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Kunzite fade in any light


#1

I have 10,000+ cts of cut kunzite, I had them treated in corbalt 60,
they all turned green, (very pretty) however they fade in any light.
Can I get there pink color back any way?

Joseph M
PS This all hapen 15 years ago.


#2
I have 10,000+ cts of cut kunzite, I had them treated in corbalt
60, they all turned green, (very pretty) however they fade in any
light. Can I get there pink color back any way? 

This is a difficult question. Kunzite (Spodumene) color can be
improved with radiation, but it has to be of the neutron type (my
apologies to physics majors for the choice of words). Cobalt 60
becomes Nickel 60 and as by-product of the decay, Beta type
radiation is produced. Nickel 60 is high energy isotope in his own
right and it does emit Gamma (neutron) type radiation as a by-product
of it’s decay. Result of exposure to Cobalt 60, due to presence of
Beta particle, sometimes are less than predictable.

Spodumene heated to 500 Celsius should become colorless. Irradiating
afterwords, may or may not give you pink color. You may get brownish
or yellow tint, so subsequent heating to 150 Celsius could improve
the
color.

I am intentionally using “may” and “could” because this is more art
then science. Experiment with small sample first to determine the
actual reaction to the treatment.

Lack of stability of color cannot be helped except keeping stones
away from the Sun. Kunzite jewellery should be only worn at night. I
heard from someone that Japanese word for Kunzite is translated as
"evening flower".

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#3
Nickel 60 is high energy isotope in his own right and it does emit
Gamma (neutron) type radiation as a by- product of it's decay.
Result of exposure to Cobalt 60, due to presence of Beta particle,
sometimes are less than predictable. 

I don’t know anything about the art of radiation treatment of
However, I can tell you that while cobalt-60 does indeed
decay to the STABLE isotope nickel-60 and in the process of decay
the cobalt-60 emits one electron (beta radiation) with an energy of
up to 315 keV and then two gamma rays with energies of 1.17 and 1.33
MeV, respectively. there is not a neutron emitted in the process.
Nickel-60 is stable i.e. there is no decay so no radiation emitted
from it. Gamma and neutron radiation are totally different beasts.
Gamma radiation is a high energy electromagnetic wave like x-rays but
higher frequency. Neutrons are sub atomic particles. Like comparing
apples and oranges which are both fruits but different, gamma and
neutron are both forms of ionizing radiation but they have very
different properties and efects.

Jim

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#4
there is not a neutron emitted in the process. Nickel-60 is stable
i.e. there is no decay so no radiation emitted from it. Gamma and
neutron radiation are totally different beasts. Gamma radiation is
a high energy electromagnetic wave like x-rays but higher frequency. 

I agree with everything you said, but there is a nuance. As a product
of the decay, Nickel 60 is in exited state. It relaxes to lower
energy state by emitting excess of energy as a photon which is a
gamma particle. A stream of gamma particles constitutes neutron
radiation.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#5
I agree with everything you said, but there is a nuance. As a
product of the decay, Nickel 60 is in exited state. It relaxes to
lower energy state by emitting excess of energy as a photon which
is a gamma particle. A stream of gamma particles constitutes
neutron radiation. 

Nickel-60 is the end product of the radioactive decay of cobalt-60
and it is not an emitter of radiation it is stable. Gamma radiation
is a type of high energy photon emission (electromagnetic wave or
wavicle if you prefer) and is emitted during the decay of the
cobalt-60 along with a beta particle once this happens the cobalt-60
is been transmuted to nickel-60 and is now stable.

Neutrons are atomic nucleus particles (along with protons) and are
not emitted during the decay of the cobalt-60. To get neutron
radiation you need a higher energy gamma radiation (7-40 MEV) than is
produced in the decay of cobalt-60. Most natural neutron sources are
from the fission of isotopes of uranium, plutonium or thorium or
fusion of lighter elements isotopes of hydrogen, helium or beryllium.
Man made sources are linear accelerators or other high energy physics
devices. Neutrons are used to treat some they are
typically irradiated with neutrons in linear accelerators.

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#6
Nickel-60 is the end product of the radioactive decay of cobalt-60
and it is not an emitter of radiation it is stable. Gamma
radiation is a type of high energy photon emission (electromagnetic
wave or wavicle if you prefer) and is emitted during the decay of
the cobalt-60 along with a beta particle once this happens the
cobalt-60 is been transmuted to nickel-60 and is now stable. 

If I understood the gist of your objection, it is me defining photon
emission resulting from Nickel 60 relaxing into lower energy state.
Well, that what it is. Photon is a Gamma particle and stream of
Gamma particles is a neutron radiation. There is nothing that I can
add to it.

Here are some definitions as it used currently:

Photon–colloquially, a “particle of light.” Although light spreads
as an electromagnetic wave, it can be created or absorbed only in
discrete amounts of energy, known as photons. The energy of photons
increases, the shorter the wavelength–smallest for radio waves,
larger for visible light, largest for x-rays and gamma rays.

Gamma rays–electromagnetic waves of the highest frequencies known,
originally discovered as an emission of radioactive substances.

Neutron Radiation–is a term used to talk about energy being
released from atoms that have too much energy for one reason or
another. Radiation is in the form of energetic particles or
electromagnetic waves.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#7

Leonid,

please give your source for the definition of "neutron radiation."
this is in disagreement with what i was taught in nuclear and radio
chemistry courses during one of my stints in graduate school
(geochemistry, in particular geochronology using thermal neutrons to
produce fission tracks).

Thank you,

John
John Atwell Rasmussen
Rasmussen Gems and Jewelry
www.rasmussengems.com


#8
If I understood the gist of your objection, it is me defining
photon emission resulting from Nickel 60 relaxing into lower energy
state. Well, that what it is. Photon is a Gamma particle and stream
of Gamma particles is a neutron radiation. There is nothing that I
can add to it. 

My problem with your statements is that they are wrong. First
nickel-60 is the end state of the radioactive decay of cobalt-60.
Nickel-60 itself has no radioactive emissions period. The cobalt-60
is the radioactive isotope, once it decays( by emitting radiation)
to nickel-60 which it is not radioactive so to say the nickel-60 is
in an excited state and then drops to a lower energy state state by
emitting gamma radiation is incorrect.

For a basic description see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt-60

Second gamma and neutron radiation are two distinct separate types
of radioactive emissions you insist on saying that gamma radiation is
neutron radiation and this is like saying that black is white.

Neutron radiation is extremely high energy radiation and is only
released by nuclear fission or fusion reactions, very high energy
physics apparatus like liner accelerators or the decay of heavy
transuranic isotopes( U-235, Cf-252 Pu-239) or isotopes of very
light elements (He-5, Be-13) not he intermediate weight radioactive
isotopes like cobalt-60.

For a basic explanation see


James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#9
please give your source for the definition of "neutron radiation."
this is in disagreement with what i was taught in nuclear and
radio chemistry courses during one of my stints in graduate school 

The definition I use is:

Neutron Radiation–is a term used to talk about energy being
released from atoms that have too much energy for one reason or
another. Radiation is in the form of energetic particles or
electromagnetic waves.

Maybe I could answer your question better if you would elaborate how
this definition is different from yours.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#10
My problem with your statements is that they are wrong. First
nickel-60 is the end state of the radioactive decay of cobalt-60. 

I will do it step-by-step:

Cobalt 60 emits beta particles and gamma rays. This is not in
dispute. Cobalt 60 nucleus contains 27 protons and 33 neutrons. This
is also not in dispute. Since it is not stable configuration, one
neutron changes to proton and one electron emitted ( aka beta
radiation ). Result is Nickel 60 with nucleus composed of 32 neutrons
and 28 protons. If what you are saying is true, then where is the
gamma rays come from?

Nickel-60 itself has no radioactive emissions period. 

I never said that Nickel 60 has “radioactive emission period”.
Relaxation into lower energy state is not radioactive emission period
in the context of radioactive decay.

For a basic description see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt-60 

wikipedia is not the source that I would use as a reference on the
subject.

Second gamma and neutron radiation are two distinct separate types
of radioactive emissions you insist on saying that gamma radiation
is neutron radiation and this is like saying that black is white. 

Gamma rays are pulses of electromagnetic energy. Visible light,
radio waves, microwaves are all correctly classified as gamma rays. I
refer you to the work of James Clerk Maxwell for more details.

In context of radioactive decay, there are only 3 types of radiation:
alpha, beta, and gamma. Neutron radiation in this context does not
exist. It is not a scientific term, it is a colloquial term to
describe energy resulting from the change in energy state(s). The
distinction that you are making is a breathtakingly nonsensical.

Neutron radiation is extremely high energy radiation and is only
released by nuclear fission or fusion reactions, very high energy
physics apparatus like liner accelerators or the decay of heavy
transuranic isotopes( U-235, Cf-252 Pu-239) or isotopes of very
light elements (He-5, Be-13) not he intermediate weight
radioactive isotopes like cobalt-60. 

To avoid repetition I refer you to the explanation above.

For a basic explanation see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_radiation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_radiation

wikipedia is a great source to look up pasta sauce recipes. I would
not use it for anything else.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#11

A man must be big enough to admit his mistakes, smart enough to
profit from them, and strong enough to correct them.


#12
please give your source for the definition of "neutron radiation."
this is in disagreement with what i was taught in nuclear and
radio chemistry courses during one of my stints in graduate school 

I’d steer interested parties to any of the excellent popular books
by Richard Phillips Feynman…

http://www.donivanandmaggiora.com


#13

neutrons are particles emitted from the nucleus of an atom during
radioactive decay/reactions. They have 1 amu (approximately) and are
not in any form electromagnetic waves. therefore unless the neutrons
from the nucleus are being emitted from the atom, the radiation
being measured/perceived can not be neutrons.

john
John Atwell Rasmussen
Rasmussen Gems and Jewelry
www.rasmussengems.com


#14

Leonid,

FWIW

I spent 9 years living within 100 feet of a nuclear reactor on a
submarine. One of the requirements for being a submarine sailor is
being qualified in submarines is to learn and demonstrate basic
working knowledge of all the systems on board including the reactor.
I qualified in 1978. You would need to go back and do some more study
to pass your qualification questions on radiation.

A few simple web searches will define all four types of emissions
from radioactive decay for you. Wikipedia was offered as an easy to
access and understand source. If you find any errors in those
articles feel free to edit them and see how your criticism stands up
to the scrutiny of the folks who authored and monitor those pages.

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#15
Photon is a Gamma particle and stream of Gamma particles is a
neutron radiation. 

A Photon is the Particulate of Light, and therefore is only a part
of Light Emission (until they discover that it is also part of
gravity[?]).

TL Goodwin
thepacifikimage.com


#16
neutrons are particles emitted from the nucleus of an atom during
radioactive decay/reactions. They have 1 amu (approximately) and
are not in any form electromagnetic waves. therefore unless the
neutrons from the nucleus are being emitted from the atom, the
radiation being measured/perceived can not be neutrons.

John’s statement is absolutely correct ! The key part is

therefore unless the neutrons from the nucleus are being emitted
from the atom 

I received quite a number of emails privately and it was amused to
read all the suggestions to educate myself, to read the books and
etc. John is the only one who considered other possibilities.

Original post was about treatment of Kunzite with Cobalt 60. In my
response I did made a note that thr language would not be as precise,
as it would be required on a test. Somehow, it fell on deaf ears.

Let me elaborate on John statement. Cobalt 60 treatment facilities
are using metal tubes, called pencils, to contain Cobalt 60. Cobalt
60
emits 1 beta particle and 2 gamma rays. High energy electrons passing
through metal sometimes can induce x-rays. This is called braking
radiation. A note to James Binnion to update his list of radiation
types. Some of these x-rays will interact with nucleus and make it
radioactive. The free neutron released during reaction can interact
with another nucleus and etc.

The key to all of that should have been the original post with
stated that Kunzite turned green. Kunzite exposed to purely gamma ray
would either intensify in color or would become colorless. It takes
neutron radiation to turn Kunzite green. Somehow all GG(s), who wrote
to me, missed that point.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#17

Dear Leonid

Original post was about treatment of Kunzite with Cobalt 60.
In my response I did made a note that thr language would not be as
precise, as it would be required on a test. Somehow, it fell on
deaf ears. 

Here are some of statements you made in the process of this thread.
could you please verify them by true of false?

Nickel 60 is high energy isotope in his own right and it does emit
Gamma (neutron) type radiation as a by-product of it's decay. 

True or False?

Nickel 60 is in exited state. It relaxes to lower energy state by
emitting excess of energy as a photon which is a gamma particle. 

True or False?

Photon is a Gamma particle and stream of Gamma particles is a
neutron radiation. 

True or False?

Neutron Radiation--is a term used to talk about energy being
released from atoms that have too much energy for one reason or
another. Radiation is in the form of energetic particles or
electromagnetic waves. 

True or False?

What I am really after is a true/false explanation of your own words
and not additional statements or explanations.

Thanks
Marky


#18

Leonid,

Your original statement that has lead to many responses which have
tried in very basic language to describe an extremely complex
subject of atomic decay that most of us myself included are truly not
qualified to argue in depth.

However your statements below that gamma radiation is neutron
radiation and that nickel-60 is radioactive which started this
thread is still totally incorrect and all your replies to the
contrary will not change that.

Cobalt 60 becomes Nickel 60 and as by-product of the decay, Beta
type radiation is produced. Nickel 60 is high energy isotope in his
own right and it does emit Gamma (neutron) type radiation as a by-
product of it's decay. 

I am glad you are doing some reading and finding out about things
like bremsstrahlung (to brake) radiation. But again the gamma
radiation that causes secondary radiation via bremsstrahlung
generates x-rays if the energy of the collision is high enough. It
does not split an atom and eject a free neutron nor does the nucleus
of cobalt-60 have any extra neutrons than will spontaneously emit.
And nickel-60 is still stable.

This horse is so dead it is decayed

Jim

James Binnion
@James_Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


360-756-6550


#19

I know that this was not meant for me, but what the?

Nickel 60 is high energy isotope in his own right and it does emit
Gamma (neutron) type radiation as a by-product of it's decay. True
or False? 
  1. Nickel 60 is a stable element and not an isotope. So, False
Nickel 60 is in exited state. It relaxes to lower energy state by
emitting excess of energy as a photon which is a gamma particle.
True or False? 
  1. Nickel 60 again is a stable element and not an isotope. Gamma is
    a high energy electromagnetic ray not a particle like a neutron.
    Again False.
Photon is a Gamma particle and stream of Gamma particles is a
neutron radiation. True or False? 
  1. A Gamma ray is a photon of high energy electromagnetic radiation.
    A neutron is a particle from the nucleus of an atom which has a
    neutral electrical charge and is only emitted under a nuclear
    reaction. There are high speed neutrons and thermal neutrons, the
    latter being the most ionizing. False Again.
Neutron Radiation--is a term used to talk about energy being
released from atoms that have too much energy for one reason or
another. Radiation is in the form of energetic particles or
electromagnetic waves. True or False? 
  1. Nuclear radiation comes in four different forms all originating
    from the nucleus of an unstable atom or isotope. Alpha is a particle
    consisting of 2 protons and 2 neutrons. It ionizes by way of
    stripping electrons from the surrounding atoms. Beta is a high speed
    electron that acts like a bullet. Gamma is a high energy
    electromagnetic wave or ray that acts like a bullet or causes atoms
    to resonate causing a disturbance. Finally Neutron radiation is a
    neutron that has been dislodged from the nucleus of the atom caused
    by a reaction not normal decay. The high speed neutrons act like a
    bullets until they slow down and become thermal neutrons. The
    thermal or slow neutrons cause the most ionization as the try to form
    with other neutrons and cause an imbalance. False

I hope I have not stated any of the above incorrectly.

Ken Moore
2901 Pleasant Acres Drive
Fort Collins, CO 80524
970 493-6971
www.kenworx.com


#20
I did made a note that thr language would not be as precise, as it
would be required on a test. Somehow, it fell on deaf ears. 

Leonid, it may be that your language was just a bit too imprecise.
In some of your past posts, one part of a post seems to contradict
another part. I’m guessing you may have needed another cup of coffee
or something.

Which, can be heated in the gamma ray oven that apparently, many of
us have in the kitchen…

to quote from your 7/1 posting:

Gamma rays are pulses of electromagnetic energy. Visible light,
radio waves, microwaves are all correctly classified as gamma
rays. 

Imprecise is one thing. Calling any electromagnetic radiation
(photons) gamma rays ignores the whole “energy level” or “electron
volts” thing. That’s more than just imprecise, sir. I’m pretty sure
my microwave oven is not cooking things with gamma rays. Nor are the
photons coming at my from my computer screen considered gamma
rays…

And then theres this:

Neutron Radiation--is a term used to talk about energy being
released from atoms that have too much energy for one reason or
another. Radiation is in the form of energetic particles or
electromagnetic waves. 

According to this, virtually any radiation being released from an
atom, no matter what the particles, energy level, or whatever, would
be called neutron radiation. A bit broad, don’t you think? Most of
the rest of the physics world would say neutron radiation consists
of, guess what: actual free neutrons. Those puppies are the
electrically neutral particles that, along with protons, make up the
nucleus of atoms. It’s not just any energy, or waves or any sort of
energetic particles. It’s neutrons. The last time I heard, neutrons
are emitted from atoms only when the atoms are changing their actual
identity, such as from one isotope to another, or the nucleus splits
into two new elements, etc. It’s not just an atom getting rid of a
bit of excess energy. If an atom loose one or more neutrons from it’s
nucleus, it’s no longer the same type of atom. I seem to dimly recall
that one very famous example of emitted neutron radiation is in the
chain reaction mechanism that powers nuclear weapons and reactors.
It’s the emitted neutrons from radioactive decay that triggers other
atoms nearby to also decay…

But hey. Maybe I’ve got it confused. Perhaps this is only what
powers that oven I’ve got in the kitchen. If so, I’m sure you’ll
enlighten us.

cheers
Peter