Safe Advice

Good Morning,

I’m going to reply to the list has this is a common misconception.
COMMON FIREPROOF SAFES APPLY ONLY TO PAPER AND DOCUMENTS.
Please call the safe manufacturer and ask them. The will tell you
flat out that electronic and Magnetic media are not safe against fire
in a “safe”. This is the reason companies pay for off site storage of
backups in a secure location. The only real safe method is off site,
and if you are concerned about data security then buy a second safe
for the off site location.

To be honest I even doubt if silver and gold is safe against fire in
a fireproof safe. It is a common mistake to believe that a fireproof
safe keeps heat out, it doesn’t all it does is slow down the heat
rise and keeps a high humidity level inside during the fire.

Please note that you can buy Fireproof safes for data storage, yes
they exist, but they are not at a price that you would like. There is
an excellent web page that I goggled up this morning at
http://www.safeoptions.co.uk/techinfo.htm that explains the
difference.

Again, please don’t believe me, contact the manufacturer of your safe
and ask them. I hope you believe them over what a friend and / or
salesman at Sams club tells you.

Has Robert Heinlien was fond of saying in his books “There ain’t no
such thing has a free lunch” If you want a fireproof Data safe then
be prepared to pay, if you want a real safe rated for Jeweler’s then
be prepared to pay, If you want one that does both then be prepared
to pay a lot more (probably cheaper to buy 2 separate safes) . If
you want a box to protect some papers against fire for a limited
time, then you can expect to pay little as 1- they are a commodity
item and 2 it is very easy to protect paper from fire.

Kay

PS Sentry can be reached at:

Phone (U.S. & Canada)
1-800-828-1438
Monday-Friday 8:00 AM - 8:00 PM ET
For other countries or for email contact go to
http://www.sentrysafe.com/

PPS if you are like me and hate waiting on hold for “Customer
service” you can go to Sentry’s FAQ page at
Bad URL removed
And click the How do I protect my CDs, disks, audio and video
cassettes and other magnetic/photographic and data storage media?
Question and read: CDs, diskettes, audio and video cassettes, photo
negatives, X-ray films and microfiche need more fire and humidity
protection than provided by Sentry’s standard Fire-Safe product line.
Damage to these types of media may begin at temperatures above 125BF
as compared to paper products that may withstand heat up to 350BF.

Sentry offers two Fire-Safe media products that provide
laboratory-tested protection from heat, fire and humidity - Sentry
Fire-Safe 1710 media chest, and Sentry Fire-Safe 6720 media file.

PPPS: My day Job is in the Computer industry these days and more than
once I have had to explain the facts of life to a client after a
fire… Tape, CD’s and most backup media melt at low temperatures (
as per sentry 125 Degrees Farinheight, has per my experience they
are probably right I have destroyed a backup tape by leaving it in
the car during the summer). If you are using removable hard disks
there is a little more latitude, but has soon has the platters in the
hard disk reach the temperatures where they loose their magnetic
field they are toast…

Folks,

The one thing that people do not truly realize is that locksmith and
safe open methods are available on DVD. in some states this
is not exactly legal, because like lock picks, these
things are considered to be criminal tools. BUT they are still out
there.

As many have suggested get a fire box, because that maybe one of
things you need to protect against, get a monitored security system,
a zone security system would be even better. Get a dog, they will
make noise, don’t tell anyone where you live and all documents you
don’t need anymore, shred, then burn the left overs from the
shredder. Magazines and trade journals, don’t put them in your
garbage, remove the address label and give them to seniors home or a
veterans hospital.

Make it difficult for people to find you and make it difficult for
them to steal from you. As I said before, a pro would be in and out
of your place very quickly, the amateur would be caught or leave
without take expensive things.

One of my neighbors who had a goof income bought a safe that had two
locking systems and was generally difficult to open and close because
of the locks. So he decided that he really didn’t need to lock it
when he was close to home. So kids broke in, at first they were
taking the TV and the stereo, then they found the safe and it was not
locked, so his guns, his special bourbon, his wife’s jewelry and
other thing were taken. They left the TV and stereo. So good lesson,
if you buy a safe with a complex opening and closing procedure,
follow it, it’s meant to be hard to open for a reason.

Jerry

Roseanne,

As I stated in my posting what kind of safe you have or need depends
a lot on how much you are protecting. You may be fine with your safe
for the dollar value you are protecting. Most gun safes are not UL
rated. If yours is then that’s fine for you, particularly if the
rating is enough given the coverage you are looking for. I’m sure
that showing a safe that’s had the door peeled back is part of the
marketing of a safe, but showing how much better your jewelry is than
someone else’s is part of marketing your product as well.

All security however is dependent on a series of often redundant
systems designed to make the criminal look elsewhere for an easier
target. Having a secure safe is only part of the solution to
protecting your inventory. Having the proper alarm system, keeping
cell phones available at all times, being aware of your surroundings,
installing security cameras, etc. are all part of protecting your
inventory, and if you are handling it, customer’s goods. Having
multiple systems backing up each other is a critical part of it as
well. I’m sure the level of security I pay for is far higher than
what many of you need, based on the size of my inventory and my
location in an urban area. However I can assure you that I sleep far
better at night knowing that by the time some guy got a burning bar
to bore a 1 inch hole through the side of my safe, my alarm system
would have been set off long ago(even if they cut the phone lines
because that system is redundant too), the police department would
have been notified (and they can see the safe from the street), and I
would be watching (and recording) what the guy was actually doing
top of that any serious criminals (anyone actually capable of getting
into my safe) would realize that given all of the protection, it
simply wouldn’t be worth it to make the attempt, given that my
inventory isn’t really that large, relative to the risk (if my
inventory was larger, you can believe that I would have even more
systems in place). They would simply move on to the next guy who
leaves half his jewelry out at night, uses a small or easily broken
into safe, and who turned off his alarm after a few false alarms went
through.

And incidentally, the reason I pay less than some people for the
insurance coverage I need is because I do have all of these
redundant systems in place. The statistics show that proper safes
and alarm systems reduce losses. Any serious jewelry insurer (like
Jewelers Mutual) recognizes and rewards this.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
@Daniel_R_Spirer

I have a 96 lb. Wiemraner and a 75lb. wiem/aussie mix. I live in my
studio so my dogs and all their expenses (food, vet, etc.) are tax
deductible!! They are sweet as can be, but put up a great show and
definitely deter trouble. I have lived is some pretty dicy
neighborhoods.

Sue Ann Dorman
@Sue_Dorman
www.suedorman.com

Rodney,

Thanks for letting us peek into your experiences in the safe and
vault world. Your observations are very reasonable and to the point.
I especially liked the decoy safe idea…I really don’t think many
safe crackers would be equipped to test c.z.'s ! Along the same
lines of logic, I also liked the idea of spreading out the
risk…if you have a number of secure stashes throughout your
turf you automatically impinge on the time factor of the would be
thieves. This is especially appropriate when you consider that many
criminals are actually druggies and /or punks who are easily
frustrated.

Last, but not least is the visibility factor. If you have a high
profile you had better also have a VERY high level of security. The
yellow pages of your telephone directory are , basically, a HIT
LIST. How convenient it is for the perp to have a ready made list of
victims !. They are almost always a pecking order of those who have
the biggest stashes.

We are now running a string on Orchid which extolls the virtues of
advertising…automatically, we are confronted with the irony of a
need to maintain a low profile while getting the greatest possible
profile…hence, the need for an extremely well conceived
compromise !

There are no panaceas for security. Business is risk taking. It is
tangible risk taking and it is financial risk taking. Life itself is
risk. Without risk we don’t venture and, without risk we don’t have
adventure, and without adventure we aren’t alive !

Ron Mills, Mills Gem Co. Los Osos, Ca.

Hello I have not been following this thread from the beginnng so I
don’t know what kind of prices folks have been mentioning. If you are
doing a fair bit of high end product you really should consider
getting a real safe. You can get them used from a reliable source.
What is $ if you can’t afford to get robbed and replace a coustomers
work etc. You can find a TL30 safe used for around $3000. Yes its a
lot of $ but how much does it cost to replace 1 single 1carat
diamond? Do the math.

Good luck.

ps TL30 safe wighs about 3000 pounds, you need a good floor.

Someone mentioned shredding papers as part of a good security
system. This is so important to do. Several years ago, I had someone
steal my trash cans at home 3 weeks in a row. We believe that
someone had followed us from our store, to our home, and had
observed that we carried a bag or 2 of trash with us weekly. Since
our business is only my wife and myself, our trash output is
limited. Thats why we simply take it home, instead of paying for
commercial trash service at our store. At the time we still used
credit card machines that imprinted from the card, and there were
carbon papers left over from each transaction that contained credit
card numbers, expiration dates, and names. Fortunately, my wife has
always shredded nearly every piece of paper within 10 yards of her.
I have been in the jewelry business professionally for aprox 35
years, and have nearly always watched my back as I go home in the
evenings, but apparently I was being watched from afar so they could
get my trash for the credit card slips.

Ed in Kokomo

While it was many years ago, I worked in the security industry for a
short time. A few things that I have learned then and since.

Security has to be worked out so that it is followed. Either a
person has to be very conscientious to follow the security or the
security should be easy to use. I tend to feel that the latter is
always the best course.

I include safes in that “should be easy to use” category. I saw
several break ins where great safes were left unlocked because
people found the combination system hard to use or couldn’t be
bothered calling the security company because the safe required the
security company to be present to open - a dual key system with the
security company having one key. The last case where people
couldn’t be bothered or wouldn’t take the time to call the security
company wasn’t uncommon even when the security company had a service
contract to provide that service. Good safes can be got with
electronic keypads that are easy to use.

If you do use an electronic keypad for the alarm system or safe,
change the combination periodically. I know several locations where
a person can work out the combination with a little effort because
of the worn key tops of the numbers that are always used!

Alarm systems CAN be used where there are no fixed phone lines. It
is quite common in Australia for “redundant” phone access to be by a
mobile phone permanently connected to the alarm system. If the land
line won’t work then it dials out on the mobile phone. I can’t see
why the mobile phone can’t be used as the primary link - you may
have to talk to a few security companies to find who offers the
interface.

If you are getting an alarm system wired in - “wireless” units are
quite common now though - then get the security company to wire the
anti tamper lines on the sensors so that they are connected all the
time. It is quite common here for alarm companies to only connect
the anti tamper switch on sensors to the alarm circuit that the
sensor is on. As a detector normally requires a pair or wire for
power and a pair for the alarm circuit, they only need a two pair
wire to do that. Wiring the sensor with a separate anti tamper
circuit requires an additional pair which adds a tiny amount to the
cost but every cent counts on quoted jobs.

The disadvantage of sharing the anti tamper with the alarm circuit
is that when your alarm is disabled, then the anti tamper is not
functioning. The sensor can be rewired to bypass the alarm quite
safely at that time. Their will be no warning that that has been
done when the system is armed. Most alarms have a anti tamper
"sector" that is always powered so if someone was to say open a PIR
(Infrared sensor) when the alarm was turned off and it is connected
to the anti tamper zone, then the alarm would still sound.

PIR (Passive InfraRed) sensors are quite common and operate by
detecting a temperature change across zone boundaries. The number
of zones and where they are located vary as do distances that they
cover etc. Some have an additional down looking zone to catch
someone trying to tamper with the sensor. PIR’s do have some
shortcomings. To overcome those “dual tech” systems are available
which combine InfraRed technology with say Ultrasonic technology.
It requires both to trigger to trigger an alarm.

Another point about the wiring is to ensure that flexible multi
strand wiring is used - sometimes the solid strand phone type wire
is used and it can get a break where the two broken parts of the
strand are normally touching. Get a little vibration or a change in
temperature and the ends part momentarily causing a false alarm. It
can be damn hard to find at times.

Remember that an alarm system is only worth having if it is turned
on and if it works. False alarms either mean that it will not be
used or that it won’t be believed when it does go off; so it is
useless either way. As an alarm system is generally going to be
used for some time, it pays to ensure that you get exactly what you
need even if it costs more to start with and a quality installation
will mean few or no false alarms.

Alarm systems can also be set up so that in the day mode (when
turned off), they will still offer perimeter security and give a
chirp or beep when people enter given zones. That way you have
some warning that someone else is around when maybe you didn’t
expect them.

Security cameras are also cheap and easy to get now so, again, you
can be aware of anyone around your premises. Many of these have
InfraRed LED’s for lighting and are even able to operate in the dark
in InfraRed mode - black and white but often amazing clarity.
InfraRed is invisible to us so the InfraRed LED illumination is
totally unseen. If you do fit a recorder then ensure that it is
hidden away and that no one knows that it is fitted. A tape is no
use if the thieves take it with them.

Other points to look at are that your doors are solid core doors so
that a person can not just kick their way in - Australia has been
very lax in this are and many exterior doors on houses are not solid
core. The solid core doors have timber all the way through. The
hollow core doors just have a plywood skim with a honeycomb egg
crate looking cardboard centre.

If door hinge pins are on the outside, they should be checked to
ensure that they can not be removed to open the doors. One way of
helping prevent that is to fit a couple of bolts on the hinge side.
These bolts are screwed into the edge of the door but are still left
protruding a little and have their heads cut off. Matching holes
into the door frame fit the protruding section of the bolts and
allow the door to close. If the hinge pins are removed now then the
bolts protruding into the door frame still hold the door in
position. This is sometimes done just as an extra safety measure
and manufactured solid steel “Door Pins” are available to do the
same job. Decent locks with dead locks should be used and if it is
a house, ensure that there isn’t a glass section that can be smashed
to put an arm through to unlock it.

“Key in Knob” style locks are often very weak. Here it is quite
common for thieves to use a pipe wrench to simply turn the knob
until it destructs. They can then easily open the door.

With your security measures, please also consider how you can get
out in event of a fire or other emergencies. Bars and grills and
deadlocks can make evacuation difficult in emergencies so consider
hidden keys etc to allow escape if necessary.

Inside a building, secure room areas also need to have appropriate
building methods. I saw a site where thieves had come through a
ceiling and kicked their way through 8 or 9 interior walls made of
plasterboard to get into a “secured” room. It had sensors on doors
and windows and on the approaching hallway but the plasterboard
walls were totally unsuited to the job. The walls were belatedly
clad with plywood screwed at four inch intervals and then recovered
with plasterboard so that a good finish could be easily done.

Similar “secure rooms” are now quite common in houses in some areas.
Generally the master bedroom has plywood fixed to the studs before
the plasterboard covering and a strong door with good locks is
fitted. Generally a mobile phone is left for communications or a
separate phone line. In event of a break in, the owner can retreat
to the bedroom, lock the thieves out and call for help. The house
may be trashed but the owners should be safe.

Perhaps others can give their findings on security sensors etc.

Regards,
Brian.

1 Like
One of my neighbors who had a goof income bought a safe that had two
locking systems and was generally difficult to open and close because
of the locks. So he decided that he really didn't need to lock it
when he was close to home. So kids broke in, at first they were
taking the TV and the stereo, then they found the safe and it was not
locked, so his guns, his special bourbon, 

WOW!

Bourbon so top, that ya’d lock it in a safe…?

But then, Larry Niven’s Kzinti drink it…heated…

But the safe wasn’t locked…if he is a Bourbon fan, that I can
understand…

I’m a Bourbon fan as funds allow……

Any idea what he had laid in there, the Bourbon’s name, I
mean…?

Gary W. Bourbonais
A.J.P. (GIA)

P.S. No connection with the name…my name is Canuck, and French
provicial,…Bourbon comes out of Kentucky (mostly)…has to do
with LaFayette privateering the British and all of that resulting in
a district named kinda in his honor…

Foe electronic media safekeeping, such as computer backup discs,
family photos, etc, I keep 1 set of copies in my TL30 at my store, 1
set in a stash at home, and one set at my parents home in another
city. If all 3 locations were to be destroyed simultaneously,
neither you nor myself will be in need of much of anything those
discs might contain. But saved data, along with family photos, are
absolutely priceless.

Ed in Kokomo

Hello Folks

When I worked for a jewellery supply company here in Calgary,
Alberta, Canada, approximately 20 years ago, I was continuously
reminded to rip up the carbons from Credit card purchases as being in
downtown, people would break into the commercial garbage cans all the
time. These large cans that are lifted over a truck with a fork on
the front were locked and only opened for deposits and evacuation of
garbage. Even at that time a carbon was worth $25 and up a piece on
the street as it contained the number, expiry and often signature. I
even got to the point of putting half the pieces into one garbage can
and the other into another that was emptied at different times. I
remember this well as being rather new and naive and was shocked that
they had a dollar value.

Not long after that a neighbour also mentioned that on her last trip
to the dump that she had noticed a bag torn open and another
neighbours trash spread all over the ground including utility bills,
phone bills and shopping receipts as well as some personal letters. A
smorgasbord of personal available to anyone. I now shred
or burn all personal papers and even anything with just a name and
address on it, as well as recently I realized the amount of info on
an old prescription bottle and it gets burned now too.

I know a couple of people that have had their identities stolen from
just this little bit of seemingly innocuous pieces of personal
property.

Karen Bahr
Karen’s Artworx
www.nucleus.com.~karensartworx

Karen, so true!

When your garbage is left at the end of your home/driveway…its
"open market" to literally anyone…tear it up or shred it prior to
garbage day!..even at restaurants or retail stores, ask for the
"carbon" to be returned…don’t forget, its still your
property!..this ain’t a perfect world!

Gerry!

While I will not comment on the Safes, or any other security
measures at my current employer I did work for a store, which is now
closed who had two large safes inside a concrete vault with lots of
reinforcing rod (I’m told that after the store closed the new tenet
decided to convert this vault into an office for the manager, it
took two days to cut an opening for a window to lookout onto the
sales floor) . The walls of this vault had an alarm grid mounted to
the inside walls behind the wall board. Each of the safes also had
alarm connections. And the entire Vault and the safes were on a
second secured alarm form the rest of the store.

During the eight years I worked there I responded to three separate
alarms where the premises had been broken into and two which were
malfunctions (or a test to see what type of response was coming).
Incidentally the vault was never penetrated or assaulted, Security
is very important. Several smaller safes are perhaps better than
one big one, provided that they are good safes, and a UL rated
TR30X6 is a good safe.

Listen to what the big insurers want, then implement as much as you
can afford, even if you choose not to purchase there insurance.

WMSchenk

    When your garbage is left at the end of your home/driveway..its
"open market" to literally anyone...tear it up or shred it prior to
garbage day!...even at restaurants or retail stores, ask for the
"carbon" to be returned...don't forget, its still your
property!..this ain't a perfect world! 

I’m sorry, but unless you provide your own forms each time you use
your credit or debit card, you most certainly do not own the carbons,
or anything else provided by the merchant or his bank that you did
not specifically pay for!

On the other hand, hardly anyone actually MAKES carbons anymore, with
nearly all transactions happening electronically.

Lee

 On the other hand, hardly anyone actually MAKES carbons anymore,
with nearly all transactions happening electronically.

For the most part, this is true. However, there are those of us who
do not have storefronts who use credit card services. I use a good
old fashioned “knucklebuster” and I use forms that are pressure
sensitive, two-parts with no carbon involved. I keep the original and
the client gets the copy. I have to have the original to help protect
me from unnecessary charge backs.

Betty

I am or used to be a commercial locksmith, If you want or need any
consulting on security or safes just drop me a email, I would be
happy to answer any questions you may have. @doolittle