recycling something that might otherwise go to waste (though in nature, hardly anything ever goes to waste)
What we need to do is find a market for all the trash left on the
side of the road. If people thought it had value, they would be
fighting each other over it instead of stealing copper from peoples
homes causing hundreds of dollars of damage for a few bucks.
Different avenue, but sort of same thought.
Roxy
If we were free to farm these now "protected" animals, as we do with trees and cows, they'd prosper as renewable resources if the demand warranted. This won't make the vegans happy though.
My opinion, as a vegan-vegetarian depending on what is available,
the majority of vegan’s diets are based on health benefits rather
than issues with animal rights.
For some reason. vegans instill fear in people and make normally
ration= al people act like bigots. Especially the bacon lovers. People
seem blithely unaware of how diet affects their body. Most of those
concerned about the air quality of their environment regarding toxic
fumes and chemicals do more long term harm by stuffing their faces
with food that is devoid of anything nutritionally beneficial. Fat,
salt, and white flour are staples. The nummy nums we eat for comfort
burn down the house.
Seems as we get older, diet recommendations lean more toward
vegetarian, seems like the info points toward food we should have
eaten all along to prevent or preclude health issues. Just remember,
you cannot heal damage with diet, you can= only prevent more damage.
After something health related happens requiring medical attention,
diet will not reverse the issue, just hopefully slow the progression.
I happen to have a lot of ivory, I acquired elephant ivory over 30
years ago, and I have a whole elephant tusk, mastodon tusk, fossil
walrus tusk and teeth. i would work more in elephant ivory if it was
legal, beautiful material to work, and beautiful to look at.
Medicare kicks in next month for me…and after a year of two
kidney stones, two sinus operations, skin cancer, and antibiotic
resistant bacterial infection, I feel I know of what I speak of, in
my not so humble opinion.
Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.
If we were free to farm these now "protected" animals, as we do with trees and cows, they'd prosper as renewable resources if the demand warranted. This won't make the vegans happy though.
One of the reasons trees and cows are “farmed”, is that we are
capable of farming those species. Elephants, Rhinos, Whales, and
similar sources of various forms of ivory just aren’t species so
amenable to farming. For one thing, they need much more space. They
also are “comfortable” only in smaller groups, or as individuals,
not herds. They take much longer to produce young, have much longer
life spans, and need much more of those life spans to produce the
desired ivory, whereas cows, though they can have natural life spans
of 20 years or more, can be slaughtered for meat in just a couple
years, or for milk, housed in tiny stalls for almost their whole life
while being kept virtually constantly pregnant in order to keep them
producing the milk. Just try doing that to an elephant. First, they
just won’t physically tolerate it. Second, they’re bright enough to
figure out how to either get out, or kill you after they go crazy
from that treatment… It’s hard enough trying to get a simple game
reserve area set up to protect these species. The areas needed are
larger than many geographic regions can easily support without
causing friction with local human populations who also want that
land, and simply keeping a population of these animals alive and
healthy and thriving isn’t so simple… Commercially farming them? I
sure hope we never try to go in that direction.
Peter
Also if you want to join wires accurately together stick the ends in the potato, they are held firmly whilst you solder the other ends
Wow Hamish! What a great idea. This is something I’ve wanted to play
around with this but thought the usual plaster of Paris method was
far too involved and fiddly. Just get a potato out of the fridge and
you’re good to go!
Helen
UK
Further to discussion of using remains of once-living creatures in
art, please see this…
American Masterworks - Allen Moe
Artist Allen Moe lives on the Skagit River tidal flats and
Guemes Island. Formerly a biologist, his cloaked pottery and
castings reflect keen observation of the world around us
http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/ep7z2b
As a woodworker - some of the same issues as other posters have
mentioned arise in my mind. Whether there is pain or cruelty
involved is only one part of the question. Creating beautiful /
useful things out of wood creates a market and then a demand which
can exceed the ability of the natural system to keep up. Moral
issues do crop up so durned inconveniently, don’t they?
Marty
Hello everyone,
It has come to my attention that the link I sent for the potter Alan
Moe, may not be easy to open. This link relates to dilemmas about
working with dead animals etc.
So here’s another approach. Whatever you think, the work is
beautiful and his approach is interesting.
I found the link by googling “Alan Moe” and the link comes up fourth
one down the list as “American Masterworks / Alan Moe” It is a short
film by the Washington State dept of something-or-other which
features Moe and his works, lifestyle, philosophy etc. About ten
minutes long. He is a very pleasant-looking man and I enjoyed
watching it and was happy to know he was still alive as of 2008 when
the film was made since we hadn’t followed his career closely since
our early contacts with his work in the 1990’s or maybe earlier -
can’t really remember. Never met him. Anyway, maybe I sent the link
in some fashion that disabled it or whatever. Try the google
approach and see what you find. I’m sorry if my earlier post did not
get you there.
http://www.ganoksin.com/gnkurl/ep7z2b
Marty - in Victoria, where it is time to go to the pub and play some
music with friends.
Just remember, you cannot heal damage with diet, you can= only prevent more damage. After something health related happens requiring medical attention, diet will not reverse the issue, just hopefully slow the progression.
Sometimes this is true, but not always. In the specific case of
cardiovascular disease, if one has it as a result of long term
dietary practice, ie too much fat, animal based proteins, all the
rest, and one then switches to a strict vegan low fat diet, it turns
out that it IS possible to at least partially reverse the process.
Not in all cases, and to a variable degree, but the work of Dr. Dean
Ornish and Dr. Calwell B. Esselstyn, to name just two, clearly shows
that switching to such a diet does more than just stop the process.
It stabilizes the existing plaque formations, so one can drastically
reduce the risk of future heart attack or stroke, already a
considerable improvement over the state of affairs prior to the
switch, AND, in many cases, there is at least some reversal of the
process, resulting in increasing levels of blood flow and reduced
blockage, often enough to reduce or eliminate existing chest pains
and symptoms, and improved and increasing tolerance for exercise and
activity that they may have not been able to do before. Many male
patients even report improvements in ED, another common marker for
cardiovascular disease… Again, this is variable, with some people
seeing only a little of such improved blood flow, but a few have seen
really severe blockages completely disappear. Some patients in Dr.
Esselstyn’s study came to him having been told that conventional
cardiology could do nothing more for them, and they didn’t have long
to live, and with the switch in diet, many of those folks were still
doing just fine over 20 years later. Take a look at Dr. Esselstyn’s
web site, heartattackproof.com for more details.
highly recommend his book. It’s the key reason I switched my diet
last fall. And I’d mention too, that in February I had a cardiac
stress test, after just under six months on this diet (I had 6x
bypass grafts put in in '98, so these are done every couple years).
My doctor not only said things were stable, but suggested that it
seemed the test results were actually slightly better. That’s the
first time I’ve gotten that result, and that’s after only six
months. I continue to shed excess weight (down to 185 now, from 220 a
year and a half ago), and my cholesterol levels are lower than
they’ve ever been. From my perspective, at least, this is doing a bit
more than just stopping further damage. And that’s despite the fact
that I’ve been diabetic since I was 16, which tosses a nice monkey
wrench into almost any health issue I have…
Peter
Congratulations, Peter. What you are doing is not easy, but you are
showing it is possible. With every best wish in the world for your
continuing success in beating your doctor’s worst fears, Barbara on
a night when the Supermoon minus one can’t be seen for the clouds.
I recently “salvaged” an ancient piano that was in such a state of
decay that restoration was hopeless. I got a lot of antique elephant
ivory from the keys. I also saved some nice ebony wood which was
used to make the black keys. Both these materials are restricted. The
fact that these particular pieces were “taken from the wild” early in
the last century makes their use legal, or so I have been assured. I
personally feel absolutely no guilt in using them appropriately. As
a professional biologist (Professor Emeritus) I am aware that the
pauperization of our natural world is largely due to other forms of
neglect, avarice, greed, neglect and ignorance rather than to the
use of natural materials for making jewelry. However, as damage to
the global life net is occurring at startling rates, care and action
should be taken. Having some knowledge about where power lies and
the about the inertia or hysteresis in social response, I am
currently unsure about what action would be both appropriate and
functional. I spent the better part of the last century working on
this problem. In the face of what I see now, I don’t need any extra
windmills to tilt. Take great care but be rational. I can discuss in
detail the Malthusian principal and list, with examples, why
populations crash. This has been certain for far longer than I have
lived. Our culture and the human species often gives mouthwork to
these principles, acts upon them in narrow circumstances, and then
proceeds with the program that says, “Well, you can’t stop progress”.
I have shouted and written many times questioning: a) why not? b)
what is progress?
I will use my piano parts with secure knowledge that it is harmless
and fair. Remember, please take great care but please be rational.
I will probably be sorry I wrote this because it will probably draw
abuse but that has seldom stopped me in the past.
Gerald Vaughan
One of the reasons trees and cows are "farmed", is that we are capable of farming those species.
Just because these people choose to not harvest what they sow
doesn’t mean they cannot.
On its face, the debate seems clear: Save the elephants. But reality
paints a far different picture:
Hi Richard,
My opinion, as a vegan-vegetarian depending on what is available, the majority of vegan's diets are based on health benefits rather than issues with animal rights.
That’s an interesting point of view, I eat meat (a lot of it) for
health reasons, I have to. It’s a matter of quality of life, and
especially with fish it’s essential for my blood.
I eat every meat, bar pork, as pork is bad for my skin, and I’m too
old to have a spotty face. I eat what vegetables and fruits I can
(also in quantity), but there are families of furit and vege that
that are simply bad for me.
I eat an enormous amount of food, and yet I’m not overweight, in
fact I’ve lost a lot of weight… I have to resize my wedding band…
again!
I eat what I do because I have to, not because I choose to.
However I have no malice or fear of what others choose to eat.
Regards Charles A.
P.S. I’m thinking of not resizing my wedding band, but making an
insert… thoughts?
Congratulations, Peter. What you are doing is not easy, but you are showing it is possible.
Barbara, you know, the funny thing is actually, it IS easy to do.
Unlike many diet plans that require record keeping, calculations,
specific routines, and all the rest, this one is simple. It amounts
to a fairly simple list of things not to eat. So you go through your
kitchen and get rid of all the prohibited items. After that, eat as
much as you like of what’s left. The urge to snack on something
forbidden is met simply by the lack of that item. No nice bit of
cheese in the fridge? OK, what’s available… The hardest part of
making the change is simply deciding to do so. Then there’s a bit of
a learning curve in learning some new cooking skills, but that’s
relatively minor. Dr. Esselstyn’s book already gives a bunch of
cooking tips and recipies, and I’ve found lots more when I went and
looked for similar cook books. Kind of fun exploring foods choices
I’d not paid attention to before. The biggest limit I’ve found is
when I want to go out to eat. Few restaurants offer fat free vegan
fare. But many, when asked, will figure out how to make something I
can eat, so with a bit of planning, that too works out fine.
For me, being a type 1 diabetic for 44 years (since I was 16),
knowing all that time that heart disease or similar was most likely
to be my eventual demise, that sword of damocles hanging over my
head most of my adult life… Well, along comes this new bit of info
which, when I started looking into it, wasn’t just some scheme
dreamed up by yet another diet guru which would be disprooved in
another year. Instead, it was solid info, backed up by long term
research by a substantial number of doctors. And it promised, in no
uncertain terms, to change the rules for my future. That was a no
brainer of a decision to make. So far, the degree to which it’s had
a positive effect has been surprising. I had not, for example,
expected to loose all this weight, as all prior attempts to do so had
failed. And with this diet, I’m not counting calories or limiting
amounts at all. Yet I’m still loosing the excess weight. An even
greater surprise had to do with my blood sugar levels. Prior to
making this change, I’d have expected that changing to this diet,
which is much higher in starch and carbs, would have been bad for my
diabetic control. Surprisingly, that has not been the case. My
glycosylated hemoglobin test results have remained the same. Overall,
I feel better than before doing this. It’s not hard to follow a
routine that feels good like this… Rather than this being hard to
do, it’s actually rather liberating, as it seems like I finally have
a really clear idea of what I’m doing, and why, in terms of diet.
That was not the case trying to follow any number of so-called
suggested diabetic diet recomendations, which tend to be all over the
map depending on who you ask…
Peter
Funny thing about Elephants, is that recently they had a cull, as
the number of Elephants mean they’re no longer on the endangered
species list.
That was a success story, and I believe it could be reflected in
other endangered species.
It’s more about managing a resource. In a way if the resources were
managed properly the species wouldn’t be endangered. It can be done,
if the recovery of the Elephants is an example.
In Australia, it’s illegal for us to eat turtle, but our native
inhabitants are allowed to hunt and eat the species, as their impact
is minimal. It’s about managing an endangered species.
Regards Charles A.
This is a added note about changing diet. Most people know that if
their sink continually gets clogged up, they need to stop putting
grease and junk down the drain. Wonder why they can’t figure out to
stop doing that to the pipes they depend on for their life everyday?
Roxy
Marty,
The desire to create artful objects runs pretty deep.
My brain wouldn’t have ordinarily taken me to where I would consider
using the materials Allen Moe used, but it is easy enough to see that
the line from a rotting fish corpse to an art piece isn’t very
straight. Not everyone’s cup of tea for sure. Inspiring though and I
did like the finished pieces. Cool that he did this.
J Collier Metalsmith
I got a lot of antique elephant ivory from the keys. I also saved some nice ebony wood which was used to make the black keys. Both these materials are restricted. The fact that these particular pieces were "taken from the wild" early in the last century makes their use legal,
It may depend on where you are. I believe California has outlawed the
sale of even antique ivory. Apparently there are legal ways to import
ebony, or at least Gibson claims the ebony used in their guitars is
legal.
Al Balmer
Pine City, NY
Just because these people choose to not harvest what they sow doesn't mean they cannot.
The dried flesh of dead infants appears to be the not-so-secret
ingredient in a health supplement that is reportedly being smuggled
out of China.
The performance-enhancement pills, touted for increasing vitality
and sex drive, have been found in the luggage of tourists and in
international mail, according to South Korean authorities.
They said they had confiscated nearly 17,500 of the human flesh
capsules since last August, according to a report in the Wall Street
Journal.
South Korean authorities warned that the pills could be dangerous to
human health.
“This is gross, as well as creepy,” said Dr. William Schaffner,
chairman of preventive medicine at Vanderbilt University Medical
Center, who consults regularly with the Centers for Disease Control.
“We have no idea how this material is processed and under what
circumstances,” he said. “If it’s not done in a hygienic fashion to
make assurances infections are excluded, it could contain viruses as
well as bacteria.”
The dried human tissue may also not have been sterilized, according
to Schaffner. “It’s an extremely dubious for an operation like this
with the potential for infection complications.”
Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.
That was a success story, and I believe it could be reflected in other endangered species.
Somehow, I can’t quite manage to see how any scheme requiring a
“cull” of elephants could be either “Funny” or a success. These are
highly intelligent social beings. Any need to reduce their numbers,
presumably by killing some of them, is an unmitigated tragedy. Now,
if they can be relocated to another area better able to support them,
and that relocation involved intact social groups/families, instead
of “kidnapping” individuals and expecting them, dumped into a strange
territory with no familiar family members around, to do well…
That might be termed a success.
Peter
The Ebony is interesting! The local Wood Shop, Rockler,
carries Ebony. I bought a block of it. It is covered with heavy
"Wax" and I see that as it is drying out, it is starting to crack,
which is what I would rather have before, than after, when I use it
in any jewelry. People are using some of it to make pen casings,
which seem to be quite popular…at least here in Colorado.
I know of one jeweler who has used the ebony on her lathe to make
components for earrings, and they are put on the market - at least
locally. Interesting!
Rose Marie Christison
Somehow, I can't quite manage to see how any scheme requiring a "cull" of elephants could be either "Funny" or a success.
Quite right, sorry Peter it was a poor choice of words on my part.
The funny was more of a quirky thing, or strange thing, not funny
“ha-ha”.
The success is that the Elephants are so numerous that their
population numbers “needed” to be reduced. Meaning that they are no
longer on the endangered species list (which I think is a success).
It was a pity that they had to be culled, but it was their only
option available to them, to stop over population, which is a bad
thing for any species (even ours imo).
Regards Charles A.