Metal forming daffodils—Ideas on how?

Y’all, I finally figured it out!!! So I’m going to share this so the information is just out there floating around. I tried doing what Nicole Ringgold did in her video. She took a disc and put it into a large dapping block sphere then a smaller dapping block sphere and partially melted it to form the frilly edges of the daffodil trumpet. I ended up figuring out a different method that I like and doesn’t require melting, so I’m going to share it. Pierce or punch out a circle and hammer the edges with a cross-pein all the way around until the edges flare and frill. Anneal, pickle, rinse, dry, put it in warm soft pitch. Next, get several dapping punches, the largest of them not being as big as the disc or enough to cover the outer flared edges. Start with the largest dapping punch working down to the smallest, put it in the center of the disc and whack it hard three times. Then do the next size down, whack it hard three times. Anneal, pickle, rinse, dry, put it back in the pitch, get the next size down dapping punch, stick it in the center of the disc, whack it hard three times, next size down, whack it hard three times, anneal, etc etc. until you get the trumpet either deep enough to your liking OR the metal at the center starts to split open. I found that starting with the largest dapping punch gives the metal more leeway as you work your way down whereas if you use only one punch size, it splits much faster because that one punch is putting all the force on one spot on the meal so if you use several different sizes from largest to smallest it gives you more working room to stretch the metal out. As far as texturing the outer side of the trumpet, fill the trumpet with pitch after you’ve stretched and annealed it, put it in the pitch, use either a line stamp or a cross-pein to tap the sides and create the lines you usually see on daffodil trumpets. Maybe I’ll post a picture of what I made. The stone setting isn’t perfect in what I did, I’m still trying to develop my skills in that area, but the daffodils turned out ok. I’m also not happy with the wires either because they’re totally uneven and the solder job was a total bomb. I’m sure there are other methods you could use for making daffodils, but this one worked out pretty well. I made a large pendant with pale yellow aventurine for my mother. Now that I’ve got the daffodil thing kinda figured out, I’m planning on making one for myself using yellow chalcedony that’s a brighter yellow. And doing a better job with the stone setting and wires next time around, but hey it was a learning experience.

I finished reading the Foldforming book by the way, I’m on to a couple of stone setting books I got! I actually have an addiction to buying books and reading. I had to buy TWO new seven foot bookshelves in addition to the 6 foot one and a huge ledge across the back of an enormous desk that are full of books. I’m developing quite an expansive library of goldsmithing, gemology, lapidary, and jeweler books now. I MUST read every single one! I ran out of bookshelf room like 20 years ago… but kept buying books. I had books stuffed in every box, corner, nook, and cranny in this house, like it was bad, but now they all have a home. Here’s my jeweler and books on related topics, minus the ones I’ve got out currently reading. The shelf below has the journals I’ve filled with notes from goldsmithing and jeweler videos I’ve watched (they don’t take up the whole shelf, there’s other stuff, too), and the one above it has mostly books on art and some random history books. I haven’t read all these yet, but I’m going to.

If you see any books I don’t have that you know of, I’m all ears!!! I have two more books coming and about $3,000 worth of jeweler books sitting in my Amazon cart right now that I’m slowly going through and buying.

3 Likes

Hi,
ok, yay, you used pitch for your first iteration.

for your second, i suggest using a small dapping punch, and tapping modestly…imagine concentric circles drawn where you want it to recess…move the punch and tap modestly in the concentric pattern (while the pitch is supportive but slightly warm…

anneal

the work a smaller concentric circle

anneal

repeat until you get the conical shape

you will be amazed how much metal will move/ stretch

it shouldn’t split if you anneal often…you can feel it…dibce you are using a small punch and tapping modestly…

i made a tiered heart that ended up being about 3/4” high!

i gave it away…if i find a pic i will post it

julie

found em




julie

2 Likes

That’s actually what I tried doing initially because that’s what Nicole Ringgold did, and it works. But I ended up putting them in pitch afterwards because they weren’t moving enough. The thing that I don’t like about using the dapping block is it leaves an impression on the outside of the tube that’s difficult to polish away. Like for the trumpets there needs to be vertical lines, but the dapping block leaves some really deep horizontal lines. Nicole Ringgold ended up getting around that problem by then partially melting her trumpets, which erases the horizontal lines, but I didn’t feel super comfortable using her technique. Usually when I partially melt stuff the results are disastrous, not artistic lol. Hopefully her book coming out will explain exactly how to do that without destroying your piece, but I’m not there yet.

1 Like

Great work!! And thanks for sharing your process.

Hi,
no…yess…i meant in pitch….using the dapping punches……not the dapping block…

julie

1 Like

Hi,
also, i have seen wood blocks used…on the end cut side…where there are grooves filed/ hammered in with a ball peen…where you yse. the groove to ruffke the edges…

if i see a video i will post…i am trying to recal who i saw doing it…melissa miur, perhaps…?

you would just scale your grooves and hanmmers accordingly…

julie

1 Like

Are you talking about a board with holes drilled in it to make the trumpet? I made one of those, I’ve got this board with lots of different hole sizes. The guy on Lion Punch Forge (is that what it’s called?) used one. I tried that too, split the metal. I kept having issues with the metal splitting with everything I tried. I tried flaring tubes I made on the horn of an anvil — solder seam split THREE TIMES no matter how gentle I was. Tried using the board, split the bottom. There’s got to be another way to make these things, not just daffodils but this trumpet type thing, I’ve seen the same basic shape on the cover of two different books. I’m actually reading one of those books right now, it’s sitting in front of me, but it’s on stone setting not metal forming so they don’t explain how this thing was formed, just how stones were set in it. Maybe they use CAD/CAM, I have no idea.


See? How’d they do that?! Lol this thing looks so simple, but it turned out to be the hardest thing I’ve made yet.

Oh maybe you’re talking about using a board to ruffle the edges, just using grooves. I watched that video, that would work, too, I liked her method. The only thing I couldn’t figure out was how to use that method on something so small. She made quite a large flower, lots of room to pound it into a board’s groove, but the little discs I used to make the trumpets were very small. I was actually thinking of this video but couldn’t figure out how to apply it to such a small disc. I have a hand vise, maybe hold the disc in that? I don’t know, that might work.

Hi,

kinda like this

using appropriately shaped/ sized depressions on the end grain cut of wood

and a thin peen hammer

to shape and flute



julie

2 Likes

Hi again,

re splitting metal…anneal anneal anneal…

ok, so i think a really good book to get is the below…i dont think it was mentioned on this thread yet…

it teaches an understanding of how to move metal…concave…convex…compound curves…spreading metal…compressing metal…i think that once the fundamentals are understood, then one can apply them to get various shapes

metal on metal…metal on wood…delrin hammers…synclastic/ sinosoidal stakes…stake theory…the various hammers and their uses…

then! you can peruse NC Black hammers! yum yum!

the nano and micro nylon are delicious!

https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Metal-Forming-Betty-Longhi/dp/1929565496/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=17GGMH9PIC698&keywords=metal+forming+book&qid=1698632982&sprefix=metal+forming+book%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-3

julie

2 Likes

I have that book! Haven’t read it yet, but it’s seriously the next one I’m reading when I’m done with the current book. I have some hammers from NCBlack, I have the spiculum forming hammers and the smaller closing hammers. So you think the answer to my question is in this book, yeah? I’m going to read it next, I really want to figure this out. Thank you!

Hi,

as far as forming the trumpet, i would say yes, definitely!

it is a great book!

i think the metal splitting issue needs to be resolved…you should be able to form a moderate amount without the splitting…

is it only on the seam?

what gauge metal is it happening with? are you using 24 gauge?

are you annealing enough?…like after each course/ round of hammering?…

i know that metal hammer on metal form does thin the metal mire than say metal hammer on delrin or wood stake, or delrin hammer on metal stake…

p.s.”spiculum hammers!”…you are very adventurous! i only have 3 nylon hammers! but there is just something about them that is beautiful when you are striking…it is like a perfect balance…a perfect recoil…i dunno…very satisfying
metal is pretty amazing in how much it moves…

julie

I actually made my niece a daffodil ring and Oliver Christenson has a great youtube on forging them.

1 Like

His page is “shaping silver” and the title is "forging a silver daffodil "

1 Like

Hi,

and look!


julie

2 Likes

Hi Kimberly,

thank you for sharing! he has a great youtube channel!

great video!

Dana, this technique looks like it would work for small!

julie

3 Likes

Thank you!!! I’m gonna watch this!!! I’m so stoked, I couldn’t find anything decent on forming daffodils!!

1 Like