Hi everyone, I recently sent some 14 kt jewelry to a refiner and I don’t have much experience with this. What I sent was all marked 14 kt and there were no stones, clasps or chains. I expected to get around 58% payout on it before fees, but they paid 50% before fees. When I inquired, they said that 14 kt jewelry only assays to between 53% and 56% and after melting it loses another 2-4%. Since I don’t really know what I’m doing, I just wanted to check here before I send more to them. I did search here before sending for info about refiners and that helped a lot. Thank you for any advice!
Cher
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This is a trick some refiners use.
14 kt can in worst case be 13.5 since that is what the law allows.
Melting losses should be minimal, and those losses will be the refiners when they clean up their flues and melting areas.
They sometimes still insist there are.
We have been discussing this several times over at GRF.
But, it all comes down to how and what you agree to, when you send them your material.
Can you disclose which refiner this is?
I feel like what I agreed to shows my inexperience with this. I thought that any refiner could possibly say that my scrap assayed lower than what I expected, but this one had the lowest fee. I didn’t know that the law allows jewelry to be marked 14 kt and be much lower than 58.3%. I sent to Midwest Refineries and I’m not saying that I think I was cheated, I just need a little advice so I know what to expect in the future 
That is one of the refineries, that has had some less than favorable feed backs.
But one also need to consider the amount of metal and how you are payed.
Small lots with direct payouts often command less favorable conditions.
And do read the terms thoroughly.
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Does your refiner agree to pay 100% of gold value - or some percentage of that? And does it depend on the size of the batch? I use Elemetal, they pay 98% of gold value, no refining fee - so long as the batch is mostly gold. I do test the major bits I’m sending so I know what’s going on.
Judy H
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They pay 95% I was ok with that and the $35 wire transfer fee. They said that my 14 kt scrap was only 50% pure. They didn’t melt and test it. It does say on the website that if less than 3 troy ounces are are sent that they would apply an “average” purity, so i agreed to that as well. I think i will use a different refiner for the next batch.
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which refiners do anyone recommend for gold and silver? Does anyone do electrolytic refining that gives a much purer product? or does everyone do "fire refining’? Looking for a reputable refiner to send metals to.
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Hi judyh, I was looking at Elemental and it looks like they require a dealer account to be set up. I don’t think I can set one up right now.
Whereas Elemental refinery does require an account, they are very reputable. If (depending on your scale) you can set one up in the future it would definitely something to consider, even if you have to hold onto metal a bit longer. Gold holds its value.
Best of luck
I don’t recall a lot of trouble setting up an account. Jewelry is a hobby for me, but I have a tax number and have registered my business name with our county…Rob
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Regarding using Elemetal for refining - If you have a tax number - which you need to purchase wholesale - and have been buying jewelry metals in the past, I think you could set up an account. Call them, they are personable and very helpful one on one. I especially like to drop off my metal and have it weighed in front of me. They have many locations.
The need for setting up an account has to do with federal regulations that attempt to keep criminals out of selling precious stolen metals.
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I used to have a tax number years ago but it’s lost and expired… getting a new tax ID number should not be a problem?..If Elemental is honest and fair, it’s worth sending my stash to them.
Do they do silver also as well as gold? I did talk to Midwestern Refiners and was put off by their high commissions (20%) plus insurance, handling, shipping costs extra… I also asked about having the metals returned as investment grade silver and gold bullion… another approximate 20% ($4/ oz. silver) plus shipping handling and insurance…
I’ve used Elemetal for years. Fair, great return, and excellent customer service. I’ve refined, silver, gold (various karats), palladium, and platinum. They also have a service if you have jewelry with tons of stones where they’ll send it to the main headquarters for refining and return the stones to you.
you have to be a business with a tax ID to use their services? If so, I will need to get a tax ID. I haven’t been a business with a tax ID for a couple of decades.
Call Elemetal and get their form for doing business. Then you can accurately figure out what to do. Federal regulations are part of the deal. Judy H
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thanks, I did call them… all they need is an EIN number… will submit an application for one. Had an old TIN number and a name for a business when I was making and selling jewelry as a hobby 25 years ago… I am liquidating my accumulated stuff now… Still have to sort thru a lot of junk before I can do anything… again, thanks for your suggestion.
I submitted a request for a EIN number to the IRS… expect to get it in 4 weeks, which gives me time to rummage thru my pile of junk… (everything of value is hidden in a pile of junk, no housebreaker would look there)… just a question for anyone: how much does it cost to get your precious metals refined and returned as investment grade bullion?.. I bought 25 lbs of scrap sterling 25 years ago and don’t have the records for my basis… purchase between $2.50 to $3.00 per ounce… If I sell the metals in return for cash, I will have to pay a large capital gains tax… returning the metals as investment grade bullion is something that I can keep, is liquid, and can be sold piecemeal to avoid paying a lump sum of taxes.
@jsfandskh If you are talking about elemental, they charge 1.85 dollars per melt plus 8 percent (I believe, talked to a guy and that’s what I was told). You could also view their charts online. I was told by same person that you can ‘withdraw’ your money out in PM form or cash, I do live 20 minutes from one of their locations so that might affect something. Just give them a call, their customer service is absolutely wonderful.
Hope that helps, good luck.
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Thanks for the tip…I already spoke to someone in Denver, which is the closest refinery to me. The person who answered the phone was quite helpful. 8% commission is quite reasonable… Some other refiners have quoted 20%… I am awaiting the arrival of my EIN number that I submitted to the IRS last week… will take about a month to arrive… all they need is an EIN number. I had one years ago when I sold some jewelry but it’s lost and expired… I had bought a lot of silver cutting scrap ages ago for $2.50 to $4.00 per ounce. also have about 3 or 4 ounces of 18K gold that I used bullion coin gold to alloy with silver and copper down from 22K to 18K… that was when gold dropped as low as $250/ounce…Since it was so long ago, I don’t have the records of how I paid for how much precious metal… if sold, I can’t calculate my basis which would involve a big capital gain… the amount of silver is in excess of 24 lbs…some of the silver was refined by oxygen injection while superheated, burning out the copper, to spitting silver fineness which is close to fine silver…nothing is less than sterling, but the entire lot will have to be melted down and assayed…so far as payment, it might be better to take delivery of hallmarked investment grade PM…despite added insurance and shipping costs. I could actually drive down to the Denver refinery but it’s 6.5 hours from where I live…I don’t expect to make a lot of money off of all the precious metals that I have… PM’s have gone up tenfold since I bought them… however inflation over the same period of time makes the current spot price break even, while the cost of goods and services has risen by the same amount also… I’m just trying to downsize and get rid of stuff that I know that I will never use again… will need to sell a large stash of unset stones also… that is a real problem since valuation for gemstones are all over the place…I am giving away my rolling mill but someone already has first dibs on it… the rest of the tools are all hand tools and not worth the effort selling… when the time comes to relocate, I will post my supplies as free for the taking, taker pays shipment.
thank you Micheal… see my response…