Hi Helen,
There have been several good suggestions. One more to consider.
About 18 months ago you wrote that you were using a flexshaft for
cleanup instead of the polishing motor. Just in case that’s still
your situation, this might be the source of your problem.
I’ve found that I get the best finish when I use a cutting compound
on the polishing motor (such as White Diamond) after sanding and
before the final polish.
Regards,
Jamie
Helen,
One more thought. There is a comprehensive article on Ganoksin
regarding polishing and buffing.
As several have suggested, look at the section on cutting compounds
(bobbing, Tripoli, white diamond, crocus, and Grey Star).
Jamie
I still think you’re over complicating things Helen.
I’ve never work hardened my pieces with steel shot, i don’t check
with a Loupe for file marks or ultrasonic between polishing stages. I
never use Rouge on silver as i find it sticks to the metal. I get a
nice bright finish using Green, blue or white Dialux. Also keep your
pieces moving in a circular motion when held against a polishing mop
or it can create an uneven surface.
Finally, don’t over polish items or you can rip out the solder
between joints.
Jon
helen, an important thing about finishing surfaces is that pounding
the surface with tripoli will give you a much different effect (lose
detail) than if you sand it to a clean 320-400, i prefer the clean
sand then light tripoli. white diamond etc,think that it must be 90%
polished before buffing, that means clean sanding a #6 file is
too/very fine, it is nice to get sandpaper on it to soften
flats/edges if desired, files wraped in sandpaper, and sanding
discs for flexshaft, also split mandrils or sewingneedles with
wrapped sandpaper in flex also i think you should use an optivisor
or magnifying lamp as opposed to a loupe, gives you more to look at
and finally you will not miss a thing if you use sunlight, or strong
lighting and sand with your fingers as much as possible, sanding is
love, dave
And another thing = not everyone uses the tumbler. I find that 15
minutes is the max I tumble…that orange peel occurs if it is
tumbled longer! I use a mixture of steel shot with Rio’s Super
Sunsheen Tumbling fluid…excellent results.
Rose Marie Christison
What about a burnished shine, a bright cut, a very unique scraped finish, or some of the many wonderful other textures?
Hopefully everybody’s thoroughly confused ;}
Alastaire’s quote above is fine, until you look at that class of
craftspeople who use texture because they are unable to polish (like
nobody knows…) You still need to know how to polish, to be a
successful jeweler.
I have an assortment of giant Cratex wheels - one 6" that’s 35 years
old, several 4". Those are good for something like going around the
seam on a belt buckle, stuff like that. The small wheels most people
are referring to are really not intended for sanding large areas,
and they don’t work very well at it, either. Yes, they sand, but
it’s near impossible to get a good, unrippled, unfaceted surface. Or
let us say there are better ways to do it. Small wheels are intended
for small work - detailing…
Second day of apprenticeship: Get a piece of lath around a foot long
and a full sheet of emery paper. Lay the lath on one long edge of the
paper… Use a dull knife (a bench blade) and score the edge on the
other side.Turn the lath and the first surface of emery up, score
again, turn, score, turn, score, etc. In the end I just pull off the
emery and creaset strongly, and it will stay put by and large. Some
people staple it oruse a rubber band. Full sheet emery stick…
I think, I can demystify the subject of polishing.
But first let’s take care of some myths.
“Good polisher worth his weight in gold”
Good polisher worth $15 dollars an hour and not a penny more. Unless
polisher is a complete fool, his contribution to the final appearance
is relatively minor.
“One polishing compound is better than another”
From practical point of view, not really. There are variations, but
they do not really translate into the real difference.
What makes a real difference is crystalline structure of the metal.
The best polisher in the world could not polish soft coarse-grained
metal. The quality of polish starts with casting ingot, rolling it
correctly, and working it properly. If jewellery comes into polishing
room with tight crystalline structure and good work-hardened,
polishing is easy and results are excellent.
Practical advise would be:
if you work with casting and having problems with polishing, change
your caster. Also remember that even the best casting must be chased
to compress the surface, and do not overlook burnishing.
If you hand-fabricate, pay attention to how you cast your ingot;
always hand-forge it; roll in one direction only; preserve this
direction while you work; never quench the metal, but let it cool
slowly.
Leonid Surpin
Plus there's more to it than just getting a shine - it's also blending metal and refining curves and getting everything just so.
This much I know hence me asking the questions. But I do like a
shine and am working on getting as perfect a mirror polish as I can
and that’s why I want to get the foundations right before going onto
the polishing stage. I personally like either a smooth mirror polish,
or a combination of textured metal and smooth, both of which are
polished. I’ve tried the satin-type finish, but find that it just
encourages tarnish sooner than a high polish.
It seems like I’m doing too much, so I’ll gather all the advice I’ve
been given, and do some experimenting.
With that said, polishing is also easy, you just need to know the combination.
The polishing stages aren’t my problem. It’s putting unwanted
scratches into the work and failing to get rid of them prior to
polishing - although, as I explained previously, I clearly thought I
had got rid of them. It’s not really a problem of not understanding
the process - it’s a problem of not seeing the scratches before
moving on, or of putting unnecessary scratches in the metal in the
first place and then thinking I’ve got rid of them.
And don't do anything just because - sand it if it needs sanding, don't if it doesn't.
I should have clarified - that’s exactly what I do. When I make a
bezel setting, my ideal scenario is to make the perfect solder
joint, which doesn’t need any filing or sanding at all (apart from
sanding the top and bottom really flat and crisp), and without
getting any horrible firestain, so that there will be no scratches on
the bezel walls from filing whatsoever. This I do achieve some of the
time and it’s great when it happens. Often, it’s when I knock up a
bezel setting really quickly! I only do clean-up if it needs it.
I hope this post doesn’t sound too defensive - that’s not where I’m
coming from at all. I’m just trying to clarify things a little more.
I think I’ve identified the culprits - the rubber wheels - so I’m
going to stick to one file, a couple of grits of sandpaper, then
polish and see if that works better.
Thanks to you John and everyone else who has helped me with this
problem.
Helen
UK
It sounds like you are using a flex shaft to do quite a bit of your polishing, the small size of the wheels makes it quite difficult to buff things flat with these
I’ve got quite adept at doing this and have polished largish, flat
surface quite well. I never keep it still, rather moving it in
circular motions as it does its thing.
A grinding motor from B and Q will do the job,
I do have one, which my husband set up in our garage. It’s now been
dismantled. However, I am moving my workshop back downstairs
tomorrow so that I can use my oxy/propane set-up without my husband
having to set it up for me (which has meant that I could only use it
when he wasn’t working!). So the plan is to set up the polishing
motor again. That should make life a little easier - if I can be
brave enough to use it!
Thanks for the advice Chris.
Helen
UK
Hi Alastair,
Thanks for your reply to my questions.
Why is a perfect mirror polish so ingrained? Is it because of the polishing machine?
Because I simply prefer the look of a polished finish. I do
incorporate texture into my pieces - more and more these days - but
still prefer even the textured parts to be well polished.
Helen
UK
You have to be careful use the files to a minimum so you don't cut grooves.
This is quite odd. I’m getting this advice rather a lot at the
moment, in response to my questions - together with the advice that
I’d be better off using sanding instead of filing. However, I recall
posts in the past which almost slated the use of sandpapers and
similar abrasives, and said that filing was the traditional and
tried and tested method for refining one’s work. It’s all very
confusing sometimes when different people prefer different ways of
doing things.
Files remove metal and sandpaper removes metal. What is the
difference between using the different finenesses of files as
opposed to sandpapers? I know that you can get the papers in very
fine grades and so the scratches caused by those will be much finer
than probably the finest file - and that’s why I’ve used sanding
after filing - but don’t they essentially do the same thing? In other
words, why is one better than the other?
Helen
UK
Hi Jamie,
About 18 months ago you wrote that you were using a flexshaft for cleanup instead of the polishing motor. Just in case that's still your situation, this might be the source of your problem. I've found that I get the best finish when I use a cutting compound on the polishing motor
It’s not the cutting compound stage which is causing my problem.
It’s the rubber wheels and/or course files. I’m quite good at
polishing with the flexshaft, as I never keep it still. I could
easily get rid of the scratches using my course cutting compound and
my flexshaft - but relying on that compound to get rid of these deep
scratches would lose crispness in the design - unless I’ve
misunderstood what you were suggesting? So I’d rather get rid of them
beforehand by preparing the surfaces properly before going onto a
brief spell at the polisher (or flexshaft and small polishing
wheels).
However, I am planning to start using the big polishing motor more
regularly - if I can be brave enough to do so!
Thanks for the input.
Helen
UK
And another thing = not everyone uses the tumbler. I find that 15 minutes is the max I tumble...that orange peel occurs if it is tumbled longer! I use a mixture of steel shot with Rio's Super Sunsheen Tumbling fluid...excellent results.
It’s becoming apparent (and has been said many times) that we are
all different, and work in different ways. My (albeit limited)
experience and scientific approach to what I do has taught me that I
need that tumbling stage. I think that the hard solder I use means
that I am perhaps soldering everything at higher temperatures than
those who prefer medium and easy solders, so I may be softening my
metal more than others. I therefore tumble and do so for two hours in
stainless shot and burnishing compound. Occasionally, it will give a
very slight orange peel effect, but this is soon got rid of with my
two final polishing/buffing steps after setting stones.
I am trying to get a very high polish on my pieces and a very long-
lasting, wear-resistant finish - well, as good as one can get with
sterling silver. So proper preparation before going to polish,
including my tumbling step, followed by a brief period of time
polishing/buffing is the way forward for what I’m trying to achieve.
The things I make for myself and my girls are my experiments. I have
found that I achieve much longer-lasting finishes when I prep well,
tumble and polish briefly, than without tumbling and or polishing a
piece into submission trying to get a good finish.
Helen
UK
Hi Jon,
I've never work hardened my pieces with steel shot,
I know my experience is limited - two and a bit years - but I have
found in that short time, that if I don’t tumble my pieces, any
polished finish is very short-lived. And in fact any polished finish
is difficult or impossible to achieve without that tumbling step. I
don’t know whether my soldering technique is over-annealing the
metal and making it very soft because I only use hard solder? And I
won’t be talked out of that I’m afraid. I love the plumb sterling
hard solder I use. I love its colour match and how beautifully it
flows, even if it is at a higher temperature than a lot of solders.
It gives me the best joints I’ve ever had and it gives very strong
joints too so I don’t have the worry of things falling apart when
they’re out of my hands. So, I may be making my sterling silver very
soft and so I choose to do the tumbling process for two hours in
steel shot and burnishing compound, after doing my pre-polish
processes, but before stone-setting and final polish. I’m going to
use files less and sandpaper more to make sure that my surfaces are
prepped properly before going in the tumbler.
i don't check with a Loupe for file marks
If I use a loupe and am still missing the scratches I’ve put in
there and haven’t yet got rid of, then I definitely need to use at
least the loupe.
or ultrasonic between polishing stages.
I use the ultrasonic to get rid of all traces of polishing compound
before going onto the next one. How else can I do that and not risk
cross contamination and further scratching with the courser
compounds? I’ve tried soap and water, but that didn’t work. BTW, I
always use a fresh wheel for each piece of jewellery and each stage,
although I will sometimes demote one I’ve used for second cut to use
as a first cut, which is obviously not a problem contaminating a
course cut polishing stage with specks of finer polishing compound.
I am very careful.
I never use Rouge on silver as i find it sticks to the metal.
It only sticks until the piece gets hot enough from polishing - then
it doesn’t stick at all. The ultrasonic gets rid of any that’s stuck
in the crevices. Rouge is the only polish that has enabled me to get
the mirror shine I’m after.
Also keep your pieces moving in a circular motion when held against a polishing mop or it can create an uneven surface.
I do this, and polishing is not the problem.
Finally, don't over polish items or you can rip out the solder between joints.
I spend very little time polishing as I try to prepare surfaces
properly before going onto that stage. And I am careful not to pull
solder out of joints. Actually, I’ve not found that a problem since
I’ve started to use my hard plumb solder. Medium and easy pull out of
joints very easily - another reason I don’t like using them. The only
thing that pulls solder out of my joints, is the fact that I do all
subsequent joints using the hard solder, and so sometimes a little
solder will leak out of a previous joint. If this happens, I just
flow some more into the offending joint and clean up afterwards -
once again an invisible joint.
I apologise for countering everything you have said. It may appear
that I don’t appreciate your input, but I really do. It’s all good
to hear what other people do. I have a very scientific approach to
what I do (because of my science background), so I have developed
various techniques over time, for very specific reasons, not just for
the sake of it, and will be continuing with tumbling, using hard
solder and using rouge, etc. However, my problem is in putting
scratches there and not seeing them, ie thinking they’re gone and
prematurely moving onto the next step. The most ideal scenario would
be not to put them there in the first place, and so I will be using
abrasive paper more than files and better lighting to ensure that any
scratches are gone. I will continue with my polishing regimen, as
that is not my problem and I spend very little time doing the actual
polishing - and it gives me a good shine which I like.
Thanks for the advice.
Helen
UK
Helen, Are you using a polishing machine or doing this at the bench?
I ask because bench polishing is quite dangerous. Those little buffs
(mops) they sell for the flex-shaft should be banned. It is not the
polishing compound that is dangerous, breathing bits of the buff
itself is the killer. I think it is called black lung disease. It
would take a lot of little buffs, but leave them alone anyway unless
you have the air being drawn away from you in some manner.
Take care.
Tom Arnold
Alastaire's quote above is fine, until you look at that class of craftspeople who use texture because they are unable to polish (like nobody knows......) You still need to know how to polish, to be a successful jeweler.
I agree with you John, 100% (I would say 110% for emphasis, like so
many do, except that I think it’s a ridiculous expression). Many
people do use texture because it’s easier than achieving a high
shine. Obviously, there are equally many who use texture because
they prefer the visual aesthetic of textured and matt surfaces. I too
like texture, in conjunction with plain, shiny parts too. But I like
the textured parts to have the same degree of shine on the high spots
as on the plain, shiny parts.
Second day of apprenticeship: Get a piece of lath around a foot long and a full sheet of emery paper. Lay the lath on one long edge of the paper.. Use a dull knife (a bench blade) and score the edge on the other side.Turn the lath and the first surface of emery up, score again, turn, score, turn, score, etc. In the end I just pull off the emery and creaset strongly, and it will stay put by and large. Some people staple it oruse a rubber band. Full sheet emery stick.....
Yes, I agree with this too, and plan to make some. A kind Orchid
member kindly gave me one and I use it all the time - it’s great!
Except that it’s getting a little worn now, so I need to make some
more. The sandpaper was glued onto the stick. For those of you who
glue it on, what type of glue do you use? Would a PVA glue suit? I’m
guessing it would, as it glues paper and wood adequately, especially
the builders’ strength sort I have from the builders’ merchants.
Helen
UK
What makes a real difference is crystalline structure of the metal. The best polisher in the world could not polish soft coarse-grained metal. The quality of polish starts with casting ingot, rolling it correctly, and working it properly. If jewellery comes into polishing room with tight crystalline structure and good work-hardened, polishing is easy and results are excellent.
Leonid, I agree with you. My experience is obviously limited (two
and a bit years), but that short time and a scientific approach
(partly involving wearing pieces I’ve made using different methods)
has taught me that properly hardened and prepared metal will give a
much better and longer-lasting polish than if it is not sufficiently
hardened and prepared. I aim to spend very little time at the
polishing stage and that is possible if all the other steps are done
properly. I noticed very early on and very quickly, that my poorly
made early attempts (soft metal, etc) did not hold a polish for long
at all. In fact it was extremely difficult to even get a polish on it
in the first place. And added to that, the micro-scratches which
resulted from wearing the pieces, soon encouraged tarnish to occur.
So I’m a stickler for properly hardened and prepared metal before
going onto polishing.
never quench the metal, but let it cool slowly.
I’m working hard to avoid temptation to quench after annealing,
during the ingot casting and rolling process. I’ve noticed that
that’s when I get cracks appearing, even if I only pass it through
the roller twice between annealing steps. Even waiting a while
before quenching, and then quenching last minute has produced cracks,
so now I don’t quench when annealing. I anneal and then move it to a
cooler part of my soldering block, then go and make myself a cup of
coffee, by which time it’s sufficiently cooled to put it in the
pickle. When I roll a piece of metal, I allow it to fall onto the
mill’s frame as it comes out of the rollers. I do this to listen to
the sound it makes. When it “tings” with a bright, crisp sound, I
know it’s time to anneal. If I anneal and then quench, the metal will
make that bright “ting” sound even with the first roller pass,
indicating that the quenching made the metal too hard and brittle. If
I don’t quench after annealing, it falls onto the frame with a dull
sound and I get three or four passes before needing to anneal - and
no cracks.
Helen
UK
Helen
Sorry just getting in on the end. Please ignore what youve heard
before I have many years in the polishing industry and the operative
saying is Start as fine as possible because if you put a scratch in
you have to take it out. Never skip more than one grade rather spend
more time on the sanding operation As the scratches will just be
highlighted when you get to the final polish. The Orange peel effect
is normally the base material too soft then you have to use abrasive
cloth or paper until the nearly very last operation as its a flat
operation. Cloth and compound can cause the orange peel effect. You
can nowdays get abrasive papers so fine you sometimes just need to
touch it with a swansdown mop running very slow with a very fine
compound to get that brilliant finish…
Sometimes especially on aluminium (i know very little alu is used
for jewellry but the principle is the same) you use no compound but a
3 micron wet or dry disc with oil the pentrating type very thin SAE10
as the final finish or second last. What happens is you are actually
using the 3 micron aluminium dust as a paste with the 3 micron wod
paper and oil no compound at all The Aluminium is polishing itself
with itself so should gold and silver etc do the same. when its so
fine dust.
Give it a try. Its 3M wet or dry polishing paper used for polishing
F1 fighter aircraft windowsetc and leading edge aircraft wings. File
edges are the biggest cause of rouge cuts just touch the edge of your
new files with a grinding stone to round it off obviously you might
need the edges sharp sometimes.
frank thomson
Hi Helen:
It’s not files that are the problem, it’s cheap files. Good, high
quality files leave a very uniform surface behind. But they’re
expensive, so a lot of people buy cheap files, which have uneven
teeth that leave all sorts of nasty grooves behind. They also don’t
rake out their files nearly as often as they should, so they end up
with little snits of metal clogging up the teeth, and those can also
leave big ugly grooves behind.
Sandpaper doesn’t have those problems, but it does wear out rather
faster, and doesn’t cut nearly as quickly as a nice coarse file.
Personally, I use files on things that are supposed to remain
geometric, and sandpaper on organic surfaces, and then sandpaper
after a #4 (or sometimes a #6) file.
FWIW.
Brian.
Good polisher worth $15 dollars an hour and not a penny more. Unless polisher is a complete fool, his contribution to the final appearance is relatively minor.
Leonid, I think I’ll argue with you over that one. Learning to
polish really well, not to mention being willing to do only
polishing, all day long, as a career, isn’t so trivial. 15 dollars
isn’t what it once was.
And while the final appearance of the work is primarily the
responsibility of the jeweler who sends the piece to polishing, a
good polisher will be able to detect and fix minor errors made by the
jeweler, or give it back if it’s in need of real reworking before
polishing. He’s the guy at the end of the production cycle, other
than office quality control, etc. He or she can save an almost good
piece, and can take a well made piece and keep it that way. A less
than good polisher, on the other hand, can take a well made piece and
turn it into scap metal so fast it isn’t funny. It doesn’t take being
a complete fool. All it takes is a moments inattention, or misreading
the intent of the jeweler. Or even perhaps an overly attentive
attitude towards getting a perfect polish no matter what. I know one
fellow, who’s been a polisher for over 30 years. His surfaces when
done, are perfect every time, unless he sends it to the office as
something with too much porosity to polish, or something. But the
trick is that he’ll work on a piece until he gets that quality of
polish, without paying enough attention sometimes to the rest of what
makes a good piece. He’s quite capable of taking way too much metal
off, if for example, there’s a bit of porosity that should have been
burnished, filled, lasered, or otherwise dealt with, instead of
being buffed out. Or an errant tool mark on a stone. Or slight marks
at the tip of a prong that didn’t get rubber wheeled, so he needs to
buff a bit more. On diamonds, this can result in a loss of the
intended shape of the prongs, usually only minor. On C.Z. sample
pieces, or other softer stones, if the piece is made of platinum,
then his use of an aluminum oxide based platinum rouge means that
facet edges can be buffed over.
Now, some will say this guy’s not a good polisher. I disagree. he’s
simply too much, ONLY a polisher, and sometimes looses track of
what’s important other than the polish, and in the process, can take
way too much metal off the work in quest of that perfect polish. And
his wage, near to your idea, is low enough to guarantee that the firm
he works for has been unable to find anyone willing to try to take
his job, who’s also able to do even as good a job as he does. And
given that some of the bench jewelers who’s work he’s asked to
polish finish a casting with no finer than 3/0 emery, even in
platinum, and that some of the surfaces he’s asked to polish have
more than simple geometry, frankly, he’s not got an easy job. I sure
wouldn’t want to try and do it full time, and certainly not for his
wage.
I do, of course, know people who are better polishers. Most of them
are also skilled jewelers, and are polishing their own work, rather
than “everyone’s” work in a shop. And the few I can think of who are
really skilled as full time polishers, well, they seem to know
they’ve got a skill that isn’t so easy to replace with high quality
work, and they get paid more than your 15 dollars an hour. A few of
them get quite a bit more than that…
Don’t be so quick to belittle polishing. There’s a reason why it’s
often a specialized specific occupation rather than something mixed
into general bench work everyone shares in a commercial shop. Really
good polishing requires a good deal more skill and qualifications
than simply not being a fool. There are lots of folks out there who
“Think” they know how to polish well. Few of them, from what I’ve
seen, really do. And it might be worth mentioning that of all the
tasks commonly found in a commercial shop, the polishing station may
be the most dangerous too. In my several decades of working in
jewelry and metals in various situations, schools, shops, etc, I’ve
witnessed and experienced my share of goofs and accidents and
injuries of one sort or another. Maybe I’ve been “lucky”, but all of
the most serious such accidents and injuries I can recall, involved
polishing machines. Either that or industrial level
stamping/punching presses. Again, polishing safely, both for the
polisher, and for the work, needs someone who’s well above the “fool”
level…
Peter Rowe