this helps
Jim Loveland

From: Erik Tyme eriktyme@earthlink.net

  one thing about sawing thats always bugged me
alot is  that while sawing the dust obliterates the line you're
sawing n a few strokes and I end up almost hyperventilating
from  blowing the dust off every few strokes. I thought of even
 making something to  blow air on the saw while sawing, anyone
got some tips about this? 

I solved this problem by keeping a 1" paint brush next to me
while sawing and taking a moment every now and then to brush the
metal dust aside lightly so it falls into the thin leather sheet
laying on my lap. I save the dust and instead of selling it as
waste, I make solid balls for decoration elements on my jewelry.
It is more valuable to me this way.

Erik Tyme
Hand-Fabrication Art Jeweler
Seattle, Wa.
http://www.eriktyme.com

From: “Curtis Harmon” charmon@gower.net

Dave, I never blow on anything. I learned basic repair work
very clear that moisture from your mouth is no good for your
tools. But, when you blow on a piece, the saw dust ($$) goes
everywhere. I use an old toothbrush for all my bench sweeping.
I take the time to stop, every few strokes and sweep the dust
into my catch box, which I position under my project to catch
same. This also forces me to take my time in my sawing, which
enables me to actually wear out blades, instead of breaking them
(most of the time!). Curtis

From: Amery Elizabeth Carriere carriere@almaak.usc.edu

dave, why don’t you try holding one of those little battery
operated fans in your mouth while sawing?

Ha, ha… i’m serious! you get 'em at novelity/toy shops,
they’re about 2-3 inches long. Lots of people bring them to
sporting events if they’re going to be sitting in the hot sun.

try it…

From: ASleep220@aol.com

Alan. I tried that loose blade thing once myself and went
directly back to a high tension setting for all the same
reasons that you stated Al.

From: Richard Whitehouse rich@rw.clara.net

The blade should cut through the metal smoothly. If it snatches
it is probably too course a blade for the thickness of metal.
More teeth per inch means smoother cutting.

Richard Whitehouse
Silversmith & Jeweller

From: Richard Whitehouse rich@rw.clara.net

I would have thought that having a loose blade would certainly
shorten the life of considerably as they are made from quite
hard steel. I think if any pressure were put on a loose blade it
would break

From: Regalite2@aol.com

Yes, but too tight is not good either. If the blade is too tight
, it won’t “track” properly. You will find that it will not cut a
straight line. It is an acquired skill…


#2
one thing about sawing thats always bugged me alot is that while
sawing the dust obliterates the line you're sawing in a few
strokes anyone got some tips about
this?  

G’day Dave. Of course I have, and you knew that. Well, you
probably guessed. Long ago I got fed up with this puffing billy
business. I bought an El Cheepo (magnetic type) aquarium
aerating pump, fastened it under my bench, ran a 3mm RUBBER tube
up and through a little hole in the back of my bench. Why rubber?
because the plastic (PVC) tubing sold for aquaria is not
flexible enough whereas that size in rubber doesn’t restrict
movement. I attached a length of 3mm brass Modeller’s thin wall
tubing to my saw frame with copper wire at intervals, bending it
(after annealing) around the saw frame so that it blew a gentle
but steady stream of air right down on the cutting position.

I also use a powerful woodworking jigsaw with much coarser
blades than any jeweller would dream of; it has made an awful
lot of wooden puzzles for local Playcentres and kindergartens.
This too has it’s very own aquarium pump connected in parallel
with the motor, so it does it’s thing as the saw is started. OK,
so the little rubber air chamber on the pump perishes ( as is
the way with all rubber) but one can usually buy components for
a couple of dollars, or even a new pump for less than $10.
Wouldn’t be without 'em! Cheers (said I’d be back)

       / \
     /  /
   /  /                                
 /  /__| \      @John_Burgess2
(______ )       

At sunny Nelson NZ


#3

Hi Dave, I used to hold a straw in my mouth to direct a puff of
air at the area to blow away the filings, but I use another
device now whenever there is to be prolonged piercing. I got a
small electric bubbler, the kind used in fish tanks which,at that
time cost about three dollars, and I attached some plastic tubing
to the outlet and then directed the tube at the area,
temporarily, anchoring it in position, and that effectively
cleared the line for sawing. Hope that helps. Joe


#4
    one thing about sawing thats always bugged me alot is that
while sawing the dust obliterates the line you're sawing in a
few strokes... 

Hi Dave, I’ve switched to using a Stabilo pencil for piercing
lines… It’s a wax pencil used for drawing on glass, metal,
plastic etc… and since it’s wax (and its blue , so a nice color
diff from the metals ) the metal shavings will stick to it and
actually help show the line. The Stabilo is encased in wood, just
like a regular pencil and will hold a good point. HTH, Terry Swift


#5
      one thing about sawing thats always bugged me alot is 
that while sawing the dust obliterates the line you're sawing n
a few strokes and I end up almost hyperventilating from 
blowing the dust off every few strokes. I thought of even
making something to  blow air on the saw while sawing, anyone
got some tips about this? 

For really delicate piercing where the dust is an annoyance, I
sometimes put my torch tip in a third hand, and position it so
that with only the oxygen turned on, I get a small jet of oxygen
from a small tip, right where it’s needed to just manage to keep
the dust to one side. Takes very little gas flow to do that, and
is a lot easier than blowing with the mouth or stopping to dust
off…

Peter Rowe


#6

Hi Dave -

One of the things I have done if I’m going to be doing a lot of
sawing is to darken the area surrounding the sawline with black
permanent magic marker & then to scratch out the sawline
(lightly) with a sharp point. Somehow, the lines show up better,
even with filings all around.

Laura
lwiesler@worldnet.att.net


#7

Namaste! Has anyone tried sawing with the handle held upside
down ? I mean the saw blade held below the handle and the handle
is manoevred from above the job to be sawed. This way the saw
dust does not fall on the hand which is above the job. Remember
not to force the saw on the return stroke, as the blades are
made at an angle to cut only on the forward stroke.

Happy festival spirits from the City of Joy with the Mother
Goddess Durga on her way back home to Heaven!!


#8

Namaste! Has anyone tried sawing with the handle held upside down?
I had a student in 85 who came from Asia. He was not a beginner
when he started the course and he was holding his frame like
this. It seems to be a good position but after 1 year of classes
he started to change and began to saw like we do. May be I am
wrong but I think this method is well-known in Asia. Vincent Guy
Audette


#9

Greetings from down under in the land of the KIWI’S. A few years
ago on a trip to England we stopped of for three days in Hong
Kong where we had a chance to go through one of the jewellery
manufactures there. While walking through the workshops we saw
the bench jewellers using the piercing saw with the handle being
held above the work. So you are quite right Guy.

I have tried using it that way but find that your hand always
seems to be in the wrong place.

Best wishes.

Major Boyce @pyramid

The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do.

EVERYBODY has a talent. What is rare is the courage to follow that talent to
the dark place where it leads.


#10

Dear Guy Audette, I too have noticed that a significant
proportion of our Asian born students in Australia use the saw
frame with great skill - with the handle held uppermost. To my
eyes it still looks quite strange, but there is no denying the
skilled precision which results. Kind regards, Rex from Oz


#11
I also use a powerful woodworking jigsaw with much coarser
blades than any jeweller would dream of;   it has made an awful
lot of wooden puzzles for local Playcentres and kindergartens.  
This too has it's very own aquarium pump connected in parallel
with the motor, so it does it's thing as the saw is started. OK,
so the little rubber air chamber on the pump perishes ( as is
the way with all rubber)  but one can usually buy components for
a couple of dollars, or even a new pump for less than $10.   
Wouldn't be without 'em!   

(Disclaimer: I do handcraft hobbies including cutting thin
sheet metal but not jewelry work so I can’t speak with any
authority on jeweller’s methods).

I had been following this tread about hand sawing and the finess
of the saw blade for some time and what struck me was the
absence of an electrically operated bench type scroll saw for
this rather routine job. I haven’t come across such a saw in
your trade catalogues either.

A decent electrical bench type scroll saw can be bought for $100
to $150 from any hardware store and the only difference I can
see is that the saw baldes are thicker and coarser than
jeweler’s type saw blades and they have cross pins near the
ends. As jewelers it shouldn’t be too difficult for you to
drill holes for small pins or weld a bead to be placed at the
ends of the saw blade so that the electric scroll saw blade
holder can hold and tension a jeweler’s saw blade. A power
scroll saw table provides a firm support and leaves both hand
free to guide the workpiece resulting in precision cuts with
less fatigue.

Kelvin Mok (klmok@shaw.wave.ca)
Home: (403) 463-4099 | Home FAX: (403) 430-7120


#12

I have read that either Asians or Indians (India that is) sit on
the ground and have very low work tables. The handle in the air
instead of down, makes it easier saw.

Marilyn Smith


#13

The small vary speed scroll saws work ok but they have a short
stroke resulting in only use of a small segment of the blade.
This causes shorter blade life than you may want. I used one of
these for a while then learned that the old hand frame used
properly works better. blade life is better and I can use broken
sections in my adjustable frame saw. Jesse


#14
   ...I had been following this tread about hand sawing and
the finess of the saw blade for some time and what struck me
was the absence of an electrically operated bench type scroll
saw for this rather routine job.  I haven't come across such a
saw in your trade catalogues either... 

Kelvin,

I think that you will find that the sawblades we use, which are
as thin as .15mm, would not stand up to the rigors of power saws.
In order to cut the minute detail that many of us incorporate
into jewelry, they are only about twice as deep as they are wide,
which leaves no room for drilling a retainer hole.

Hope this explains why we still use the seemingly archaic method
of hand sawing. Now, if you want to discuss laser cutting…

Sharon Z.


#15

G’day; My power jig-saw takes only the very coarse blades with
pins at each end, which as I mentioned in a previous note are
quite useless for cutting thin sheet metal. I have contrived
fastenings for the fine jeweller’s blades, but using them means
that the pin-fastenings have to be completely removed for
replacement by the fine blade holders. Which is a pain. (and I’m
a lazy blighter) There is another problem though, in that the
saw’s motor is of the type which have a fixed speed, and there is
no way to alter this other than putting in a different motor
capable of speed variation via a foot control - like a sewing
machine.

I mention all this as a warning to folk who are contemplating
buying a motorised jigsaw (scroll saw) to make certain that it
can take unpinned blades and that it has continuously variable
speeds. When one has particularly intricate piercings to do it
is very helpful if the speed can be controlled to very slow
whilst the blade is cutting. I bought my scroll saw in a bit of
a hurry, and for use with wood and coarse blades. However, I made
a scrollsaw mostly in wood and junk using an old sewing machine
motor ($12.50, complete with foot control) and still use that
for thin metal sheet piercing. Looks horribly crude but has
worked well for 10 years, and I use 8/0 blades frequently. Like
I said, the bought machine is used exclusively for cutting wood
up to 1 inch thick. Cheers,

       / \
     /  /
   /  /                                
 /  /__| \      @John_Burgess2
(______)       

At sunny Nelson NZ


#16

A commercial electric scroll saw for lapidaries and metalsmiths
is the Cuti-Pi by Covington (I believe). They’re expensive, but
hold up for decades of heavy use. Perhaps Donna in Wyoming will
enlighten us, as she recently purchased one and seems to be quite
fond of it. K.P.


#17

Regarding scroll saws for jewelers: I saw two scroll saws
advertised in MicroMark catalog, including one, the MicroLux
Multi-Saw, which was advertised as a coping saw, scroll saw and
jewelers saw, and “one of the world’s only power saws that can
use ultrafine jeweler’s saw blades for the finest cuts you’ve
ever seen.”

I was curious whether anyone here had used this or similar
machines and whether the experience was a good one.


#18

Dear Guy Audette, I too have noticed that a significant
proportion of our Asian born students in Australia use the saw
frame with great skill - with the handle held uppermost. To my
eyes it still looks quite strange, but there is no denying the
skilled precision which results.

The reason is that in Vietnam and parts of China the goldsmith
sits at a very low bench, on the ground. There are small flat
drawers which are pulled out beneath the bench pin, one drawer
for each type of lemel,18k white, 18k yellow, 22k etc. There is
no room under the bench pin to use the saw and so the saw is held
above the bench pin. This tradition is then continued even when
the user is at a bench that has enough room under the bench pin
to use the saw as we do in the west, just because ‘this is the
way you saw’. Western goldsmiths of course do plenty of the same
unthinking traditions as they work, and often are just as
unnecesssary as time and circumstances change. However, as with
any tradition, if it makes you happy, keep doing it. Charles

Charles Lewton-Brain/Brain Press
Box 1624, Ste M, Calgary, Alberta, T2P 2L7, Canada
Tel: 403-263-3955 Fax: 403-283-9053 Email: @Charles_Lewton-Brain

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#19

Hi Kelvin, I use a Dremel (jig saw/scroll saw - same thing?)
which comes with alternative saw blade holders quite capable of
holding jewellery type of saw blades. The technique of sawing is
somewhat different and I’ve found it very easy to get to excited
and push to hard (blade snap!). I also noted as the movement of
the blade is “shorter” i.e. it doesn’t use the full length of the
blade the metal (silver in my case) sticks to the blade quickly
if I fail to lubricate every so often.

I usually use bees wax but I suspect that other types of
lubricants might be more effective in this type of setup. I
recall someone wrote about this at Orchid last year (?) and
suggested a small sponge with lubricant under the saw table -
haven’t tried that yet…

I will try the air pump thing mentioned as I find it more
difficult to remove the silver than when using the hand saw.

Best Regards
Lars Dahlberg/Gotland/SWEDEN


#20

Sharon,

I have used a couple of power saws to do sawing with jewelers

saw blades. The main problem is the rigidity of the saw frame .
Because of the length of the arms they are flexible and there is
a side to side movement set up in the arms that actually sets a
wave traveling through the saw blade that wave will bind in the
kerf ( the gap the saw blade leaves behind it) and will catch
the blade and then it snap it. I have recently tried a DeWalt
saw that has a unique design that has a deep throat but only the
last 3" move the rest is a rigid casting. This saw blade allowed
me to actually wear out blades which brings up the second problem
with power saws the majority of them have a stroke of less than
1.5" this means that you only use about a quarter of the saw
blades teeth and this wears them out rapidly. Some day I hope a
company will make a jewelers power saw that works.

Jim