Simple question (probably with many different answers) - when it
comes to sterling/fine silver, is it cheaper to buy sheet or to “roll
your own” (literally) from ingots or heavy wire ?
Brian Corll
Vassar Jewelers
Simple question (probably with many different answers) - when it comes to sterling/fine silver, is it cheaper to buy sheet or to "roll your own" (literally) from ingots or heavy wire ?
I think the answer will be somewhat different for everyone.
Certainly, the cost of materials is less when you melt your scrap
with fresh shot and roll it yourself. However, it takes time away
from the rest of the fabrication process. In the end, a person has
to ask whether they can melt and roll quickly enough to make their
time at the rolling mill profitable. If not, paying the extra for
pre-milled sheet may be cheaper in the end.
James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL
Hi Brian,
when it comes to sterling/fine silver, is it cheaper to buy sheet or to "roll your own" (literally) from ingots or heavy wire ?
The general answer is, it’s cheaper to buy it. That assumes you’re
buying more than just a little at a time. The refiners produce lots
of this stuff & have he expertise & the specialized machines to
ensure quality products.
Your time is more valuable as a designer/fabricator of the finished
jewelry item.
One big exception to the 1st statement is the need for just a small
quantity of material to meet a deadline. Especially when it’s 3:00
on Fri & the job needs to be delivered at 5 on Fri. Then the only way
is to fabricate the amount you need.
Dave
Hi Brian,
I roll my own for the following reasons: I can make 925 or 950 as
needed; I mostly need small pieces for jewelery and small silverware;
and my melting and casting setup matches the capacity of my rolling
mill. If I need a sheet bigger than the capacity of my rolling mill
(3" wide and 5mm thickness) then I buy it.
The main problem in rolling your own is to get a clean ingot without
any porosity or contamination at the start. I have found that clean
raw materials, not over-heating, and de-oxyginating (get rid of
dissolved oxygen) with some phosphorous (match heads) just before
pouring, helps to get a clean ingot. A closed ingot mould ensures
that any defects will be at one end of the ingot, not all along the
top surface as with an open mould. Using files or burrs, I grind out
any visible defects before and during rolling.
Thanks for the question Brian, I am keen to see other replies. I was
going to include here a Japanese ingot casting technique, but it may
be a separate topic so have sent it to Orchid in a separate email.
Regards, Alastair
brian -
when it comes to sterling/fine silver, is it cheaper to buy sheet or to "roll your own"
there are a few occasions when it is all right to melt and roll your
own silver, here is a short list:
-
if you feel that you do not have enough torment in your every day
life what with the crack house next door, the hell’s angels’ club
house across the street and the theft of your identity by an escaped
convict - melt and roll away. -
if you have a seriously bad disease and suffer so much pain that
you would like to create even more pain to cancel out the original
pain - melt and roll away. -
you are captured by aliens and are forced to choose to either melt
and roll, or be launched into outer space through their titanium
torpedo tube without a space suit - be sure to wave ‘bye-bye’ to them
as you exit.
buy the sheet - life is too short to reinvent the wheel.
ive
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Alastair,
Thanks for coming to the rescue…I thought I was the only one to
roll sheet anymore. I don’t do it regularly but find it a great way
to use up all those sprue buttons and scrap the students leave laying
around. Funny…they grumble when I charge them a student fee and
when I tell them they have to purchase their own silver after the
first three projects…you would think I’m asking for their first
born. But then they leave bits and pieces all over the place! I pick
up one to 2 oz a month that way. How better than to melt it down and
make sheet or wire etc.
The phosphorous tip sounds interesting. I have not had any obvious
problems with O2 but just might try your suggestion.
Cheers from Don at The Charles Belle Studio in SOFL where simple
elegance IS fine jewelry! @coralnut2
The only time that I buy sterling sheet is for projects where I need
large areas of perfect sheet.
For brooches, rings, neckpieces, etc. I roll down my own gold,
silver and, at times, bronze sheet and wire. It really depends on
what you make and how you work.
I have no “crack house next door” or “Hell’s Angel’s Club across the
street” but neither do I have huge amounts of superfluous time to
throw away.
I have found for years that rolling out the material that I need
allows me to utilize clean scrap, fabricate an item from stock in
dimensions that are not commonly stocked by most suppliers and
produce a bit of stock when I need it rather than waiting for UPS or
spending time driving and parking downtown to get the small bit of
stock that I need.
Much of my work is forged, so dimensional issues are important to
me. I am not apt to use a simple piece of wire… But when I do, I
can have that length of wire or piece of sheet in several pain and
chronically disease free minutes, using the gold or silver scrap that
would otherwise end up in the assay bucket.
Finally, melting and pouring metals gives you an understanding of
the material in a whole different way that can open windows into
surface, form and overall design. (Sort of an "alien’ perspective.)
Life is, indeed, short. When I need something, I usually need it
now-- not in 2 days. That being said, I’ll reiterate that for certain
projects such as hollowware, large flatware and certain jewelry
applications, I’ll but stock. I may have a roll of 10 or 8 ga wire
that I’ll draw or roll down as needed. I may also have a supply of
heavy walled seamless tube. I always buy lengths of straight 14k 2o
ga wire for earrings: drawing it barrel straight and semihard is
tough. There are times when I have a large sheet of 18g sterling in
house that I’ll cut bits off and roll if needed.
But I can’t imagine not having the ability to pour and roll out
metal or the freedom it gives me. It really takes the pressure off in
some instances. If I’m working on a piece of gold or silver sheet and
I melt it or cut it wrong, I know that I can have that sheet back in
15 minutes. That’s a really nice feeling.
So, “melt and roll away”.
Just another viewpoint.
Andy Cooperman
Who says remember people: there’s more than one way to skin a cat.
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Ejected out of an anlien spacecraft without a suit —Ha Ha. Not too
far from the truth. I would agree with two replies I read on this. It
is a lot of work to get marginal results on $20 worth of silver
sheet, kind’ve like doing it to take your mind off of the terminal
cancer (funny post!) We roll sheet like the other poster said - small
quantities, as needed - we really don’t use silver much, and when we
do it’s most often a model - firescale and such don’t matter. If you
are doing sheet metal work, and need really good, clean, sheet, then
buy it. As the one post said, “enclosed mold, Mill the surface”,
wgich is one reason commercial sheet is so nice, they are milling the
ingots before rolling. They are also rolling wide sheets, and cutting
off the edges. AND they have big-time foundry equipment.
Ive,
Gee, I’ve experienced all of those terrors you speak of, and I still
feel like rolling sheet. Is there something seriously wrong with me
? 
Brian Corll
Vassar Jewelers
Hey Brian,
There have been quite a few opinions about the relative merits of
making your own wire and sheet stock versus buying it ready-made.
There are advantages to both. I make my own stock, and teach my
students to make their own. Yes, it is a bit of work, and I’ll admit
that rolling out a lot of sheet stock takes a good amount of time and
effort to do.
Wire making, however, goes pretty quickly, and the effort is not
unduly difficult because the mass of metal going through the mill is
relatively small. A good combination rolling mill with a few
removable side rollers for 1/2 round stock, large and small
drawplates for round wire, a combination ingot mold, a few melting
dishes, and you are all set. Practice and you will get quite fast and
very accurate about making varied forms of wire that frankly, cannot
be purchased anywhere.
Fine silver bezels? How wide and how thick do you want? In 15
minutes you have a few feet of any size you could want, perfectly
straight with flat even edges.
How about S88 Sterling wire and sheet, tarnish resistant and
fire-scale free? Oh, they don’t sell that made up, sorry. But you can
make any size and amount of wire or sheet you need of the S88 with a
supply of fine silver coins and a bag of S88 alloy.
Yes, making your own custom wire takes time and some effort, but it
is absolutely the cheapest way to get your metal stock, and you can
custom-make exactly the shape and amount you need.
I don’t consider making wire a great effort. I consider it a basic
component of metalsmithing. The process of seeing the metal become
exactly what I have planned is incredibly satisfying to me. Every
custom fabrication job I do requires a different stock, it seems, and
I enjoy being able to absolutely control the stock I use in my work.
I’m looking at the idea of teaching one or two day workshops in the
U.S. and other locales, and would enjoy talking with a group who
would like to learn how to make wire stock, from the mild to the
wild. Please contact me off-line, and we can talk about the
specifics.
—Jay Whaley UCSD Craft Center
Usually rolling your own sheet is a complete waste of time, but, in
our shop we are equipped to roll up to 5BD" square by 2gauge. Over
the
years we have rolled thousands of ounces of silver and hundreds of
ounces of gold. The reason is for handwrought items with excessive
chasing, the forces in the metal necessitate cross rolled metal that
is no longer available (since the late seventies, early eighties).
Still today, we suffer thousands of dollars of lost labor because of
crystal growth problems in the metal from continuous casting. Stearn
Leach has been the most reliable source of quality metal for high
stress applications.
Daniel Culver
@Daniel_Culver
Daniel,
Where would be a good place to start to learn about the crystal
growth issues with the continuous cast material?
What do you produce that the crystal growth is an issue?
Bill Churlik
@Bill_Churlik
www.earthspeakarts.com
If you are doing sheet metal work, and need really good, clean, sheet, then buy it. As the one post said, "enclosed mold, Mill the surface", wgich is one reason commercial sheet is so nice, they are milling the ingots before rolling. They are also rolling wide sheets, and cutting off the edges. AND they have big-time foundry equipment.
Nobody is rolling from an ingot anymore, only continuous casting.
Daniel Culver