Can Muratic Acid be used to etch copper? I was told that
Muratic acid can be used to etch copper, but It will not etch
silver. I have tried to find about muriatic acid,
but all of the I found was for masons, and how to
use it to clean concrete etc… Are there any books that cover
acid etching in depth, explanig diferent chemicals to use, how
to use them safly and how to properly dispose of the chemicals
when they are nolonger usable?
Isaac Coblentz
Muriatic Acid is also known as Hydrocloric acid or HCl. Nitric
is commonly used to etch silver.
Rick Hamilton
Richard D. Hamilton, Jr
http://www.rick-hamilton.com
@rick_hamilton
On 04-May-97, The Coblentzes wrote aboutMuriatic Acid:
TC> Can Muratic Acid be used to etch copper?
Note: muriatic acid has been called hydrochloric acid for about
100 years now! No, it won’t etch copper, but will remove oxide
and sulphide staining from a copper or brass surface. It burns
holes in clothes and gives off a choking vapour. It won’t touch
silver either.
Nitric acid will etch and dissolve copper, and silver, (does not
react alone with gold) giving off a brown gas called nitrogen
dioxide. This is poisonous, choking and nasty. Nitric acid is
also nasty, also gives off a choking vapour, stains fingers and
other flesh bright yellow which won’t wash off, and burns like
hell! Unless you are used to handling chemicals, keep off these
two acids.
But Ferric Chloride solid dissolves easily in water, is
reasonably inoccuous, no fumes or burns (but don’t ingest it!)
and eats into copper without problems - electronics folk use it
all the time for making printed circuits. You can buy it at a
good electronics hobby outlet, and your local pharmacists might
sell it.
Books from your local library on photo etching, or alternative
photo materials will give you lots of detail. Modern Librarians
just love to help. To dispose of the waste chemical just flush it
down the toilet with copious amounts of water to dilute it and
you won’t cause inviro problems with the amount you will use.
Have a go! Cheers,
/\
/ / John Burgess,
/ /
/ //\ @John_Burgess2
/ / \ \
/ (___) \
(_________)In a message dated 97-05-03 22:27:16 EDT, you write:
Can Muratic Acid be used to etch copper? I was told that Muratic
acid can be used to etch copper, but It will not etch silver.
Isaac, Muratic acid is basically a weak Hydrochloric acid.
Nitric acid will eat the hell out of copper and silver - and if
nitric and hydrochloric are mixed together- you end up with aqua
regia which is used in refining gold. I havent done any etching,
but I have done alot of refining and assaying. Be careful working
with acids! If you ever mix acids with water, remember the three
A’s." Always Add Acid "to the water- not vice versa or you could
end up splattering it all over yourself. Also make sure you have
a good ventilation system setup.
Ken
Etching of copper can be done easily and very safely with pc
board etch liquid available at most radio shack stores. Its
sodium something or other and is not an acid and very safe.
Resists to use are sharpie markers or ironed on laser toner from
acetate prints. Works real well only on copper…Dave
Art Jewelry for Conscious People
http://www.opendoor.com/stephensdesign/crystalguy.html
Etching of copper can be done easily and very safely with pc
board etch liquid available at most radio shack stores. Its
sodium something or other and is not an acid and very safe.
Resists to use are sharpie markers or ironed on laser toner from
acetate prints. Works real well only on copper…Dave
Dave, I just bought some feric cloride. I tried to use a
sharpie marker as the resist, and the bath ate away my desighn.
It was only a test so it is no great loss, but what did I do
wrong. Also, I usualy use asphaltum in a nitric bath. I like
my pices to have a farly deep etch, will the feric cloride
produce an ethch that is a few mm deep?
Isaac
Isaac: I’ve only tried it a few times and it worked perfectly. I
used a toner iron-on stuff for laser printers. A sharpie should
work fine. One thing you have to do is put the copper plate in
FACE DOWN and suspended so it doesn’t sit on the bottom. I don’t
know how deep it will etch, its kind of a crude process not meant
for super fine detail. Dave
www.opendoor.com/stephensdesign/crystalguy.html
Art Jewelry from Crystalguy, a Mineral Experience
Dave, I just bought some feric cloride. I tried to use a
sharpie marker as the resist, and the bath ate away my design.
It was only a test so it is no great loss, but what did I do
wrong. Also, I usualy use asphaltum in a nitric bath. I like
my pices to have a farly deep etch, will the feric cloride
roduce an ethch that is a few mm deep?
ISAAC: The other thing I didn’t mention is you must clean the
copper perfectly before doing this technique. Use a scotchbrite
pad and scrub the heck out of it and then clean with acetone,
there must be no oils at all on the surface so don’t touch it
either after cleaning. Then use your sharpie or toner
resist…Dave
www.opendoor.com/stephensdesign/crystalguy.html
Art Jewelry from Crystalguy, a Mineral Experience
Etching of copper can be done easily and very safely with pc
board etch liquid available at most radio shack stores. Its
sodium something or other and is not an acid and very safe.
Resists to use are sharpie markers or ironed on laser toner from
acetate prints. Works real well only on copper…Dave
Dave, I just bought some feric cloride. I tried to use a sharpie marker as the resist, and the bath ate away my desighn. It was only a test so it is no great loss, but what did I do wrong. Also, I usualy use asphaltum in a nitric bath. I like my pices to have a farly deep etch, will the feric cloride produce an ethch that is a few mm deep?
Isaac
Hey: did I ever reply to this? You have to scrub the copper with
a Scotch pad or steel wool thats not oiled then clean with
acetone. Then use your sharpie and don’t touch the metal with
your fingers as the oil will resist. Its that easy. You can also
buy laster printable pc board transfer paper and do wild things
that way. The laser stuff will even work fairly well with silver
and nitric acid if you don’t need really fine detail…Dave
Kickass Websites for the Corporate World http://www.kickassdesign.com
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Dave, I just bought some feric cloride. I tried to use a sharpie marker as the resist, and the bath ate away my desighn. It was only a test so it is no great loss, but what did I do wrong. Also, I usualy use asphaltum in a nitric bath. I like my pices to have a farly deep etch, will the feric cloride produce an ethch that is a few mm deep?
I did quite a lot of Ferric Chloride etching on brass and copper
a few years ago. Sharpies will not give as good a resist as
other methods, but they do leave you with an irregular surface
that can be worked into the design. One thing about Sharpies,
You can NOT go over a line. If you try to redraw, you will
eliminate more of the old line than put down a new one. The
method I finally ended up using is:
Go to an art store and get a sheet of Frisket Paper. It’s used
by artists and signmakers. Draw your design on the Frisket and
apply the frisket to the metal. Then cut out your design with an
Xacto knife and use Spray paint (Blackworks best) as a resist.
When the paint is dry (30 min or so) peel the paper off and the
resist (Paint) is on the metal. I spray painted the back too
before doing the front.
As for cleaning, I first put the metal in piclke then wash and
wipe with denatured alcohol followed by a wash and final wipe
with acetone to remove any water left on. 15 min under a
lightbulb or in a sunny window will give you a nice clean
surface.
This is simplified, if anyone wants more detailes post on the
list or e-mail off list with the word etching in the subject
Be nice to your kids. They’ll choose your nursing home.
Bobert
Just a quick note on using Ferric Chloride.
I used to use a lot of this some years ago when I was making
custom printed circuit boards.
It’s possible to etch fairly deeply with it but it has a nasty
habit of starting to eat away under the resist as it exposes the
copper. It’s really better for shallow etching. I guess that it
would be possible to etch and then check the edges of the resist
before continuing to etch further.
Like I saud, I’ve only used it for shallow etching of circuit
boards and I’ve never tried deep etching.
Regards,
Kerry
| Website - http://www.bennie.demon.co.uk/ |
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Yeah, I want more info on etching copper with ferric
chloride…mainly because I wanted a cheap way to practice
etching. So, I took myself to Radio Shack and got a big bottle of
ferric chloride. Trouble is, they didn’t have any resist pens in
stock. I also realize that PC board ething is a very thin etch.
I had hoped that a longer dunking might work.
If you are etching copper in ferric, be sure that it is facing
down. You can speed up the etch by “bubbling” with a fish tank
air stone and pump. I get a pretty deep etch using ferric,
enough so that I can enamel for champleve. Radio Shack has
pretty substandard ferric. Try Zacryl
(http://www.10mb.com/zacryl/) for ferric. It’s great.
What are you trying to etch?
-k
Karen Christians
Fly Fish Design
282 Lexington Street
Woburn, MA 01801
781/937-3827
Karen… when I’ve tried deep etching with ferric
chloride in copper I got significant undercuts at the edges of
the pattern, that is the edges were not vertical but had pockets
under the edges. Is that your experience too ? If not , how did
you overcome this classic difficulty ? Sol K.
YES! However, you must use caution when using it, as it is an acid. Muriatic acid, also known as Transchem, is available at pool supply stores for cleaning swimming pools. The important thing to always remember when making your solution is to add your ACID TO THE HYDROGYN PEROXIDE! The reason for this is to prevent any injuries that may occur if the peroxide were to cause the acid to splash outwards and onto you. This would cause a nasty burn.
I’ve been etching with muratic acid for years. I was completely caught off guard this evening when I went online and saw numerous posts stating that you absolutely could not use it, claiming it wouldn’t work. Alas, ease your mind, it works to etch copper and brass just fine. As for silver? I don’t really know. Just the thought of putting my silver into acid freaks me… shudder me timbers…
So, the ratio for the etchant is easy. Simply add 50% hydrogen peroxide to 50% muriatic acid in a glass dish. Ta daa! That’s it! Hold on though!!! There are a lot of things you have to do before you get to this point. Unfortunatelly, it is almost 1:00 am and I’m dying for a cool glass of that Rombauer I opened earlier. The good thing is, there is a ton, literally, a TON, seriously, well, so okay, maybe not a WHOLE TON, I mean like who’s ever weighed information anyway right? So, I’ll rephrase it, there is literally a WHOLE LOT (how’s that? Better? cool! I’m happy if you’re happy! makes the world a better place, don’t ya think?) of information on everything you need to do BEFORE you even THINK ABOUT etching. It basically boils down to making sure your metal is spotless, not even a smudge… heaven forbid a smidge! You might get shot by they, you know who I’m talking about… the infamous “THEY”! Come’on man! Haven’t you ever wondered who this “They” is that everyone is always referring to when they (SEE? SEE WHAT I MEAN? WHO IS THEY?) Ha! just toying with ya there… I really do need that wine now. It went from a desire to a need… ooops, forgive me, I digress, …back on topic now…And make sure that you use a good resist. Here are a couple of my favorites: Sharpies, Stazon, Whiteout, and last but certainly not least, fingernail polish.
Hope this has helped you in your quest for muratic acid. If nothing else, it was a wild ride, huh? Yes it was!
Now, tomorrow, smile at a stranger and see if he/she smiles back at you. Go ahead… I dare you, I double dog dare you! You’ll get hooked and then you’ll find yourself daring someone else, then some fine day someone is going to be cheesing at me and I’ll intuitively know it was from the line you started…
OHHH WHAT A BUNCH OF MALARKY! But do it anyway! Just because someone may be having a really sucky day and you may be the brightest spot in it cause you made them smile back at you! Funny how that works… I do this TONS OF TIMES A DAY! ohhhh noooo let’s not get started on that subject againnnnnnn…oh, the things I get myself into!
Peaceout!
smile
You can use either Copper Chloride or Iron Chloride, it is what is used for etching electronic print cards.
But if you want a certain depth you will need to experiment with time and temperature.
concentrated muriatic acid is 37% HCl… strong enough to fume… yellow color caused by iron impurities not present in reagent grade HCl acid… mostly ferric chloride.
Always add acid to water is a rule… adding water to concentrated sulfuric acid or even glacial acetic acid causes a instant exothermic hydration reaction leading to steam flashback, with acid splattering.
FeCl3 will etch copper. Ferric iron goes to ferrous iron, with copper going to cuprous and cupric chloride… Another DYI etchant is diluted muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide. H202 provides oxidant power. It does most of the etching… Nitric acid is a strong oxidant, in addition to being a strong acid… it will oxidize and etch almost everything except for high karat gold and platinum. Using even DILUTE nitric acid for etching is tricky…it will under cut the resist quickly…
If anyone is going to use nitric acid, ventilation is a priority… fume hoods or outside… can’t breath in toxic gases evolved from reduction of nitrate…the brown colored gas from metal oxidation is nitrogen dioxide. This gas is highly toxic, corrosive and oxidizing also…
PS: I forgot to add that all etchants can undercut. Ferric chloride is more forgiving that nitric acid. Peroxide and HCl that is dilute is also more forgiving… sharpies are not adequate for a surface resist for a deep cut. The suggestion that bob allison had using spray paint is more time consuming but also is more than adequate. undercutting cannot be prevented unless the piece is monitored carefully. Stop when undercutting starts. faster cutting with nitric acid versus slower cutting with ferric chloride both can undercut but slower cutting is more controllable. Copper is much more reactive than silver. When etching copper, take caution.