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Saw blade differences


#1

I used all of the saw blades I had been using and not have some
German blades. I tried them and found them to seem quite ‘thick’ and
drug through the metal even tho they are the same size, 2. Is there
something about the German blades that I am not aware of? Is there
numbering the same as what I would purchase here? What I had been
using was Rio’s laser blades. Also, if I’m not mistaken, the larger
the number the more coarse the blade, correct’ thank you, brenda


#2
I used all of the saw blades I had been using and now have some
German blades. I tried them and found them to seem quite 'thick'
and drug through the metal even tho they are the same size, 2. 

Are you sure you weren’t previously using 2/0? Blades start at 0 and
go up in number and size, but from 0 down, it is the opposite. 2/0
is smaller than 1/0; 3/0 is smaller than 2/0, etc. 2/0 is a much more
commonly-used size for jewelry work than #2, which is pretty big, at
least by my standards.

Noel


#3
Blades start at 0 and go up in number and size, but from 0 down, it
is the opposite. 2/0 is smaller than 1/0; 

Noel may have nailed the problem here. Thing to understand is:
Sawblades go (as Noel says) from 0 up to quite large sizes. We have
some #6’s,which are like small coping saw blades. Smaller than zero
is called 2/0, etc. It’s helpful to understand that 2/0 is actually
shorthand. They are really 0, 00, 000, 0000, 000000, etc…6/0
sawblades are 000000.


#4

It could be that you’ve been using round-backed blades before, and
square-backed now - round-backed ones let you turn a little easier, I
think. I’m not sure if the #2 is a blade width or a "teeth per inch"
measurement - anyone know?It could be that if one of the variables is
fixed, the other can vary.

Jamie Hall
http://primitive.ganoksin.com


#5

I just started using the 2/0 German saw blade too and find the same
problem as you had and they are more expensive, so far I don’t like
them any better. I thought it was just me. What are the best saw
blade everyone likes. I really would like to know what others use.

Roxan O’Brien


#6
I really would like to know what others use. 

Don’t know if they are the best but I like the Swiss Pike brand
blades.

James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


#7

I have used Antilope, Herkules (spelling?) some other brand, and
Pike.

Pike is the only brand where I find consistent quality. At least one
of the others’ sizes changed between lots (really a 4/0 rather than
a 6/0), and the others wouldn’t cut straight.

Before you spring on that last statement, let me tell you I do a LOT
OF SAWING, and I know how to cut straight. I put the blade where I
want it to go. So, if I’m having trouble doing that (saw frame
orientation had to be about 10 degrees off the cut line), then
there’s something wrong with the blade.

Pike brand; I buy them by the gross and give a dozen to each student
so they have a stash of good blades when they start out.

best regards,
Kelley


#8

Saw Blades, I have tried many makes of saw blades in my time and the
ones that have given me consistent quality are the Swiss made,
Glardon Vallorbe round back Jewellers saw blades. The ones I buy
have a gold label and are actually called Super 4/0 etc. I use sizes
8/0, 6/0, 4/0, 3/0, 2/0 and 0. I do have some larger sizes but I
rarely use them, I may use them when cutting thick steel plates or
other thick materials. I also do a lot of piercing and have so for
the past 50 years.Peace and good health to all

James Miller FIPG.


#9

Hi James

Saw Blades, I have tried many makes of saw blades in my time and
the ones that have given me consistent quality are the Swiss made,
Glardon Vallorbe round back Jewellers saw blades. 

I think they are the best!

Hamish


#10

Pike Platinum are the ones that will saw the most. I’ve tried every
expensive blade for sawing pancake dies (using 0-1 ground flat stock
too steel), and found the Platinums significantly longer lasting than
any others. They don’t corner as well as some, and so I haven’t been
using them in the sizes smaller than 1/0. I used Yellow Dagger for
years ; those are somewhat inconsistent, as I’ve had lousy grosses
and incredibly good ones too. They usually corner well, and are
possibly the best value of the good blades. I like Scies, Pike
regular, Antelope, Herkules. The brands I have now are Pike
Platinum, Yellow Dagger, Pike regular and Scies. There’s absolutely
no reason to buy cheap blades for sawing hard metals.

Dar
http://www.sheltech.net


#11

Is there a U.S. distributor that sells Glardon Vallorbe saw blades?

Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.


#12
Is there a U.S. distributor that sells Glardon Vallorbe saw
blades? 

Otto Frei carries nice selection of blades, although I am not sure
if they have Glardon Vallorbe. Saw frame is more important that
blades. No matter how good blades are, bad frame will ruin it, but
average quality blade will perform satisfactory in good saw frame.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#13
Otto Frei carries nice selection of blades, although I am not sure
if they have Glardon Vallorbe. Saw frame is more important that
blades. No matter how good blades are, bad frame will ruin it, but
average quality blade will perform satisfactory in good saw frame. 

I don’t have an extensive history of working with all metals used in
jewelry, but I know enough to know that what you just said is true,
generally, when dealing with probably just about everything but hard
metals. I’m sure anyone would notice a significant performance
difference sawing 14kw with bargain blades instead of high end
blades. There’s not even a hint of a question that the difference is
large when sawing ground flat stock tool steel. Like I already said,
there’s no point at all getting the cheapest blades for that; you
wouldn’t get a quarter inch sawed in a nice fat piece of 3/32" thick
die steel. Using the best blades for this steel is the only way to
fly ; it’s the only thing that makes the job tolerable, and not even
always then. Merely ‘satisfactory’ is not satisfactory at all with a
pile of fifty dies waiting to be sawed out.

I also started using the Otto Frei Swiss blades, which are more or
less equivalent to (Swiss) Yellow Dagger blades. They’re (both) not
as long lasting, not as expensive, but corner a little better than
Pike Platinum . ‘Vallorbe’ sounds familiar, so I know I’ve seen it on
blades I’ve gotten in the U.S., but I can’t recall for sure on which
ones.

Dar Shelton
http://www.sheltech.net


#14

I apologize for asking such a question, but for a complete novice,
what makes a good saw frame?

bbh


#15

Hi James, this is wonderful to know that you v been doing the same
thing for a quite long time…i would love to hear from you
some tips on accuracy in cutting and what size of blades do you
suggest for smaller cutouts…

regards
ramesh…
jaipur


#16
I apologize for asking such a question, but for a complete novice,
what makes a good saw frame? 

No need for apologies, the question is very pertinent. There are 3
things to consider, - stiffness, balance, and alignment.

To my mind alignment should be primary consideration. Under no
circumstances should a blade be allowed side contact. (There are
situations when sides are used exclusively, but it is no longer
sawing, but filling. Blade is often in reverse position.) If this
happens, the life of the blade is shortened significantly and sawing
becomes erratic. The way to tell alignment is look at how blade is
secured. The best way is between 2 flat surfaces. Also, blade can be
aligned when frame is not in use, but get out of alignment once in
use. That is such a common problem.

Stiffness comes next. The reasons are the same. If frame flexes
under the load, blade will expose it’s sides with disastrous results.
Besides, when frame straightens out a whiplike shock is sent into the
blade, which it is unlikely to survive.

Balance is not very obvious but highly desirable feature. What it
means is while sawing you should be able to relax your wrist
momentarily. I am not saying letting it go, just relax and not to
loose control. If you can do it, than sawing for long periods of time
is not a problem.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#17

Here is my opionion; your mileage may vary; I do a lot of piercing
and I teach it as well:

  • A good saw frame should not be terribly expensive; but a cheap one
    isn’t worth the money.

  • The frame should be deep enough to work around most
    jewelry-related needs but not so deep that it becomes flexible.

  • Blades should be easy to mount and you should be able to see
    whether or not you have mounted the blade properly.

  • Thumbscrews should not require Godzilla thumb joints.

  • The screw that adjusts the frame to the length of the blade should
    have a metal shim in it so someone without Godzilla thumb joints can
    tighten it so it won’t slip.

  • There should be a knob at the head of the frame so you can tension
    the frame without slipping; this lets you get the proper tightness
    in your blade - too loose and you can’t stay on your line and you
    break blades at a higher rate.

Here is a link to the kind of frame I prefer (there are at least
four of them around the house, that’s how much I prefer them):

http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/1un

I don’t like the blade mounts where I have to insert the end into a
hole. I lose sight of it and can’t tell if it’s in far enough or
not. Most of the time I tighten the clamp and then it turns out it
didn’t capture the blade.

I also avoid frames that use clamps or wingnuts instead of the
broad-headed thumbscrews. If it hurts me to mount a blade or adjust
the frame, then it’s a frame I avoid.

BTW, when you are sawing, you should have a very gentle grip on the
handle of the saw. If your fingers are getting sore from a tight
grip, then lighten up. You will find your piercing improves by having
a delicate grip. You’ve got to ‘feel’ the metal, and you can’t do
that with a hard grip. If you use a find blade like me (6/0 for
everything), you can’t see the blade’s leading edge too well. You
have to be able to feel when you are binding, and adjust your track
immediately. (On the other hand [literally], my left hand holds the
work on the benchpin, and that’s the one that gets stiff and sore.)

hope this helps,
Kelley Dragon


#18

Gaaak, I left out a detail -

* There should be a knob at the head of the frame so you can
tension the frame without slipping; 

the reason for this is that you rest the knob on a ledge (edge of
the bench for example) and compress the frame. Without the knob, it’s
easy for the frame to slip to the side, or downward, while your
attention is on the blade you are trying to insert or tighten. Big
aggravation when this happens.

It also helps when you are doing inside cuts: Install the blade at
the head of the frame, tighten the thumbscrew. Thread the object onto
the blade and slide it all the way up to the head of the blade.
Holding the handle, with the knob tucked into a cubbyhole (look at
your bench, you will find one), lift the handle so gravity keeps the
object at the head of the blade. (An inch of rise will do.) Then
compress the frame, insert the tail of the blade and tighten the
thumbscrew. Without the knob it’s hard to keep the frame still and
then gravity works against you, not for you.

Lordy, I’ve got to make a video one of these days. It would be so
much more clear to be able to say, “Watch this !”

best regards,
Kelley


#19
I apologize for asking such a question, but for a complete novice,
what makes a good saw frame? 

One that works for you, is the best saw frame.

“Knew Concepts” has an excellent saw frame, pretty easy to use, a
good tool. A beginner can pick up one of these frames and be cutting
straight in no time. Used to break a saw blade often (my saw frame
was horrible), now I throw a blade out when it’s blunt.

People look at the frame and are resistant to use it because it
looks so different to a traditional frame. I often lend my frame to
people, I ask them to torture the blades, they end up buying one.

There is no better recommendation than from a hardened disbeliever.

Regards Charles A.


#20

Yes decent saw frames are helpful, I also use the Knew Concept frames
and have all sizes in my tool kit, the quick release lever ones are
great when piercing many interior holes, and the light weight helps
with easy handling when sawing. My most used frame is my 5 inch
Titanium model. As to Ramesh’s question about which saw blade sizes I
use, well mostly I use sizes 4/0 and 6/0 when cutting detailed
designs into metals up to 1mm. thick. For thicker metals, between
1mm. and 2mm. I will tend to use sizes 3/0, 2/0 and 0. I do not use
any larger saw blades on metals, but I do use larger blades when
cutting woods.

I often quote my piercing methods on this and other forums so I will
not bore you with repeats of what I have said before, but my main
piece of advice is to pierce across your eye line, piercing across
rather than down the bench pin, piecing this way makes it easy to see
where the blade is cutting.

I was always taught that it was better to see where the saw blade is
going rather than seeing where it has been.

Happy piercing.
James Miller FIPG