After reading through, in the last few months, myriad posts on: 1)
bench vs “art” jewelry, 2) argentium silver vs sterling silver, 3)
puk vs laser welders vs traditional soldering, I’ve decided the
Orchid list is no longer a source of authoritative
Many posts are self-interested marketing and fail to be objective or
informative. Often little effort is given to even thinly veiling the
economic or ego interests of the posters. Creating unseemly
controversy is not something most avoid. Personal attacks and
innuendo abound, to the extent that some whose economic interests are
threatened by cowboy controversy have to weigh in to pouroil on
troubled waters and try to damp down controversy.
This, too, appears to be an effort to protect profits.
Do posters think none of us readers can think or see unstated
motives, which are obvious, for what they are? Do they think we are
overjoyed by personal attacks and innuendo? That we all are eager to
attend bullfights and see bloody videos?
I’ve decided that: 1) I don’t need anyone to tell me that there are
good things in traditional, “conformist” bench jewelry, just as there
are great “art” pieces made by people who are not career bench
jewelers; 2) I’ll have to get some argentium and some 925 sterling
and perform my own tests before deciding which to use for various
projects, since there isn’t much effort by proponents of either to be
fair and balanced in their discussion; and 3) if I considered buying
a puk, “pulse-arc” or laser welder, I’d for sure find a place to work
with each for several days before even considering buying any of
them. I’d expect better objectivity from folks who are selling items
costing in four figures, but I guess it isn’t forthcoming.
With the lack of respect craftspersons and merchants are showing to
each other here, my new motto will be "scroll down, scroll down,
delete, move on…
Well, there’s always a solution to that problem. Just unsubscribe.
In a democracy everybody has a right to his opinion and to free
speech and Orchid does have lots of fans.
I'll have to get some argentium and some 925 sterling and perform
my own tests before deciding which to use for various projects,
since there isn't much effort by proponents of either to be fair and
balanced in their discussion
And while you are at it read the info from Argentium International,
the global patent holders also Cynthia EId and Jeffrey Herman have
some interesting and useful info about Argentium.
Not many proponents of sterling left these days. Why? Argentium has
no firescale/firestain and that is just the start.
There is also workability and very low tarnish.
However there is one thing Argentium is absolutely useless for
compared to sterling. Reticulation. I can get a similar effect by
fusing swarf to a base plate of Argentium and it looks great but is
too rough for a ring shank.
But reticulated rings are about 10% of my ring sales so 90% of my
rings are now Argentium and priced 50% more than they were in
sterling.
A couple of people on Orchid suggested I put my prices up to lower
my work load. To keep up stock levels.
Well thanks a lot ! NOT. LOL
I now sell more than ever and so have even more trouble keeping up
stock. That worked well for my work load, but hey my accountant loves
you.
And hey Roy if you have been on Orchid a while you will have seen
many a good sh*t fight. Many of us like it, although they have been a
bit tame since a certain some one left.
This is what you get with passionate people, but in the end there is
usually a consensus of usable
I have not noticed this problem but perhaps because I am more of a
hobbyist. I for one have had nothing but good experiences here on
Orchid forums and have received awesome advice from great people.
Maybe this is because I don’t ask about machines, however. Overall,
this forum is still a great asset to jewelers. There are great people
here.
Now, if your assumption is correct, it would explain why I don’t
hear much about how steam casting can force more metal with more
force into a mold than any vacuum casting machine on the planet and
yet, I have never heard of anyone here using it. LOL. Nobody sells
steam casting devices.
However, it’s pretty simple to make your own. All you need is a
tight fitting lid ready and the right size holes that work with the
surface tension of liquid gold or silver. But I digress… I love
and appreciate this forum. Without it, I would be making more
mistakes.
Interesting vent. You state 3 decisions you’ve been able to make
based on what was written here, yet object to how all the info got to
you. So, how about contributing some solid in the manner
you would like to see it given. Otherwise, just take your name off
the mailing list, and search in Archives, rather than listen to a
huge range of working, jewelers just being their curious selves, in
this curious time.
Roy- I understand your frustration. Sometimes folks here get their
panties in a twist and go on and on in deeper and deeper minutiae
about what is important to them. We’re jewelers after all. It’s in
our nature to live for the tiny details. If a conversation gets
worked to death I tend to skip over some bits because I don’t have
time to read it all.
That said I prefer to do my best to defuse things with humor and
knowledge and try to give a fresh look at a subject rather than
complain about the path the conversation is taking.
If you think commercialization is bad here you should see LinkedIn.
Oy! Have fun and make lots of jewelry.
I was taught by an Orchidian how to use a raw potato to steam force
sterling into a casting mold and when I had my first successful ring
I ran around my shop singing I made a potato ring I made a potato
ring lol
Teri in north of Pittsburgh where miracles do occur daily
Many of us like it, although they have been a bit tame since a
certain some one left.
Astonishingly, I find that I sometimes miss the fulminations of that
“certain someone”! L’sdiatribes and opinions were interesting, to say
the least (or most?), and sometimes amusing – if one were able to
take them with enough grains of salt. Jim
Yeah, believe it or not, I do miss him. Whatever else you had to say
about him, he did force one to stay on top of a great many fields,
just to be able to refute him.
That said, I don’t miss the strife. But I do, on rare occasion, miss
the man you sometimes saw in his posts when he forgot to be
doctrinaire. At a certain point in time and space, he knew a very
great deal indeed. That requires respect.
Here’s to peace, civility, and continuing our educations throughout
life.
Try Using the Orchid Archives- extremely “Authoritative” and
definitive answers can be found there from people that have gotten
tired of more recent marketing and covert sales scattered among the
same old few folks creating chaos on Orchid.
If you take the time to do some research on Orchid going back a few
years- at least-, you will be able to identify the experienced
jewelers and metalsmiths that responded to questions like the
examples you cite. and get the kind of answers you seem to be looking
for without accepting that on a FORUM people are going to express
opinions and use it as a marketing tool! As for MORE moderation- nah,
not necessary. Some of us that have 20, 30 and many more years of
experience aren’t offering self-serving profit motivated answers to
novice’s questions- just giving up our time to offer solutions to
problems, experiential based answers (some take me hours to write)
and feel it is necessary to chime in when threads “go off on a purely
useless or incorrect l track”…The last thing we want is
more moderation. FYI Orchid recently underwent some reorganisation
that added more moderation and organisation-particularly in the
archiving dept… I’ve been away for months and months so haven’t
seen your posts as you are ‘new’ to Orchid in the scheme of the years
I have “invested” helping other jewelers and novices with my
experience. If you want your answers with some self/ pre-determined
constraints before you ask them on a public forum perhaps you should
go to the vendors that sell the alloys or products you have questions
about - thus avoiding people’s opinions alltogether !..rer
Orchid list is no longer a source of authoritative
I think of Orchid as being like coffee fueled meeting of jewelry
makers from all over the world with widely varying personalities,
interests, experiences and abilities. People I would never meet and
learn from otherwise. I rarely expect it to be authoritative, but I
do find it to be continually thought provoking. To me authoritative
implies an indisputable truth that we all can trust, sort of the
last word on the subject. I’m not sure that even exists with most
subjects. I prefer a forum where ideas get kicked around somewhat
randomly by all and go where they may.
I want to thank Roy (the OP) for taking the time to post his
thoughts and views. That’s the sort of thing that makes this a great
forum.
I think of Orchid as being like coffee fueled meeting of jewelry
makers from all over the world with widely varying personalities,
interests, experiences and abilities. People I would never meet
and learn from otherwise.
I agree completely with your quite concise summation. Well said
Mark!
I myself like a direct approach, ask question, get answer, go
practice, Mr. Rourke, has the right idea, when you have the
experience to share and it works that’s what trains peoples brains,
it up to us to train our fingers, it’s easy to sort who’s training
and who’s selling