Ph of Pickling Soulution

[Charles_D_Eichhorn1]

Question for the Chemically active?

Does anyone know the optimum Ph level for pickling solution for
removing fire scale? Either Sodium bisulfate or Sulfric Acid, etc…

[M.G]

Charles D. Eichhorn wrote:

[Thomas_Roginski]

The acid concentration of the pickling solution is too high for pH to have
much meaning. You should make it up in the concentrations suggested and use
it until it stops working correctly and discard.

I suppose everyone knows this but:

1. If you are making up pickling solutions from concentrated sulfuric acid,
   use great care.
2. NEVER add water to acid but add the acid to cool water SLOWLY and mix.
   Cool the solution down. MUCH heat is developed when concentrated sulfuric
   acid meets water.
3. ALL solutions of sulfuric will cause holes in clothing, destroy paper,
   etc. The problem is that because sulfuric acid boils at a much higher
   temperature than water, when the water evaporates very strong sulfuric acid
   is left regardless of the starting concentration. Use washing soda to
   neautralize all spills or use sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) for hands,
   clothes, etc.

Sorry if I am saying what everyone knows, but safety first.

[John_Burgess1]

Question for the Chemically active?

Cautionary tale:

A jeweller, finding life a bore, drank some aitch two ess oh four
But jeweller’s father, an MD., gave him cee ay cee oh three.
Now he’s neutralised, it’s true,
But he’s full of cee oh two.

He knew the drill, eh?

        /\
       / /    John Burgess
      / /      
     / /__   johnb@ts.co.nz
    / / \ \
   / (___) \
  (_________)

[John_Burgess1]

Question for the Chemically active?

Does anyone know the optimum Ph level for pickling solution for
removing fire scale? Either Sodium bisulfate or Sulfuric Acid, etc…

I use 10% sulphuric acid solution and change it when it begins to have a tinge of blue from the copper in it (put white paper under your glass pickle dish.) If you use a pH indicator even on quite dilute acid it will still read about 2 - 3 as sulphuric acid ionises very freely in water. This acid is so cheap that you can afford not to keep it too long, and the same, of course goes for sodium bisulphate. Did you know that the latter is a byproduct in the manufacture of hydrochloric acid? The sulphuric acid is heated with salt and the resultant HCL gas is passed into water. Which is why bisulphate (NaHSO4) is - or should be - dirt cheap; other than for jewellers it has few uses.
Here endeth the lecture.

        /\
       / /    John Burgess
      / /      
     / /__   johnb@ts.co.nz
    / / \ \
   / (___) \
  (_________)

[Charles_D_Eichhorn1]

Thank You John Burgess for you input:

[Richard_O_Martin1]

John:

I love it!! It scans, it has a beginning, middle and end, and it’s FUNNY!!!
As an English major gone astray into the world’s Second Oldest Profession,
I’ve been gratified the past few days by the discovery that there are many
jewelers out there who are fine wordsmiths as well as gold/silversmiths. I
look forward to further such discoveries.

Rick Martin
MARTIN DESIGNS

[Charles_Lewton-Brain]

I use 10% sulphuric acid solution and change it when it begins to have a
tinge of blue from the copper in it (put white paper under your glass
pickle dish.) If you use a pH indicator even on quite dilute acid it will
still read about 2 - 3 as sulphuric acid ionises very freely in water.
This acid is so cheap that you can afford not to keep it too long, and the
same, of course goes for sodium bisulphate. Did you know that the latter
is a byproduct in the manufacture of hydrochloric acid? The sulphuric
acid is heated with salt and the resultant HCL gas is passed into water.
Which is why bisulphate (NaHSO4) is - or should be - dirt cheap; other
than for jewellers it has few uses.
/ / John Burgess

Hi John, a couple of notes to add, sulfuric acid solutions if left on their
own concentrate (or evaporate) until they reach 49% acid which is
hazardous, not to mention the storage issues of the containers and the
possibilities ofr breakage while handling the bootles (seen this-always
hold the bottle with two hands, one underneath…) The reason to use Sparex
(sodium bisulfate) is that it is a slat and dissociates in water to make a
constant dilution of sulfuric acid, more dissociates as the acid is used in
reacting with copper oxides maintaint the dilution. Sodium bisulfate is the
main ingredient in toilet bowl cleaners (Vanish for example) which may say
something about disposal. It is also called PH reducer or swimming pool
acid and can be bought far more cheaply from the swimming pool supply than
the jewelers, if you want more even cheaper janitorial suppliers sell drums
for toilet cleaning. It is also used for picling steel in the steel
industry.

Note that a dilute solution of Alum (from the supermarket) (perhaps 30
grams or so (1oz) to about 3.8 liters of water (1 gallon) is apparently all
that is needed. The solution does not outgas as much as a sparex one and
copper flashing does not occur if you put your steel tweezwers in -or so I
hear. I’m used to Sodium bisulfate and bnuy it at the swimming pool supply.

Charles

Charles

Brain Press
Box 1624, Ste M
Calgary, Alberta, T2P 2L7
Canada

tel: 403-263-3955
fax: 403-283-9053
Email: @Charles_Lewton-Brain

[John_Cynthia_MidLife]

Question for the Chemically active?

Does anyone know the optimum Ph level for pickling solution for =

removing fire scale? Either Sodium bisulfate or Sulfuric Acid, etc…

I use 10% sulphuric acid solution and change it when it begins to have a =
tinge of blue from the copper in it (put white paper under your glass pi=
ckle dish.) If you use a pH indicator even on quite dilute acid it will =
still read about 2 - 3 as sulphuric acid ionises very freely in water. =
This acid is so cheap that you can afford not to keep it too long, and th=
e same, of course goes for sodium bisulphate. Did you know that the latt=
er is a byproduct in the manufacture of hydrochloric acid? The sulphuric=
acid is heated with salt and the resultant HCL gas is passed into water.=
Which is why bisulphate (NaHSO4) is - or should be - dirt cheap; other =
than for jewellers it has few uses. =

Here endeth the lecture. =

           /\
          / /    John Burgess
         / /      =

        / /__   johnb@ts.co.nz
       / / \ \
      / (___) \
     (_________)

orchid@ganoksin.com

John,

I don’t know about anyone else, but every time I get a message from you, I
get 2 of them and one of them hangs my mail so that I have to give a key
stroke to "Fetch again, Leave it or Trash it. Do you have your system set
odd or is it at my end? Just letting you know this as if I don’t tell you
you can’t know it is happening.

John

John Dach and Cynthia Thomas
Maiden Metals
a div. of We are given eyes to see and ears to hear,
MidLife Crisis Enterprises but what is required of the mind?
PO BX 44
Philo, CA 95466
707-895-2635(phone/fax)

[John_Burgess1]

John,

I don’t know about anyone else, but every time I get a message from you, I
get 2 of them and one of them hangs my mail so that I have to give a key
stroke to "Fetch again, Leave it or Trash it. Do you have your system set
odd or is it at my end? Just letting you know this as if I don’t tell you
you can’t know it is happening.

John

Hallo John Dach & Cynthia - sorry that you are having problems, but I haven’t heard a similar complaint from the others, and when I get my input returned from Ganoksin as part of the forum it is generally OK. I’m not all that compuliterate, I’m afraid. I have an Amiga and use a mailer called YAM (“Yet Another Mailer”!) which is very fast and excellent. I will leave my logo out of this one and see what happens - mail me direct, to save clogging up the forum, please.
May I suggest that you include your e-mail address with your signature?
Cheers, john Burgess (johnb@ts.co.nz)

[John_Cynthia_MidLife]

Hallo John Dach & Cynthia - sorry that you are having problems, but I
haven’t heard a similar complaint from the others, and when I get my input
returned from Ganoksin as part of the forum it is generally OK. I’m not
all that compuliterate, I’m afraid. I have an Amiga and use a mailer
called YAM (“Yet Another Mailer”!) which is very fast and excellent. I
will leave my logo out of this one and see what happens - mail me direct,
to save clogging up the forum, please.
May I suggest that you include your e-mail address with your signature?
Cheers, john Burgess (johnb@ts.co.nz)

orchid@ganoksin.com

To Unsubscribe: Email orchid-request@ganoksin.com Bodysubscribe
subjectank

John,

Added our e-mail address as you suggested, thanks for the thought. As
to the messages from you, this one too was duplicated and hung my mailer
(Eudora) for one of the messages. We get about 300 messages per day and
your messages are the only ones that hang us that I am aware of. Let’s see
if there is any other replies on the list about this in the next day or so
and if not, I thing I will contact Ochids list server and ask them. Best
to you,

John

John Dach and Cynthia Thomas
Maiden Metals
a div. of We are given eyes to see and ears to hear,
MidLife Crisis Enterprises but what is required of the mind?
PO BX 44
Philo, CA 95466
707-895-2635(phone/fax)
@John_Cynthia_MidLife