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Lets Get Yurman


#1

Here’s a cautionary tale about a similar situation. A friend of mine
does advertising work. She puts together brochures for vacation
rental property management companies. The brochure feature photos of
the properties, descriptions of the amentites, distance to the
beach, etc., etc. Each year she tries to make her rental property
brochures mildly creative with additional graphics and photos of
area scenery. One year, she found herself being sued by a law firm
representing Steven Spielberg because she had used an outline of a
hat in a graphic.The hat bore a faint resemblance to the one worn by
the lead character in the Indiana Jones movies. She wound up having
to pay $5000 to make this go away. Unbeknownst to the law firm who
claimed to be representing Mr. Spielberg, she and her husband had
worked in Hollywood and knew Spielberg socially. The law firm
basically spent their time trolling for these kinds of cases, hoping
to frighten people into paying up. Spielberg recieved nothing from
it, and told my friends that he and his attorneys didn’t even know
about it. Problem is, once someone files a suit of this kind, the
cost to hire an attorney and defend yourself is usually prohibitive
to small business people. So it’s easier to settle and make it go
away, like my friend had to do. And I am given to understand that
there are law firms that exist solely to do this kind of thing.

Peggy
It’s a beautiful day on the Outer Banks, where we are cleaning up
after a Noreaster brought us 110 mph winds for Thanksgiving!


#2
about Yurman's stealing an ancient technique, using it to
create a "body of work," getting it under a protective copyright,
and thereby creating a total monopoly on it, and hindering others
from doing anything that he claims infringes on his right to be the
only one to use this process. Anything that even remotely resembles
his work is register a trademark (Yurman's pieces aren't just
copyrighted, they are REGISTERED copyright). Once that happens, any
other judge is likely to just rubber stamp it. Precedent and all
that. I'd say that the piece IS an exact copy, even by accident,
you're sunk. I how can a person ever even BE permitted to
copyright something that isn't even original to begin with? David
Yurman has what is known as a Trade Dress Patent on his cable/stone
designs. It is a patent applied to a body of work whose signature
look has achieved recognition as belonging to a certain individual,
distinct from all others. It is not a design copyright for a single
piece, but for a larger, recognizable body of work. 

Baloney

    worked in Hollywood and knew Spielberg socially. The law firm
basically spent their time trolling for these kinds of cases,
hoping to frighten people into paying up. Spielberg recieved
nothing from away, like my friend had to do. And I am given to
understand that there are law firms that exist solely to do this
kind of thing. 

Fact! But BAR ASSOCIATIONS will NOT take any action against such
firms WITHOUT DOCUMENTED FORMAL COMPLAINTS! (They are lawyers, after
all!!!)

And yes, Virginia, Hanuman DOES censor without inserting or
tags—AND IF HE DOES IT ON THIS ONE I’LL SEND TO THE LIST THE PROOF
(or “maybe” he’s “recently” changed his policy or “occasionally” he
"forgets," it’s still censorship which he is ENTITLED to do since
it’s his list–and assuming sponsors condone it). He does it whenever
someone points out in clear terms (and in an isolated paragraph among
otherwise very valuable material) that an IA has spoken–and too many
do speak on this forum (witness the recent “acid” discussion). It’s
very easy to tell an I from an A from an IA, if YOU don’t know how you
shouldn’t even think about posting and YOU shouldn’t EVER use any of
what anyone says because you may, TO YOUR HARM, pick the IA’s
baloney.

An I occasionally (BUT RARELY) thinks they know more than they do
and posts a clear error. They happily and quickly apologize when it
is pointed out and they ALWAYS use solid verified reliable sourceS to
confirm their error before posting their retraction. An IA FREQUENTLY
posts BALONEY then follows-up any corrections with TONS MORE baloney.
A real, utter A posts a wide mix of valid and baloney and DOESN’T
CARE which is which then piles on heaps more whenever they are
questioned.

The internet and forums such as this will, over time, likely help
squeeze down the IAs and As to much more manageable levels than what
now exist in society BUT ONLY IF THE CENSORS QUIT censoring
the justifiably irate posts that point out IAs unambiguously. Even
the ignorant censors that cannot tell the difference will be weeded
out as new lists form to counter ignorant censorship…

I again encourage anyone and everyone to STUDY my www.idearights.com
web site regarding the distinctions between copyright, trademark, and
patent. (If you have questions or need clarifications, please ask.)
Those FACTS have been examined repeatedly by VERY IRATE LAWYERS
(whose ethics violations I have publicly lambasted) and no errors
have been found. Until you KNOW, and KNOW YOU KNOW, that stuff cold
you should not be posting ANYthing you THINK you know on the subject
to the forum.

If, and I have no doubt, Yurman has indeed not lost a COURT case it
is certainly because his attorneys carefully pick the ones, usually,
I suspect, blatant, they really should win. As far as his attorneys
doing unethical things, such as burning hours and going on fishing
expeditions, that too is undoubtedly a fact—but you MUST complain
FORMALLY to the people that can correct that, not to jewelers!

James E. White
Inventor, Marketer, and Author of “Will It Sell? How to Determine If
Your Invention Is Profitably Marketable (Before Wasting Money on a
Patent)” Info Sites: www.willitsell.com www.inventorhome.com,
www.idearights.com www.taletyano.com www.booksforinventors.com


#3
The internet and forums such as this will, over time, likely help
squeeze down the IAs and As to much more manageable levels than
what now exist in society BUT ONLY IF THE CENSORS ****QUIT****
censoring the justifiably irate posts that point out IAs
unambiguously. Even the ignorant censors that cannot tell the
difference will be weeded out as new lists form to counter ignorant
censorship... 

I have seen many of your posts over the last year or so and I never
have gotten the impression that your were censored for being honest
or even irate. You are probably censored only because you use such
inflammatory language as to publicly humiliate and degrade people who
post to the forum. Harassment is one thing the members on Orchid did
not sign up for. You have used IA and A in this post (whatever they
mean…because I don’t understand what they mean probably makes me
an A or something, but whatever dude) and this tactic of replacing
words with abbreviations was probably the only reason anyone saw your
post.

Personally, I think you may be shooting yourself in the foot half
the time. You always end posts with all of your websites where,
presumably, you are trying to sell something or give out info. The
last thing most people are going to do after all of the public
lambasting…is click one of your links. So, will it
sell?..probably a lot more if you went about it a little
differently.

As to Hanuman censoring anything. For the amount of ridiculously
degrading comments you have made to the posters, you would have
already been expelled from many other forums. Frankly, you should be
thankful you are allowed to speak at all on this one.

Bring it on
Kim


#4

Kimberly,

I do not blame James White for his inflammatory posts. I understand
that it can be cause for being censored or banned. Some of the
people who post are so ignorant or stupid that it does cause one to
want to berate them and humiliate them for posting garbage. It is
really hard to not attack someone sometimes, and I believe that as
that is what might happen if someone said garbage in person, the
internet makes it easier to humiliate someone because of the
anonymity. Some things that we would say to another with a differnet
tone to indicate how it is meant cannot be done in a post. I never
post something on the internet that I would not say in person. I can
usually get the point across as to what I think of a person without
calling them names. If someone is part of this forum and trying to
educate, and their are people posting opinions, rumors, third hand
misit can get very frustrating. I have had several
exchanges off-line, trying to be as nice as possible, and trying to
help someone understand why the forum is not a place for opinions
that are contrary to fact. My question would be, why are there, on
occasion, 1 or 2 posts with misfor each post that is
factual? If you watch tv, more inflammatory language, including
swearing, is being broadcast. This does mean it is appropriate, just
that it is happening. Every so often, someone posts something about
nickle in sterling. I wonder how or where this started. But I wonder,
if someone who has experience with making jewelry, and they use
sterling, why would they assume, make up, create, fantasize, invent
that sterling contains nickle. I have wanted to do what I understand
is inappropriate on a forum. STERING SILVER DOES NOT CONTAIN NICKLE.
TELL YOUR FRIENDS FAMILY AND ANYONE ELSE YOU KNOW. Has anyone tried
doing something that was posted on this forum and suffered a monetary
loss, even if it just reduced the metal to scrap? Because the forum
is anonymous, if someone posts something that is misor
something that results in actual monetary loss, whereas you can hold
someone accountable if it happens on the “outternet”, who is
accountable if it happens on the internet? I used to be politically
correct all the time and not tell a customer that the jeweler that
gave them misdid not know what they were talking about.
Now I say that what the jeweler said was stupid and they did not know
what they were talking about. 20 years of hearing the garbage other
jewelry sales peopl or jewelers say done wore out my patience with
stupid.

Richard Hart


#5

Did you know Yurman uses diffused “artificially colored” stones in
his jewelry?

A friend of mine is treating and selling artificially colored
(diffused) stones from Bangkok. I was really impressed with the new
purples, oranges and cobalt looking blues. They have been selling to
Yurman for many years.

Did you know Baily Banks and Biddle do the same? This is a Zales
corportation. Take a look on the back of the catalog divulging
treatments in fine print.

I’m not sure if the Yurman catalog states the type of diffusion his
stones undergo?

I don’t mind them selling diffused stones but the prices certainly
do not reflect the inferiority of such goods.

Warm Regards,
Ed Cleveland
www.kashmirblue.com


#6

Hi All;

As to Hanuman censoring anything. For the amount of ridiculously 

I know one thing Hanuman will censor, and that is a “flame war”. And
he’ll have my blessing if he does. Let’s see if we can keep this
thread relevant to the topic.

Hey, while we’re at it, here’s my 2 cents (again) on David Yurman.
He’s a market phenomenon, and the people who buy his jewelry are less
interested in progressive jewelry design than they are in brand
recognition. They get what they pay dearly for.

There are five types of jewelry customer;

consumers
conspicuous consumers
connoisseurs
collectors
bobos (Bohemian Bourgeoisie)

I like that last group, because they will spend a lot of money on a
piece of fine jewelry based on its unique design, quality of
materials and manufacture, and the je ne sais pas…call it "spirit"
if you like.

David L. Huffman


#7

I have to question to what degree is your issue with “artificially
colored” stones? I’m not being snarky–but with the fact that most
stones are treated to some degree, I don’t get quite what you are
pointing at.

Now, I do have issue if lab-created stones are portrayed as "real"
stones.

Miachelle


#8
Stering silver does not contain nickle. Tell your friends family
and anyone else you know. 

Not trying to start a thing here, Richard :-), but why couldn’t
sterling silver contain nickel? If sterling is defined as .925 parts
pure silver and .75 parts something else, why couldn’t the “something
else” be nickel instead of copper? Granted, it would have different
qualities and it wouldn’t be what we commonly think of as sterling
silver, but it would still meet the specs, right?

Beth


#9

First off, let me say I am the original poster of the “Twisted Wire
Bangles.” I am astonished at how this thread has evolved. I was only
seeking advice on technique and did not mean to create a monster.
But since it has turned into a copyright infringement topic, please
take look at the website below. I performed a search on Google using
the criteria “Yurman knockoff.” This site comes up as the third
listing on the FIRST page of Google. If Yurman’s attorneys were
trolling for this kind of stuff, why is it they can’t find this site?

http://www.overstockjeweler.com/dayuknstsitr.html

Cathy Flory


#10
I have to question to what degree is your issue with "artificially
colored" stones? I'm not being snarky--but with the fact that most
stones are treated to some degree, I don't get quite what you are
pointing at. 

Diffusion is technically another type of treatment but not
necessarily permanent. Most diffusion penetrates the surface and so
recutting or simple repolish may remove the color. Today through
hydrogen hydroxyl process the penetration seems to be deeper and 100%
in smaller stones.

The issue, if I had an issue, may be due to the fact that prices for
this material should not equal what natural stones do or simply heat
treated stones.

The purchase price on such diffused (artificially colored) stones is
$50- several hundred dollars per carat. The same looking heat treated
stones will be two or three times this price and natural color (no
heat) possibly two or three times this.

Otherwise, I don’t have an issue with the material itself. In fact,
I may begin selling larger pinks, purples, reds or blues.

I’ll toss up another related question to treatments. How about all
the colored diamonds we have seen in the past 15 years. The enormous
inventories of large intense and vivid yellows, matched pairs and
necklace suites? Where did they come from all of a sudden?

Regards,

Ed Cleveland
303-882-8855
www.kashmirblue.com