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Oval tube setting


#1

Hi Folks,

I’ve finally got to tackle a job that I’ve put off as long as
possible… because I screwed it up the last time I tried it.
I’ve got an 8x6 peridot and a cast sterling tube setting… the
setting is currently mounted on a shellac stick. The stone is
ever-so-slightly larger than the seat in the tube setting. Since
it’s oval, I can’t just take a big burr and cut the seat in one
shot. What type of burr should I use? Unless I use a cylinder
shaped burr, the upper lip of the tube would still be to small to
admit the stone, right? That would seem to rule out a small hart
or round burr, huh? I don’t want to “snap” the stone in, as I
understand peridot is very fragile… even though I’ve set them
before and never broken one (knock on wood). I don’t think I’ve
ever seen reference to using a cylinder burr in stone setting.
How would you folks handle such a situation?

Dave


#2

Hi Dave,

I’d probaly start with a 90 degree bearing bur about 3.3mm,
perhaps in conjunction with a cylinder finishing bur to enlarge
the vertical opening. Two steps to do what a setting bur was
designed for, but I’ve never liked them. Hart burs are precise,
but if held perpendicular to the setting may not give you a steep
enough seat for the pavilion of your stone. Color often is cut
with a bit of a “belly” (a curved line from girdle to culet).
Depending on the shape of your stone you may have to cut the seat
with a ball bur. I know a couple of setters who use mostly ball
burs. Good luck. :slight_smile:

Dick


#3

I’ve finally got to tackle a job that I’ve put off as long as
possible… because I screwed it up the last time I tried it.
I’ve got an 8x6 peridot and a cast sterling tube setting… the
setting is currently mounted on a shellac stick. The stone is
ever-so-slightly larger than the seat in the tube setting. Since
it’s oval, I can’t just take a big burr and cut the seat in one
shot. What type of burr should I use? Unless I use a cylinder
shaped burr, the upper lip of the tube would still be to small to
admit the stone, right? That would seem to rule out a small hart
or round burr, huh? I don’t want to “snap” the stone in, as I
understand peridot is very fragile… even though I’ve set them
before and never broken one (knock on wood). I don’t think I’ve
ever seen reference to using a cylinder burr in stone setting.
How would you folks handle such a situation? Dave

Hi Dave, Happy New Year to you (sorry about not getting back to
you yet on the workshops list-promise soon)

Regarding your oval bezel-try the engraved setting paper on the
Tips from the Jewelers bench page. The procedure is essentially
the same as what you need to do, you could use a round burr
followed by a setting burr instead of engraving tools. A graver
is pretty much the same as a single tooth from a rotating burr.

Happy New Year to you and all on the list!!!

Charles

Brain Press
Box 1624, Ste M, Calgary,
Alberta, T2P 2L7, Canada
Tel: 403-263-3955 Fax: 403-283-9053
Email: @Charles_Lewton-Brain

Metals info download web site:
https://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/tip_sear.htm Product descriptions:
https://www.ganoksin.com/kosana/brain/brain.htm


#4

Dave

I would use a 90 degree setting bur about 4mm or so and fairly
high speed and very light strokes (I assume a flex shaft) to
enlarge the seat. Work one end then the other then the sides
fitting the stone often. Use a lubricant (oil of wintergeen is
traditional) or bur life. I do sometimes use small cylinder burs
(1.5mm crosscut busch burs) or you could hammer stretch the
setting tube on an oval bezel mandrel. I just found a tool that I
have been looking for over the last 2 years- Frei Borel is selling
a trillion bezel block. If you are unfamiliar with bezel blocks-
they are a steel block with a series of tapered holes (usually 17
degree taper) and a matching punch. I sort of collect them I
guess… Very useful for making bezels.

Good luck
Rick Hamilton

orchid@ganoksin.com

procedures


#5

Hi Dick!

Thanks for the feedback! I think you’re right… a small
setting burr was what I used on the first (failed) attempt. The
setting was also already soldered into the piece, which made
maintaining the proper angle very difficult. I think the idea of
doing it in two distinct steps makes sense; I’ve been trying to
force it into one. I think I will try a small ball burr to cut
the seat. That will leave a little more “breathing room” for the
girdle… and I believe the stone does exhibit the “belly” to
which you refer.

Thanks again,

Dave


#6

Thanks Charles. I had already checked out your writings about
tube setting (Thanks, by the way!), but it didn’t really seem to
address oval tubes, which is my particular problem here. There
was something else I was going to ask you about one of your tips
from Cheap Thrills, but I can’t remember what it was. You were
explaining a technique you had seen elsewhere… I’ll have to
look it back up again.


#7

Hi Dave,

The procedure with the engraving tools is what I use for most
oval and odd shapes of stones, it allows very acccurate and
actually rapid adjustment of the seat to the different angles of
the oval stone (you’ve noticed the angles of the pavillion vary).
I actually think the engraved approach is a as good if not better
for such stones. Usually it is 15 minutes from start to finish
including the aactual setting and clean-up which is not bad.

Best wishes for your year!

Charles

As well, here’s a rough summer outline:

1997 Workshops

Fold-forming demonstrations
JCK (February 15-17, 1997 – Orlando, FL)

Contact: Jennifer Rice
1 Chilton Way,
Radnor, PA 19089 USA
Fax 612-653-3920

OR

Charlotte Preston
2697 E. County Rd. F
#524 White Bear Lane
Minnesota 55110 USA
612-653-3919 (fax as above)
email: getsitdone@aol.com

Interlaken (Fold-forming: June 21-24, 1997 – Pittsfield, MA)

Contact: Linda Kaye-Moses
PO Box 1758
Pittsfield, MA 01202-1758 USA
413-442-6535 Fax: 413-499-5275
email: eransol@berkshire.net

Fold-foming
Peter’s Valley Craft Center (July 5-12, 1997 – Layton, NJ)

Contact: Katherine Talcott
19 Kuhn Road
Layton, NJ 07851 USA
201-948-5200 Fax: 201-948-0011

Brain Press at the Centre for Jewellery Studies (Calgary, AB)

Catches, Findings, Hinges (July 17-19, 1997)
Fold-forming (July 21-25, 1997)
Advanced Fold-forming (July 28-August 1, 1997)

Contact: Brain Press
Box 1624, Ste. M
Calgary, AB
T2P 2L7 Canada
403-263-3955 Fax: 403-283-9053
email: @Charles_Lewton-Brain

Arrowmont (September 1997. No dates yet) Fold-forming in Polyform Clay
Arrowmont School, TN

Fold-forming for Blacksmiths
Contact: Steven Ford
1714 N. Mascher St.
Philadelphia, PA 19122 USA
215-739-0609

Brain Press
Box 1624, Ste M, Calgary,
Alberta, T2P 2L7, Canada
Tel: 403-263-3955 Fax: 403-283-9053
Email: @Charles_Lewton-Brain

Metals info download web site: http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/tip_sear.htm
Product descriptions: http://www.ganoksin.com/kosana/brain/brain.htm


#8

Hi Charles,

I checked out your paper on the engraved settings… and I see
exactly what you mean. The oval graver, especially, is a neat
idea. Before I go looking to make one or find one, let me ask
another question. The setting is cast sterling. If annealed do
you think it will be workable with gravers? It seems to me that
cast metal is much less willing to cooperate with gravers than
something fabricated. Is that just my imagination?

Dave Sebaste


#9

Before starting I have a general question to those on the list.
Would people prefer Dave and I to have this conversation off
list? (This way anyone can jump in though). Comments?

Hi Dave,

Should work fine in sterling, depnds how thin/thick your bezel
material is. At .6 or so to 1mm you should be fine, thinner than
that you may have to use less pressure while engraving to avoid
bending the setting wall. When casting such settings I generally
rough it out in wax using the same graver shapes (see wax tools
on the tips site) but made from common nails so one doesn’t have
a handlw while pushing. When the stone fitsin the wax with a
little (just a little) slop to it then one casts it and finishes
the cutting in the metal.

Cast metal is ‘spongy’ and while it cuts relatively well you
will notice during hammer setting that it compresses some before
it starts to move (actually quite a bit in silver-like up to a
third of the thickness depending on your casting skills). You
have to plan for this. Also don’t expect cast metal to do back
and forth bends well.

And, burrs work well too, it is just that the gravers 'teach’
one because it is a relatively slow, understandable process. If
you have burrs though you can use them just do a lot of checking.
I use a ten power loupe often when setting to check what I am
doing, or sometimes use an optivisor. (I’ll still be reaching for
my gravers).

As to the earlier post about reasons for doing settings I would
say they might include:

One in a place of inexpensive labor costs. One makes high end
work where the client appreciates and understands cost and
hand-made. One has a philosophical position about making all of a
piece. One is making settings for larger stones, or wierd
shapes. In general the decision to my mind is one of cost
effectiveness balanced by ones design and philosophical 'postion’
on the specific object being made.

Chok Dee (learned this one from Dr. Aspler)

Charles

I checked out your paper on the engraved settings… and I see
exactly what you mean. The oval graver, especially, is a neat
idea. Before I go looking to make one or find one, let me ask
another question. The setting is cast sterling. If annealed do
you think it will be workable with gravers? It seems to me that
cast metal is much less willing to cooperate with gravers than
something fabricated. Is that just my imagination?

Brain Press
Box 1624, Ste M, Calgary,
Alberta, T2P 2L7, Canada
Tel: 403-263-3955 Fax: 403-283-9053
Email: @Charles_Lewton-Brain

Metals info download web site:


Product descriptions:
https://www.ganoksin.com/kosana/brain/brain.htm


#10

Hi Folks,

I’ve finally got to tackle a job that I’ve put off as long as
possible… because I screwed it up the last time I tried it. I’ve
got an 8x6 peridot and a cast sterling tube setting… the setting is
currently mounted on a shellac stick. The stone is ever-so-slightly
larger than the seat in the tube setting. Since it’s oval, I can’t
just take a big burr and cut the seat in one shot. What type of burr
should I use? Unless I use a cylinder shaped burr, the upper lip of
the tube would still be to small to admit the stone, right? That
would seem to rule out a small hart or round burr, huh? I don’t want
to “snap” the stone in, as I understand peridot is very fragile…
even though I’ve set them before and never broken one (knock on
wood). I don’t think I’ve ever seen reference to using a cylinder
burr in stone setting. How would you folks handle such a situation?


#11

Mark

I have set many shapes and sizes of stones both cab and faceted . If
you have a faceted peridot look at the girdle is it sharp or med or
thick? If it is Sharp to med use a 2mm hart bur to cut a seat for
the stone about 3/4 of a mm from the top edge do not cut to deep
measure your wall thickness and go in 1/3 rd .If your stone wont fit
in , with care and a light touch use a round 2.5 to 3 mm bur to
remove a bit of the top inside edge till your stone sits on the
seat.This may require you to cut the seat deeper if you have to
remove enough metal that the seat gets to shallow .Go slowly grind
with great care take off very small amounts of metal ,till your
peridot is well seated .To set the stone use a bezel pusher or bezel
rocker etc.Do this part with great care to much pressure will chip
your stone .You may need to file the outside of the bezel slightly or
not it depends if the wall is very heavy or light, silver will be
easy to move dont push to hard rock gently the bezel pusher and work
your way around the stone till you are pleased the bezel is evenly
down on the stone.

If your stone is a cab email me I will be happy to explain as well. I
find it best to modify some cutters for this purpose I can explain
if you are interested .

Regards,
Sam


#12
       What type of burr should I use?  

I’d just run a regular setting bur around the inside of the bezel,
say a 3.5-4mm bur.

Bruce D. Holmgrain
http://www.goldwerx.com
@Red_Rodder
JA Certified Master Bench Jeweler / CAD/CAM Solutions


#13

If I had to pick a bur for this job, it would be a krause bur
(slightly tapered cylinder). Personally, I would probably use a flat
graver, instead. Maybe even a split mandrel with sandpaper.

James in SoFl


#14

I just did this, in a bead-set diamond ring, where the supposedly
round diamond was not really round. It is a touchy procedure, so just
go very slowly and test many times as you enlarge the hole. Hold the
stone with a sticky tool made of wax or putty stuck to the table as
you test the fit. The bur used is a regular diamond setting bur, the
kind with a pointed tip and straight sides. You have to rotate it
around the inside of the hole, but not let it make the hole deeper. I
know…easier said than done! Did anyone ever say that diamond
setting is easy? Just go along slowly and test, test, test.

I think that a cylinder bur would be okay, too. It might be nice to
have a bur that did not have a cutting surface on the bottom. (A bur
could be customized for this.) Then you could go back in with a
setting bur at the very end to angle the seat to fit the shape of the
stone.

Another start, if your tube walls are not too thick, might be to
stretch the hole by hammering a tapered tool into it, and then
perfecting it with burs. You could make a tapered oval punch for
this, sure to come in handy again some time.

Most of us who have been working for a few decades have made a lot
of little tools for ourselves, I’ll bet. I sometimes run across one
in my stuff, and wonder what the heck I made it for! Invent, invent.
It’s part of the fun.

M’lou Brubaker, Jeweler
Goodland, MN
www.craftswomen.com


#15

I’d make the bezel the right size in the first place. Did I miss
weather it was a cab or faceted? use a standard stone setting bur to
allow for some seat.

www.robertwhiteside.com


#16

Hi Folks,

I’ve finally got to tackle a job that I’ve put off as long as
possible. because I screwed it up the last time I tried it. I’ve got
an 8x6 peridot and a cast sterling tube setting. the setting is
currently mounted on a shellac stick. The stone is ever-so-slightly
larger than the seat in the tube setting. Since it’s oval, I can’t
just take a big burr and cut the seat in one shot. What type of burr
should I use? Unless I use a cylinder shaped burr, the upper lip of
the tube would still be to small to admit the stone, right? That
would seem to rule out a small hart or round burr, huh? I don’t want
to “snap” the stone in, as I understand peridot is very fragile. even
though I’ve set them before and never broken one (knock on wood). I
don’t think I’ve ever seen reference to using a cylinder burr in
stone setting. How would you folks handle such a situation?

Dave


#17

Hi Folks,

I’ve finally got to tackle a job that I’ve put off as long as
possible. because I screwed it up the last time I tried it. I’ve got
an 8x6 peridot Faceted? Girdle size and pavilion, crown proportions?
and a cast sterling tube setting. the setting is currently mounted
on a shellac stick. How much clear height is the top of the setting
edge from the shellac? The stone is ever-so-slightly larger than the
seat Already pre-cut? in the tube setting. How thick is the metal? Is
it already pre-polished, particularly the top circumference?

Since it’s oval, I can’t just take a big burr and cut the seat in one
shot. What type of burr should I use? Unless I use a cylinder shaped
burr, the upper lip of the tube would still be to small to admit the
stone, right? That would seem to rule out a small hart or round burr,
huh? I don’t want to “snap” the stone in, as I understand peridot is
very fragile. Correct.

even though I’ve set them before and never broken one (knock on
wood). I don’t think I’ve ever seen reference to using a cylinder
burr in stone setting. Why would you ever consider such a burr? Best
not to remove metal from the top of the edge in most cases. How would
you folks handle such a situation?

Well Dave, this could be an easy job or a tricky one depending upon
some of your answers to the above.

Initially, given that the stone is marginally greater than the
setting aperture, and that a seat is already formed, you may be
starting at a disadvantage.

  1. Inserting a tapered oval punch and gently rolling it out against
    the inner wall of the setting may be helpful if the metal is thick
    enough to stretch without deforming.

  2. Depending upon the status of the pre-cut bearing/seat and the
    shape/size of the girdle, a ball burr of appropriate size may be
    required to undercut only. Leave a small lip of metal.

  3. Having inserted the stone, a “rocking” pusher would be the best
    to restore the position of the metal back up against the girdle.

  4. All things going well, a couple of turns around with the pusher
    would see the stone set and without the need to use a graver to
    polish/bright cut the inside setting edge. Any questions?

Regards,
Phil


#18

Not knowing how thick your bezel walls are I have a few options for
you.

the bezel is still a little thicker looking. Then use a small
burnisher to open the thicker top out just enough so that you don’t
have to snap the stone in.

with a flat graver.

When hammering down a oval bezel take all of the metal down very
slowly and evenly. Start at the tightest curves on the ends. Slightly
bevel in the outside top edge of the bezel before hammering as well.

Once you have your metal 80- 90% of the way down on the stone take a
1/2 onglette or flat graver and make a nice crisp inside edge. The
gravers must be sharp and very well polished and lubricated where
they touch the stone…

Spit is the best lube for this operation.

Have fun and make lots of jewelry

Jo Haemer
timothywgreen.com


#19

This is probably a more detailed answer than you need, but it may be
helpful for those who have never set a fancy shaped stone, so bear
with me.

The first step is to inspect the stone and the setting carefully.
What you will be doing is carving out a very specific indentation for
the stone to sit in. Look at the girdle. Is it wavy, does the
thickness vary, are there any defects, etc? Inspect the pavilion. Do
the pavilion angles vary from one end to the other, from side to
side, is it thicker on one end or one side, etc? Inspect the table.
Is it parallel to the girdle? Stones aren’t usually symmetrical and
it’s necessary to mark one end of the stone and a matching end of the
setting so you are always placing the stone in the same position. I
use a sharpie marker, but you’ll need to reapply the mark
sporadically as it wears away.

Using a small round bur, for this size of a stone, maybe 1.5 mm,
start to remove metal around the inside edge of the setting. The idea
is to fit the stone so it just sits inside but the girdle doesn’t
fall below the top edge of the setting. Ideally there will be no gaps
between the edge of the stone and the the inside edge of the setting.
This will take some time. Don’t expect to get it all done in one or
two steps; remove a little metal, test fit the stone, remove metal,
test fit, etc. Use beeswax or sprue wax to hold the stone as you fit
it, not tweezers.

Once the stone sits just inside the setting, use a small setting bur
to grind a perpendicular wall to the proper depth. I would never use
a cylinder bur. It is too long and generally the teeth are too
coarse, especially for silver. Using a setting bur you can judge how
far down you are grinding based on the relative position of the top
of the bur and the top of the setting. If the table isn’t parallel to
the girdle, or if the girdle has a variable thickness, you’ll need to
adjust the depth of the cut. You want the table to be level with the
top of the setting.

Depending on the thickness of the crown, when viewing the setting
from the side, you’ll want the setting to obscure about 30 percent of
the crown.

Since most colored stones have much more angled bellies than setting
burs have you’ll need to grind out any metal that hinders the girdle
from sitting right on the seat. This is a blind procedure and will
require a lot of test fitting. Usually you can tell if the stone
isn’t sitting on the seat because it will rock. Make the surface as
smooth as possible.

Depending on your comfort level, you may want to remove the setting
from the shellac so you can view the stone in the setting from the
reverse. This is a good time to carefully polish the inside of the
setting as shellac doesn’t get along with polishing compounds or
rubber polishing rods and you can clean the setting thoroughly before
replacing the setting in the shellac.

All that’s left now is pushing the bezel over the stone, which
doesn’t differ in procedure from any other type of bezel setting.

Good luck and remember, good stone setting takes time, especially if
you don’t have a lot of experience with the type of setting you are
trying to accomplish. Have patience.

Larry


#20

Use a ball bur to bur out a bearing for the oval stone. If I have a
roundish oval, I will treat the tube bezel as a round setting, use
stonesetting burs to cut the bearing, and then slightly squish the
setting to make it more oval for the stone. As for a 8 x 6 oval, use
a 5mm ball bur and just carefully bur out the bearing, going around
in a ovalish-circular pattern. Test the stone to see how it sits in
the tube. If top of stone is level with top of tube, then it is at
the correct depth. I know Leonid will blast me, but this method has
works for me, and served me well for 20 odd years.

Good luck
Joy