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Mokume gane thickness for domes


#1

Hi all,

I’d like to try my hand working with mokume gane sheets and am
thinking of getting some sheets from Reactive Metals Studio. My
question is in regards to the thickness of the sheets. I’d like to
form the sheets into domes, for example, and am wondering if I
should get their 18 or the 24 ga. Will the 24 gauge be too thin if,
for example, the dome is part of a ring? Also, if I use the Baldwin’s
patina, what affect does this have on the copper; will it prevent it
from green oxidization with wear?

Thanks,
D. Jeunesse


#2

Hi all,

I'd like to try my hand working with mokume gane sheets and am
thinking of getting some sheets from Reactive Metals Studio. My
question is in regards to the thickness of the sheets. I'd like to
form the sheets into domes, for example, and am wondering if I
should get their 18 or the 24 ga. Will the 24 gauge be too thin if,
for example, the dome is part of a ring? Also, if I use the
Baldwin's patina, what affect does this have on the copper; will
it prevent it from green oxidization with wear? 

Is there anyone at all that can give a suggestion? I’d like to order
my mokume gane as soon as possible to get it before the holidays,
and any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I’d like to hammer the
mokume gane sheet into a dome using a dapping block and a punch. Is
the 24 gauge too thin for this?

Thanks,
D. Jeunesse


#3

Either one has worked for me. I have used thinner domes (appx 24)
for earrings, but I would prefer the 18 for rings.

Be sure to check the archives for on etching in mokume
rings. James Binnion has called our attention to laminates that do
not work well for prolonged wear.

Debby


#4

The thickness requirements for your domes can vary greatly. How large
a diameter, how high a dome, what type of object, and location? The
simplest answer would be to ask yourself the same question of
sterling silver. What thickness would you use in sterling? Forming
simple dome shapes would not significantly work harden the metals and
soldering would re-anneal. So, they should be consider annealed.
That would be fine in 24g for a pendant or earring. Something in a
belt buckle or ring would require a heavier gauge.

You mention rings. It you are thinking of sterling copper
mokume-gane then you should think again. Mokume-gane containing high
content copper alloys is not recommended for rings. Skin contact is
high. The potential for skin reactions is high. We do not recommend
the use of copper, shakudo or shibuichi in ring fabrications. That
leads you to the all precious metal combinations, a cost factor that
may have you rethinking your designs and market.

Baldwin,s Patina turns copper a very nice warm brown. Like an old
penny. It does not affect sterling or gold alloys. The acid
components secreted by skin in close contact with the patina will
eat through it. Then nature will take it course. This patinas does
not act as a seal from the environment. It is indeed possible for
these acids to eat the copper out of the laminate completely. We have
seen it happen.

I am afraid it is back to the drawing board.

Bill

PS Sorry I didn’t answer sooner. Often it is most interesting to
hang back and watch where a thread goes. B

Bill, Deborah & Michele
Reactive Metals Studio, Inc
928-634-3434, 800-876-3434, 928-634-6734fx


#5

I’d think the 24 ga is a little bit thin, not because it’s mokume but
just because it’s pretty lightweight for the rough and tumble
environment that a ring is subjected to… but then I tend to build
things like unto an Abrams tank so don’t take that part of my reply
TOO seriously :wink:

With regards to the copper, nope, Baldwin’s won’t save you. It’s
pretty but won’t permanently prevent further oxidation.

I have been counseled by people whom I trust implicitly that copper
(pre oxidized or not) will tarnish and, in the presence of other
metals, will form galvanic cells (causing rapid depletion of the
copper). In general copper or copper alloys shold not be used in a
ring, at all, ever. Hands sweat (a lot!), get wet, exposed to soaps,
chemicals, etc, and copper will turn into a nasty mess when used ON A
RING in no time, even on people who exhibit little sensitivity or
reaction to copper in general.

good luck,
Kevin


#6

24 ga is too thin for a ring but ok for most other jewelry

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#7
I'd like to hammer the mokume gane sheet into a dome using a
dapping block and a punch. Is the 24 gauge too thin for this? 

Jeunesse, I saw your first post, and thought others would pick up on
it… As usual, there’s not really an easy answer to your question.
First off is what quality and weight you want to have. Second is what
do you mean by a dome? If your dome is 1/2" wide then 24 ga. is
perfect. If it’s 4" wide it’s so much too thin that it won’t survive
the process. All I can really say, partly because I really don’t even
use gauges anymore, is that I used to use 22 ga for most everything
thinner, and 18 ga for most everything thicker. Again, if you’re
doming a 1/2" dome then 18 ga is too thick to even dome effectively,
but for a 3" concha it’s perfect. Thinner is going to be prone to
denting later on, for one thing… Hope it helps, there’s no "right"
gauge for it, it’s what you’re looking for in the end…

http://www.donivanandmaggiora.com


#8

Hi,

In my opinion, 24 gauge is too thin for a dome on a ring. Any patina
will wear, on a ring.

Hope this helps…
Cynthia Eid
http://www.cynthiaeid.com


#9

Hi D.

Copper and copper based alloys should not be use id a ring, nor
should patinas.copper in contact with the skin creates a galvanic
cell, and will cause the copper to quickly disintegrate, destroying
your hard work. The worst part about this is the fact that it can
turn people off completely to mokume gane, as they think it is a
function of a technique rather than a poor materials choice.

I’d really recommend you purchase one of Reactive’s non-copper or
non-copper alloy patterns. As far as thickness, the shape will give
it strength, but I’d probably lean to the thicker materials. Before I
make anything, we like to test the design. Perhaps making silver
samples would be helpful, and you could try several thicknesses?

But, no copper mokume in rings.and patinas wear off, better to let
the colors of the mokume and the surface finish (matte looks nice
and is easy to care for) be what people see, not something fleeting
that will go away.

Chris
Chris Ploof Studio
508.886.6200 EST
www.ChrisPloof.com


#10

Jeunesse - The mokume gane that is already patterned from Reactive
metals has a sterling back sheet. The 24 gauge would be ok IF you can
shape the dome in such a way that it doesn’t require a lot of
finishing. If the ring would be subject to a lot of banging around,
I’d chose the heavier metal.

Order a small piece of each gauge and try it. Then you will know
what works for you.

The Baldwins patina will color the copper, not the silver. If the
ring is worn a lot, the Baldwins patina will wear away slowly but it
will take a long time for the copper to turn green.

Judy Hoch


#11
In general copper or copper alloys shold not be used in a ring, at
all, ever. 

I’m presuming by copper alloys, you mean alloys that are
predominantly copper, and that you are not including sterling silver
in your sentence “should not be used in a ring, at all, ever”?

Helen
UK


#12
I'm presuming by copper alloys, you mean alloys that are
predominantly copper, and that you are not including sterling
silver in your sentence "should not be used in a ring, at all,
ever"? 

Standard metallurgical shorthand is to refer to an alloy by its
majority constituent. So copper alloys are at least 50% copper, iron
alloys are at least 50% iron etc. So sterling is a silver alloy not
a copper alloy.

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550