Back to Ganoksin | FAQ | Contact

Misleading customers

Hello All,
A war worth fighting? I see things like this vendor’s from time to time and it really messes with my wellbeing. I actually like the ring design he is selling, but know enough about hand hammering titanium (even softer CP) to know that this is not how this ring is fabricated. Best I can tell from his photos (lines in the depressions) is that they are 3D printed (DMLS) then polished. If you read his artist/process information it’s a bit all over the map. But, “hand-made” is the general impression he is selling. Before posting here I emailed seller (maybe in Russia based on name?) praising designs and asking “how do you make them?”. The answer received this morning was- “Hi) with hands! :joy:”. Many (most) consumers don’t really care how/where there things are made, but some do (especially/thankfully regarding jewelry) and they’re being intentionally mislead. So where am I going with this? Ugh, I suppose it’s my idealist side dreaming that a better educated world, is a better world :-). To that effort, I’m going to write the “artist” and suggest he rework his descriptions. Or have his shop reported.
Hope you are all having a good day!
Jeff

Judging by the picture, I would say that the texture on that ring is ground with a small radius belt sander, an abrasive wheel or a cylindrical burr. I would classify it as hand made, unless it is massproduced by cnc-machining, which I very much doubt.

1 Like

You know Emillind, after zooming (and zooming) in on said ring, I think you are probably right. I’ve tried to do such textures with burrs on 6-4 titanium before and the results were an absolute mess (and these look really nice). But… I suppose using softer commercially pure titanium, a steady hand (or fixture) and the “right” cutting tool, this surface is quite doable. I think I got thrown off by the consistency and perfect alignment of the striations- something always evident in a 3D printing build (which I have no issue with if declared). I think as a penance for badnaming a fellow ETSY seller (and because the price seems quite reasonable), I’ll support the arts and place an order for one :-). I’ll be sure and report back. Jeff

I have had my Etsy jewelry shop since 2016. All I can say is, “get used to it and move on”. Etsy is supposed to be handmade or vintage shops exclusively, but much the jewelry is machine made — attractive and cheap. Directly from China. Fortunately, I opened up my shop while there was still a chance to establish a clientele, but I feel sorry for new shops who are trying to compete with cheap fakes. Customers have a 100 day window to do refunds, returns, and reviews so they give great reviews before the plate wears off - LOL!

I saw a gorgeous turquoise ring listed in a shop recently and then I saw the exact same one in 4 other shops! Turns out even the turquoise was plastic… You can report them to Etsy (I did that a couple of times myself several years ago) but they make a lot of money on these stores, so they will not do anything to them unless it is an IP violation (Intellectual Property). Just take a deep breath and go back to the bench to make something original and beautiful!

2 Likes

I’d say they were done with an abrasive wheel or large burr (which would give exactly that texture). No way you could get such sharp interstices between the depressions with hammering, but exactly what you would get from overlapping wheel gouges. Abrasive wheels can be shaped.

Janet in Jerusalem.

Anymore I find hammered to be an appearance more than a technique. I suspect that is the case in this piece of jewelry. I believe Janet is correct as to how it was applied. I will shape wheels to get a similar appearance. The work is mine and it is original, and most often it is one off. I don’t see where there is any misleading of the customer in what I present to the customer. It is all proof stamped and hallmarked.

D

So… I went ahead and purchased this ring. The seller is in Moscow. His English isn’t great, but he’s trying hard with multiple texts to satisfy any specific details- he asked me how “rude” I want edges :-). I haven’t seen my ring yet, but I already like the guy! Guess I need to gripe about someone else!
Anyone know what Duty I’m about to get hit with?
Jeff

3 Likes

no way it’s hammered. it’s ground with something. please send a pic when you get it. dying to know!

I think reporting this seller is quite the wrong thing to do. It is very possible that he has spent hours refining a technique that is unique to himself and that he doesn’t want to share that technique because he doesn’t want to see a thousand and one copies of it appearing on selling sites. That is perfectly kosher and that’s why he has sent you the humorous message"Hi - with hands!" I also don’t like the fact that you have put the word artist inside quote marks because it implies he isn’t one.

I am totally perplexed why you have used the word “Kosher” in describing an action in jewellery.
I suggest you Google the word “Kosher” and please for all honesty try another word. For your information Kosher really means not to eat Pork or all other kinds of animals who don’t have to chew their food while in their digestive tract.
Kosher has no bearing on jewellery or clients.
Kosher has another use and that is some animals eat unclean food, animal refuse and eating animals that have no (split hooves) or cloven feet. I could keep going on and on, but for goodness sake use another word…PLEASE!
Do some research while you are writing your text and you just never know who your readers are.
Gerry Lewy who researches first and never uses unsavoury language!..;>(

2 Likes

As I said in my later posts Hilary- I am repentant. $135 worth!!!
I got it wrong with this artist because my HYPER sensitivity to misinformation (which effects our profession AND the whole of society) had me jumping to conclusions. Fortunately, these days I’m cool with acknowledging missteps and maybe learn. And, do my small part to advance the species :-).
Time to go make stuff! Jeff

1 Like

A slang use of the word “kosher” is to state whether or not something is generally acceptable. I.e. it isn’t kosher to put your dirty shoes up on your best bud’s coffee table and light up a cigarette. I’m not sure how far reaching the slang is but in South Africa it’s not uncommon.
To be honest I, myself, as well as many of my friends growing up secular/Christian would have heard the slang usage of kosher long before the original intended usage.

Language changes, especially in the case of loanwords where they’ll evolve separately to their original counterpart.
Another example being: “Über” being German for “above” or “over” (as far as I understand my Deutsch is lacking) in English is a synonym to super.
I can only think of other South African specific ones right now but there are plenty more. And even far more than that if you take words that were loaned at any point in the last several hundred years. There are a whole bunch of English words that don’t even mean what they were intended to mean in English! :slight_smile:

2 Likes

If I can find a technique or method that is novel in this jewellery profession I WILL SHARE THIS WITH ANYONE if I drop dead and do not have a chance in sharing it. The shame will be on me.
My teacher “Stanley Anthony Levine,(Z"L) from Toronto and 0F BLESSED MEMORY” taught me so many fantastic and interesting Diamond Setting techniques, that many of my essays in my blog were from his hands. Just where is this so wrong?
We are here on Ganoksin willing & wanting to share and not to keep techniques quiet and secretive. I want to make life made easier for anyone. Here is my proof, just go to my blog (which is of no charge to you!) and this free-sharing 46,810 readers, has now gone to 28 COUNTRIES.
If I spend 6 months in designing a method and to explain how to modify an Onglette graver to Bright-Cut in and around a 3.5 mm genuine stone in a Tube Bezel. If this method is seen in a third-world country and it helps that person, WOW I’ve achieved something more than one person can do. Where is it written that we mustn’t do this? "gerrysdiamondsettingessays.blogspot.com"

3 Likes

I think you are being hypersensitive over the use of the word “kosher”. In my part of the world it just means that something is OK. If I had to look up the use of every word I use in posts I would spend my time doing nothing but look up words! Thank you so much for your post, CallumBryn. It says all that needs to be said about the way words change in meaning and usage and the way loanwords (I love that word - ‘loanwords’ - I’ve never heard it before but I shall use it from now on :slightly_smiling_face:). Here’s another contribution to this fascinating topic: in Shakespearian England to call someone ‘naughty’ was a grave insult. It was as bad as the ‘f’ word today and meant that someone was less than nothing as in “You are naught, you are naught!” Today, of course, it has nothing of that severity.

1 Like

This is very good of you, Gerry. I have benefited many times from the astonishing generosity of people who contribute to sites like Ganoksin. However, I also respect the fact that some makers (jewellers, butchers, bakers or candlestick makers) might want to keep their methodologies under commercial copyright. That is their right and they should not be judged adversely for it.

This is my experience as well. Growing up I vaguely remember a few weeks where we studied other cultures in Elementary school. One section was about the Jewish faith and the culture in General. We even visited a synagogue which for me as a little kid was awesome. SO technically I was vaguely aware of the correct usage of the word growing up. But I never thought about it.

It was not until I started working in the Trade that I ever had much contact daily with anyone of that faith. To be honest, I never found any opportunity to use the slang version or the correct version in selling or making jewelry ever that I can recall.
I have run into a few, mostly older people, who wanted to work with my Jewish colleagues due to their religion. But it is rare in my town. So for me language is a non-issue for me when working.

As to how the language changes, My wife who grew up speaking “English” has a lot to say about the “American” that I speak. I could tell hours of stories due to that! :wink:

It is sometimes surprising how and how fast languages change.

Maybe in particular English, which in its core is a hybrid language mostly composed from French and old “British” languages as Anglo Saxon, Keltic, Nordic dialects and so on.

And due to the wast size of the British Empire they took in an astounding amount of loanwords.

But in this modern time information is spread around the world in no time, and so is words, expressions and language fragments as well.

If one could keep a language clean (and I’m not sure that would be wise) it would take a large amount of energy and education.

To my surprise even the ones that live
by the word (have language as their tools),
like journalists do not keep a proper language.

So how could the rest of us do more than try.

I like to try to keep a pure language with as
little slang as possible, but still,
I fail again and again :wink:

In retrospect I have realized that,
allthough the evolution of languages are
an interesting and intriguing part of our
cultural evolution.
It clearly do not belong here.

Furtermore I think I missed the target, which was disagreement in how an expression can and can not be used and understood.
I hope my rants have not offended anyone and my two posts here can be deleted or moved by an Admin.