The point is, it’s up to the designer to design, to the craftsman to
make. If you want to argue with the designer, go ahead. But you don’t
have to work at the shoe factory to design shoes. You design your
vision, and it’s up to the craftspeople to figure out how to make it.
Or not. They can argue if they want to. They may win, they may not.
That’s just the reality of it.
Brian Corll
Vassar Gems
Hello Cameron, et al,
I just re-read my posting. I am not referring to you Cameron, by any
means. I was applauding your latest posting, that I referenced, and I
was talking in general to those who brow beat. In not way do I mean
"you" as in you, Cameron.
I apologize for not making that clear in the original message to all
the readers, and to you especially, Cameron.
Sorry,
Bayla
Oh, my, here we go again. Thanks, Kim and Leah and Jerry Smith for
making obvious points. But I want to make another one: why shouldn’t
a designer who has minimal experience with specific processes, but is
a quick study, and who has brilliant, creative ideas, be able to
design jewelry that works–in every way?
Some people (and Nanz, I find it strange coming from you, given your
current day job) seem to believe that what one might call “process
mastery” is a prerequisite to excellent, workable design. But this
isn’t true in other areas of product design–why should it be true
for jewelry? I’m no great shakes at throwing pots, but I do know what
can and can’t be done, and I’ve designed some really gorgeous pots
that are way past my ability. If my potter friends weren’t all so
busy making their own designs, maybe I’d find one to make them for
me.
But, since there are so many jewelers who have spent 25 years at the
bench and can’t design to save their lives, why shouldn’t they
execute other people’s designs? There is an assumption that the
designer who approaches a bench jeweler is either a jerk who knows
nothing about processes or is a fully qualified bench jeweler
herself. Why should this be true? Why couldn’t there be a continuum?
What about this imaginary scenario: I have what I believe is a
fabulous idea for a series of pieces that involve tube set facetted
stones. I’ve only done bezel setting [this part this true], so, not
wanting to screw up the designs, or annoy anyone I might approach to
make them, I go take a weekend crash course with Gerry Lewy. It
hardly makes me a stone setter, but now I can talk like one, and
maybe even convince the setter I do use that I could do it myself if
I weren’t terribly busy and important (this is a joke, please watch
British films). I sure haven’t paid the dues Nanz thinks I should
have paid, but I’m not exactly an idiot either. Am I a designer?
Even though my brain always seems to be working on designs of one
kind or another (I’ll probably be designing something on my death
bed), I’m not calling myself a designer. These days, taking a page
from Deleuze and Guattari, I’m calling myself a desiring machine.
That way, only those who have studied French theory can challenge me.
Ha!
Lisa Orlando
An artist, too… Maybe a bad one, but still trying. The rest, as T. S.
Eliot said, is not our business.
Which leads me to most artists dilemma. Should we follow our muse and create/design what we want to, OR should we make what sells in order to have more of the American consumerbian dream?
That all depends! Do you have another source of income or do your
creations have to keep you alive?
Dave
Yes, this thread has, in classic Orchidian fashion, expanded from a
simple question about salaries–one to which Nanz’s response may have
been at least appropriate (if I were a bench jewelry who had worked
my way up to designer in a major jewelry house, and some star [snip]
gave my job to a wannabe like Paloma Picasso, I’d probably be
annoyed, to say the least)–but that’s life on Orchid and here we are
again.
Dear David, Barry Manilow is a singer and a song writer. He may be a
“bad” one, but that doesn’t change what he is. David Yurman is a
jewelry designer, whether you like him or not. Using your other
analogy, he is not laying bricks: he is designing houses for other
people to build–and people are building them. I personally find his
designs tasteless, and would never wear them, but that just means I
think he’s a lousy designer. Elsa Peretti has a very limited design
vocabulary, but I too don’t think she’s a lousy designer, just a
limited one.
As far as I know, our profession–if such a wildly varying group of
people constitute a profession–has no enforcing arm, the way
architects do, so, yes, anyone can call themselves a bench jeweler,
too, and there’s nothing anyone can do about it. (Anyone can call
herself a portrait painter as well.) I suspect we’re all better off
this way. Psychotherapists thought that, by instituting a
state-controlled licensing system, they would be protecting their
profession. Don’t get me started on the mess they’ve ended up with.
But just think historically for a moment. Imagine how all those
classically trained musicians felt when a bunch of folks who taught
themselves to play sax started wailing away and calling themselves
jazz musicians. And then think about how both groups felt when a
bunch of kids bought themselves electric guitars, learned three
chords from a book, and started writing their own songs (some of
which now have the distinction, if that’s what it is, of being
recorded by full orchestras, so that they can be heard in elevators).
My ex–a woefully under-trained musician/composer with an MFA–wrote
a relevant song:
"Hey, David, your analysis is flawed.
Hey, David, it's not the modern world anymore."
Lisa Orlando
(who definitely doesn’t have a sister named Lisa–my sister’s name is
Khristine Hopkins and she’s a photographer [after one year of art
school] whose remaindered book is still available through
Amazon
Just a comment on Daniel Shirers thoughts on the “architect
designer” customer. I’ve had simular experiences with these types of
people. You know…the ones that think they know what they are
doing because they are good in another profession. These customers
often think they are competant to not only come up with an idea (
which is o.k.) but tell you how to execute it as well. Its kind of
like going to your surgeon and telling him how to operate or telling
your auto painter the best way to make your vehicle look new again.
As far as “true artists” not making a living off of their art until
they die is concerned, that isn’t always true. Andy Warhol comes to
mind. Often, artists “sell out” in order to have a decent life and
business isn’t always the enemy of true art. I think those of us in
the business of feeding our
families through our creativity constantly struggle with the whole
issue of creativity and profitability.
How does this relate to the topic of saleries for jewelry designers?
I’d say, most of us get just about exactly what we demand and our
skills confirm.
charles
Lisa,
Thank you for the credit. When an idea gets into my head, I use the
"third eye" or “minds eyes” to figure out how to make that jewelry.
Some times I try to make it with out knowing the process, some times
I wait to find out the process.
I have been blessed with many skills and determination. 9 years ago I
tried to use an underpowered stick welder for jewelry like somebody
mentioned to me. I gave that welder away and bought another, more
appropriate for heavier work, but could be dialed down for my work.
Sometimes I don’t want to know the accepted process, because that may
taint my idea of how to do the work. Sometimes after I have done some
process, I say there has to be an easier way and then I ask or read
up on how to do things.
Salary, hmmmmm, what should a designer get, the sky is the limit for
wage, the imagination is the only limit for the designer.
Jerry
Dear Carolyn M., Leah and Kim,
My original rant was to delineate a job description which exists in
the jewelry industry. The form of design I am referring to is more
closely akin to industrial design. I thought that was clear in my
post, when I referred multiple times to the industry. I am sorry if
you felt insulted by my post and will try to clarify my meaning.
The jewelry industry I am referring to would be comprised of, but
not solely limited to: jewelry retailers who employ goldsmiths and
silversmiths to make their jewelry in-house, jewelry trade-union
members, where they still exist, who work in traditional jewelry
materials for making precious and bridge jewelry, and jewelry
manufacturing firms, large and small, precious and bridge, that are
listed with the Jewelers Board of Trade. Pretty much those
individuals and companies who get into the JCK Vegas show without any
trouble. (Bridge jewelry is mass manufactured silver fashion jewelry
using semi-precious gemstones or man-made gemstone material.)
There are federal regulations that dictate accountability and
business practices to jewelry industry members. The problem I see
facing the jewelry industry is that job credibility is called into
question when an uninformed public is presented with conflicting job
titles that are not supported by credentials. The public is being
defrauded and the jewelry retailer or manufacturer is having their
reputation ruined. This situation primarily effects jewelry retailers
or small manufacturers in the jewelry industry when they are dealing
with the public, and it was to them that my job description was
addressed. And it was those members of Orchid who supported my post.
If you do not see yourself as a jewelry industry member as described
in the listing above, then my job description was not directed towards
you, nor was it intended as a put down of you.
Perhaps you are a studio jeweler, art jeweler, independent artisan,
jewelry maker, student or hobbyist. I don’t see any of those titles as
put downs either, but from the tone of your posts, it seems you do.
The distinction between being a student or hobbyist and a
professional jewelry maker comes with running a self-supporting
business. These are standards established by the Small Business
Administration, not me. If you can make enough money to support your
own business regardless of your product, or your profit margin,
you’re a professional business owner. If you have applied for and
received a business licenses and can not run a self-supporting
business for five years (filing and paying taxes) The SBA will
declare you a hobbyist and deny you a renewal of your business
licenses. At least that is how my accountant explained the regulation
to me when I ran my business.
I closed my business as a professional jewelry designer, so I no
longer call myself a jewelry designer. Certainly, I still use my
designing skills when I make jewelry, But since I am not designing it
for industry manufacture and reproduction, the jewelry is not being
designed so much as it is just being made. I have an idea and I make
it, this is a much more fluid and spontaneously creative act. Which
makes it very hard for anyone to reproduce exact copies, even me.
From the gist of your posts, this more creative act sounds like it
is in line with what each of you are doing. If you are working
directly in your chosen material and fluidly making choices as each
piece develops, that is the act of making and creating. It should not
be confused with designing for industry manufacture or reproduction. I
am sorry if the I posted regarding job qualifications
within the jewelry industry was misconstrued.
Nanz Aalund
Associate Editor / Art Jewelry magazine
21027 Crossroads Circle / Waukesha WI 53187-1612
262.796.8776 ext.228
I do nice jewelry, and some expensive jewelry. Some day I may sell a
design to a bulk manufacture and take a percentage, but that is in
the future. Mindi and I make enough money to support our families and
buy new machines.
Here comes the BIG But, we work long hours, take no vacations, except
when we are on the road doing business. I sold my house in suburbia
and bought a home in the country. The mall is 30 to 40 minutes away,
they don’t deliver pizza where I live and the local bank went nuts
when I had some money wired into my account here in Ohio from Italy.
What is rich and famous? I live well, my family doesn’t go without,
my wife is understanding. Mindi buys toys for the times she is not
working. We are happy.
So what counts to you may not be what counts to me. I enjoy my work,
I work at selling it, I do no name label work now and then, we have
money left over at the end of the month.
I would say that I am rich with the love of my work, love from my
family and those who help me. I give to local causes and participate
in my community. So I am happy.
Jerry
Thank you Nanz for clearing up your meaning in what you posted. It
is possible that I came in on the discussion a little late and didn’t
fully understand what your original argument was. Personally all I
wanted to state is that we should all show regard for one anothers
chosen field in the making of jewelry whether it is through higher
education, apprenticeship training or being self taught. Each person
who truly endeavors to learn basic skills and then continue to
enlarge on that education until they reach the point where they can
produce jewelry that is “original” and marketable should be able to
say they are a “Jewelry Designer” To me the title of Jewelry
Designer" merely means exactly that, that he/she designs jewelry.
Carolyn M.
That all depends! Do you have another source of income or do your creations have to keep you alive?
I had a young woman working for me a couple of years ago, who wasn’t
making enough money on her jewelry, so she got a job at a pizza place
making $5.xx an hour.
I told her if she would just stay at work and make more product whe
could meet her finacial needs. Guess what? She worked 3 extra hours,
four days a week and was meeting her money needs and then some.
Where does my money goes, that is simple, back in to the company, I
get paid the least amount and take the maximum risk. I buy nothing on
time or credit. The company owns a great deal of equipment that I
have acrued over the last 10 plus years. We are planning on putting up
two work buildings this summer to expand thing even more. Most
likely, I will be using my nail gun after regular hours, building
those two buildings. That is what makes my company work.
Jerry
Hi Nanz,
Thanks for clarifying:
The jewelry industry I am referring to would be comprised of, but not solely limited to: jewelry retailers who employ goldsmiths and silversmiths to make their jewelry in-house, jewelry trade-union members, where they still exist, who work in traditional jewelry materials for making precious and bridge jewelry, and jewelry manufacturing firms, large and small, precious and bridge, that are listed with the Jewelers Board of Trade. Pretty much those individuals and companies who get into the JCK Vegas show without
any
trouble.
I always thought of the jewelry industry as generally anyone whose
business was jewelry - which would include art jewelers, studio
jewelers, etc. I am not at all insulted by those terms - the people
who most inspire me fall into those categories. I was basically
confused by your post, because what I thought of when you said
“jewelry industry” was clearly not what you meant. It makes perfect
sense to me that someone designing for manufacturers or bench
jewelers to produce should have a good understanding of how to make
workable renderings, and why bench jewelers would be annoyed by
people wanting them to make jewelry from bad renderings or
unworkable designs.
I’ve read over some of these posts.
I agree 100% bench experience is needed.
But actually that’s not true at all.
What you really need is ATTITUDE, which is not shown by many here.
In 1970 or so I was hired by Neiman Marcus in Atlanta as their
jeweler for their new store. They did NO designing and refused to
allow me to help a customer who wanted it. So I referred people to a
guy I knew who did designing.
A year later, after sending him so many referrals, he hired me. I
worked there a year before going out on my own in 1974.
I worked at “18kt, Inc” for a year. Martin Dubler was the
owner/designer. His background was being an engineer and previous had
run a wig factory in Japan. He came back to Atlanta and opened up his
studio. In the 70’s free form waxed jewelry was the rage. He made
18kt yellow gold jewelry, with diamond and such and grew his
business, lived in a nice house, drove nice cars. When I left he had
4 jewelers.
His ability? His ring sizings sucked. He could set stones and he was
pretty good at fabrication but the 4 of us jewelers were amazed at
the business he did without being a GOOD bench jeweler.
He had presence. He looked the part. Nice clothes, spoke well.
CHARGED RIGHT. The store was nice, not fruppy.
Whether or not it would fly today is another thing, but I gotta tell
you. JUST TRY. Make it look like you know and ask for bigger bucks.
You can always send work out, lord knows there’s enough starving
benches who’ll do wholesale work.
Home Depot was started here in Atlanta and in the 80s’ I attended a
business breakfast that Bernie Marcus (1 of the founders) spoke. His
motto when he started was
“Fake it until you make it”
Ever been in a Home Depot and looked at SAWS? Open saws to touch and
above the saw display is a shelf with 50 BOXES OF SAWS.
When he started he order 4 saws and 50 EMPTY BOXES. He made it look
like he had stock but when he sold ONE he quickly ordered another.
He FAKED it until he made it.
If the customer is happy and you’re happy, just go for it. Forget
the title.
Besides, when the last time you actually touched a piece of jewelry
that DAVID YURMAN actually made himself?
David Geller
www.jewelerprofit.com