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Metal Shrunk by Powerful Magnetic Field?


#1

I got an e-mail from Edmund Scientifics selling a quarter-dollar
which had been shrunk by magnetic field. Has anyone ever heard of
this?!

Ad and link are below (photo on website):

“Original Eagle Shrunken Quarter - This incredible novelty is a
real quarter shrunken by high-velocity metal forming. An
invisible, yet extremely powerful magnetic field pulses the coin
with a shock wave that forces it to change physical shape in the
blink of an eye. Up to 100,000 amperes of current is forced
through the work coil wrapped around the coin and it is
eventually explosively destroyed in the shrinking process,
leaving only the shrunken coin behind. The resulting quarter
maintains the same mass, volume, and density, but the size is
drastically reduced!”

http://tinyurl.com/343zp6


#2

Ah, Edmund Scientific - I didn’t know they were still around. Out of
curiosity, I went looking, and here:
http://teslamania.delete.org/frames/shrinkergallery.html

is all about how it’s done.

http://www.donivanandmaggiora.com


#3

I don’t know anything about the claims, but if you look at the
images provided, they don’t quite match. The reduced quarter is
probably just a reproduction.

Mary Ellin D’Agostino, PhD
www.medacreations.com


#4
I don't know anything about the claims, but if you look at the
images provided, they don't quite match. The reduced quarter is
probably just a reproduction. 

Nope not a reproduction or fake. The effect is created from dumping a
huge amount of power stored in special capacitor banks into a coil of
wire with the quarter inside the coil. There is an incredible
magnetic field created when this is done that field is induced into
the quarter and the opposing forces of the field in the quarter and
the coil cause the coil to vaporize and the quarter to “shrink” The
gotcha is that while the quarter does indeed get smaller in diameter
it also gets thicker. There is no way to compress matter in our
local area (black holes may do so right before the mater
disintegrates) so the mass and volume are the same before and after
but the shape of the quarter is changed. For more in depth
go to http://teslamania.delete.org/frames/shrinker.html

to see the equipment and results on various objects. If anyone
decides that this looks like fun, do a lot of study on high voltage
electronics safety before trying it at home, the tools he is working
with are killers if you ever come in contact with them while charged.

Jim

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#5

On a less powerful scale the process is used in necking or reducing
the size of tubing for heat and coiling coil applications. And for
crimping assorted sized small motor and other metal/plastic or metal
to metal assemblages or equipment. The advantage of the pulsed
magnetic field is in a necking machine by controlling the pulse you
don’t need a set of dies for each of the different dia sizes there
by cutting and keeping cost down.

And the distortion is a normal result, when a force is applied to
metal no matter what form the force is in. (Heat, bending, striking,
(shrinking and stretching sheet metal body work)) As the web site J
D provided has stated. The reaction to the power will be different in
each metal and the bond between them. And the other thing is they
are two separate quarters, with differing wear and abuse patterns
etc. For a photo side by side comparison.

Glen


#6

Yes, There are real coins out there like this. I can’t speak for the
products coming from Edmunds, but as a passionate amateur scientist
who has built devices capable of shrinking coins and producing other
facinating effects, I can say in the first person “yes, been there,
done that”. These instruments are producing huge amounts of current
and dumping it all in one catastrophic blast. Depending on the coil
or other device the current is dumped into, various effects can be
obtained, from the shrinking of coins, the crushing of cans (or
cutting them cleanly in half). Very dangerous stuff to mess with if
you are not familiar with high voltage devices, but they certainly do
exist. A web search on High Voltage Devices will bring up hundreds of
sites maintained by obsessed HV enthusiasts. I believe another site
offering the coins for sale among a lot of other strange materials is
United Nuclear - My son bought me a plexiglass block which had a high
current dumped through it (an insulator) and the discharge pattern is
captured for ever inside the block.

If you are of the scientific (geek) type, you can apply many
techniques to metals to yield all manner of results and no one else
will be able to figure out how you got a piece of metal to do what it
did! Take a look around the web but please seek professional advice
before going anywhere near this type of equipment, or attempting to
build it. Your home current is about 30 amps and can kill you, so
100,000 amps will not only kill you, but have the same effect as
jumping on a grenade.

A bit off topic for metalsmithing, but interesting just the same.

Best Regards,
Jim DeRosa


#7

Well,

I thought is a bit wierd, the claim for instance for “identical
volume” did not seem to make any sense. But, a skim on the net shows
that it seems to be a relative of magneforming, which is a very real
industrial technique. And, if Popular Science has an article on it
(see below) then it is very probably real.

http://www.engineershandbook.com/MfgMethods/emforming.htm good
description of magnetic forming

http://www.eod.gvsu.edu/eod/manufact/manufact-232.html
another description

http://www.dae.gov.in/ni/ninov04/7.htm
A description with some images

http://205.243.100.155/frames/Shrinking_History.htm
quarter shrinking discussion

http://205.243.100.155/frames/Shrinking_History.htm
more on shrinking with explanatory links

http://www.magnet-physik.de/shaping-technique_magnetopuls.html
A service company that uses the technique to make parts smaller


A how-to discussion of doing this from popular science magazine

http://teslamania.delete.org/photos/ShrunkenCoins1.PDF
a download on the subject (Tessla nuts unite)

best
Charles


#8

On a slightly different tack, I notice that there is some confusing
terminology associated with some of the sources found on the
internet and people’s postings (including my first post on the
subject).

People talk about high voltage electricity (and I wrongly used the
term myself) being a killer, but it’s really the current with which
that voltage flows that is the killer. Also I noticed that articles
mentioned “high power” with regard to the coin shrinkage method, but
power is to do with watts as in a light bulb and power is measured
in watts. This is wrong as the equipment uses high current to push
high voltage - not high power.

As I said before, I don’t really do physics and I may still have got
something wrong and I’m sure someone will correct me if that’s the
case, but there is some confusing terminology written on the
subject.

Helen
UK


#9
I thought is a bit wierd, the claim for instance for "identical
volume" did not seem to make any sense. 

The identical volume makes perfect sense. As James Binnion says, we
cannot compress matter (well not solid or liquid matter anyway - we
can compress a gas obviously). The mass of the coin will be identical
to the original mass and the volume of the coin will be identical to
the original volume, and its density will remain the same, but its 3D
dimensions will differ from the original. Calculate the volume ((pi x
radius) squared x thickness) from the new dimensions and they’ll be
the same as the calculated volume of the coin to start with. The
original quoted explanation of what remained the same an what was
changed was not very well written. “The resulting quarter maintains
the same mass, volume, and density, but the size is drastically
reduced!”. The size in one dimension (or two in the case of a circle)
is reduced but the size in the 3rd dimension (its thickness) is
increased, therefore maintaining the coin’s mass, volume and density.

Helen
UK


#10

I wondered why the world looked bigger since I had an MRI scan!!!
:wink:

Best wishes,
Ian


#11
If anyone decides that this looks like fun, do a lot of study on
high voltage electronics safety before trying it at home, the tools
he is working with are killers if you ever come in contact with them
while charged. 

Yes it looks like fun but it’s also something I’m more than happy to
read about and view other people’s experimentation on the subject.
High voltage electronics is something that scares the bejeebers out
of me!!! And besides, it’s physics and I don’t do physics. :wink: But
fascinating idea nonetheless.

Helen
UK


#12
I thought is a bit wierd, the claim for instance for "identical
volume" did not seem to make any sense. 

Sure it does, Charles. It HAS to be that way, so long as no metal is
actually being removed. it’s only being formed. The density won’t
change, nor the type of metal or it’s weight, since it’s only being
formed, with nothing removed. So then, the volume must remain the
same. (though if this were a cast piece, likely any porosity would be
compressed, which WOULD then slightly increase the density and lower
the volume. But a struck coin is already fully dense, so that’s not
happening here…)

The answer of course is that while it decreases in size in the
horizontal plane, which is perpendicular to the orientation of the
coil and the magnetic field produced by that coil, the thickness of
the coin is increased accordingly. It’s the same as one might do with
a hammer when upsetting the edge of sheet metal, except this method
works on the entire sheet simultaneously, rather than just the edge
as one would do with a hammer. If high enough power levels could be
achieved, the method would turn the coin into wire, with perhaps the
remnants of the coin image maybe still showing on the ends of the
wire…

I’ve seen lower power versions of this forming method used to
compress fairly large diameter thin wall tube into a necked in shape
in the middle (hourglass sort of thing) with minimal distortion. In
that case, it was part of the forming process to produce some sort of
rf wave guide, if I recall right. That machine was doing one after
another, so there the coil producing the magnetic field wasn’t self
destructing… I might be wrong, but I think that was basically the
same technology as the example with these coins. Saw it not long ago
on some Discovery Channel show on high tech manufacturing methods…
(love that series of TV channels…)

Peter


#13

The following quote from the link provided by John Donivan explains
the process in a nutshell:

A shrunken coin weighs exactly the same as before, and its density
is also unchanged. The coin becomes thicker as its diameter is
reduced, but the overall volume of the coins stays the same." 

OK now I believe that it is not just snake oil. An amazing soopadoopa
gee-wizz method to re-form a metal object while preserving the
surface details to some extent does exist. There may be a practical
use for jewellery purposes after all; once you get past the snake-oil
rap!

Alastair


#14
high voltage electricity (and I wrongly used the term myself) being
a killer, but it's really the current with which that voltage flows
that is the killer. 

More accurately it’s the combination of both, though amperage is more
harmful than voltage. My electricity (just the basics) teacher
described amperage as the water in a pipe, and voltage as the
pressure behind it. Water with no pressure isn’t so bad, pressure
with no water isn’t so bad, it’s high pressure water that’s bad.
Either one alone in large quantities will still mess up a human
being, though.

http://www.donivanandmaggiora.com


#15

I don’t do physics either but Current doesn’t “push” voltage.
Actually it’s the reverse- think of voltage as being the force (the
"push") that drives the volume of electrons (the “Amps”).
Multiplying the voltage times the amps gives you the wattage, or
power.

Just thought I’d throw that in while I’m waiting for the flux to dry,
lol!

Kenton


#16
People talk about high voltage electricity (and I wrongly used the
term myself) being a killer, but it's really the current with
which that voltage flows that is the killer. Also I noticed that
articles mentioned "high power" with regard to the coin shrinkage
method, but power is to do with watts as in a light bulb and power
is measured in watts. 

Helen I spent 15 years of my life working with electronics systems.
Much of that time was working with radar and radio systems with
power levels much greater than the power supplies that these guys are
using for the coin shrinking. Power (watts) is amps times volts so
the coin shrinkers are truly high power systems as they deliver huge
amounts voltage and current. High voltage is much more dangerous than
low voltage in virtually any circumstance. You are right that the
current is what will kill you. However for an example while an
automobile battery will deliver a significant amount of current
(600-1000 amps) and all that is required to kill is about 15 milli
amps, I would grab both terminals of a 12 volt auto battery without
any concern for my safety but I will give wide berth to a 12 thousand
volt 2 milliamp power supply as it would knock me across the room if
I touch it. To get the current to flow through your body you must
break down the skin resistance to allow the current to flow and to do
this you need a certain amount of voltage, how much depends on
several factors but when you are talking thousands of volts it
doesn’t really matter as there is more than enough to overcome any
amount of skin resistance so if you come in contact with it and there
is enough current present the odds are that it will kill you period
end of story. However you can very often survive contact with the 120
-240 volts that is present in a household electric circuit even
though there is a huge amount of current available.

This is wrong as the equipment uses high current to push high
voltage - not high power. 

You have it backward the voltage (potential difference) is what
allows the current to flow. The product of the voltage times the
current is the power.

Jim

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#17

Helen

there is some confusing terminology written on the subject. 

§ower=(V)oltage X ©urrent there are several other expressions
which reflect the relationship, but, this is basically the one our
power bills reflect.

Also in my first post in response, I neglected thickness in my
consideration. Looking at the other posts some people have made and
my own search on the net, the thickness does indeed change.

Terry


#18
(P)ower=(V)oltage X (C)urrent there are several other expressions
which reflect the relationship, but, this is basically the one our
power bills reflect. 

I posted in the almost positive knowledge that I was off the mark on
the subject but I still found some of the terminology a little
confusing.

Also in my first post in response, I neglected thickness in my
consideration. Looking at the other posts some people have made
and my own search on the net, the thickness does indeed change. 

As for the changes in dimensions, the thickness of the coin HAD to
increase as the volume, mass and density couldn’t be changed. That
part of physics I do understand. It’s the electricity stuff I can’t
handle.

Helen
UK


#19
You have it backward the voltage (potential difference) is what
allows the current to flow. The product of the voltage times the
current is the power. 

Thanks for the James - I do appreciate it genuinely. As
I said I’m not really up on physics and did say that I’d probably got
it wrong - particularly when it comes to electricity/electronics (not
sure what the difference is!). It’s frightening to think that I was
in charge of teaching such things to children for a while! -
although I did make sure I got it right before teaching the little
darlings. The trouble is I never really understood it, which is why
I’ve never been able to retain the It always has me
confuzzled!

The stuff I have retained from my chemistry/biology degree days is
the stuff I understood. Anything else I guess I memorised for the
purpose of passing the exams but it has long since faded away.

Helen
UK


#20
People talk about high voltage electricity (and I wrongly used the
term myself) being a killer, but it's really the current with which
that voltage flows that is the killer. 

With no practical education or training in electricity, what I
learned about electricity came from the school of hard shocks. My
accident proness includes many bouts with electricity. But my junior
highschool science teacher told a tale of two men that had a bet
that 12 volts would/wouldn’t kill you. So they set up an experiment
with massive copper cables attached to a 12 volt battery and the one
who was on the betting side of 12 volts wouldn’t kill you held on to
the cables then placed both arms in a barral of brine. According to
the story he dropped dead immediately. Whether the story is true or
not it stuck in my mind and gave me a rudimentary understanding of
volts and amperage. Sounds like a good myth for Mythbusters to bust
or confirm.

Rick Copeland
Silversmith and Lapidary Artisan
Rocky Mountain Wonders
Colorado Springs, Colorado
rockymountainwonders.com