Kees Engelbarts, artisan watches

Jewelry Discussion
1

Check this link out for some seriously excellent work.

hans meevis
http://www.meevis.com

2

That is very cool, thanks for posting that Hans. I would think it
would be easier to carve the dragon in wax and cast it, rather than
engraving and carving it in gold. I guess it comes down to which the
metalsmith is more comfortable with. That was great to see.

Mark

3 
I would think it would be easier to carve the dragon in wax and
cast it, rather than engraving and carving it in gold. I guess it
comes down to which the metalsmith is more comfortable with.

It would never have the crispness of line if it were cast unless it
were engraved afterwards. Even then the likelihood of porosity
showing up and ruining the surface finish would be high.

Jim

James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts

4 
It would never have the crispness of line if it were cast unless
it were engraved afterwards. Even then the likelihood of porosity
showing up and ruining the surface finish would be high.

Not only that, but “easier” isn’t always best. In this case, the
need to take time and great care in piercing and engraving the pieces
means that he’s more likely to get every last detail just as he
wishes. When an attempt is made to prefer methods that are easier or
quicker, the result can often show the reduced time and effort… For
work like this, you want it to look laborious, painstaking, and
exacting…

Peter

5

I agree with you Jim. On an item of this quality the freshness of the
engraving and carving is so important. A cast finish would not be the
same even when when cleaned up. Also this is a bit like a fine
painting every graver cut is like a brush stroke which would be lost
through the casting process. Just look at the standard of the
engraved letters round the bezel.

6

Peter said… Not only that, but “easier” isn’t always best.

But sometimes easier is equivalent. I’m not being at all critical of
the work, just talking shop. I think I would carve the dragon in wax
and cut much of the detail in the wax with the same gravers I would
use if hand engraving in metal, then cast it and then go back over
the whole thing to complete the hand engraving in the cast piece. I
think the results would be as good and crisp either way and the wax
first method would take less time. James mentioned pits in the
casting but that would just not be acceptable, as unacceptable as
slipping with a graver and cutting an unsightly groove across your
dragon if using the purely hand engraved method. It could be screwed
up either way or done equally beautifully either way.

IMHO Mark

PS I apologize for my posts losing there format. I send them in nice
paragraphs, but they are posted all squished together somehow losing
the paragraph in transit. It happened after I upgraded my Yahoo biz
e-mail?

7 
I agree with you Jim. On an item of this quality the freshness of
the engraving and carving is so important. A cast finish would not
be the same even when when cleaned up.

Kees work is always an example of the finest handcraft possible.

James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts

8 
Not only that, but "easier" isn't always best. In this case, the
need to take time and great care in piercing and engraving the
pieces means that he's more likely to get every last detail just as
he wishes. When an attempt is made to prefer methods that are
easier or quicker, the result can often show the reduced time and
effort... For work like this, you want it to look laborious,
painstaking, and exacting...

Exactly :slight_smile:

James Binnion

9 
But sometimes easier is equivalent. I'm not being at all critical
of the work, just talking shop.

I hear you Mark.

Problem is, the scale of the engraving in his watches is very small
and immensely labor intensive.

So, if one spends say 100 hours on an engraving, there is no way
that you would take even a small chance the there is a hidden bit of
porosity or flaw in your metal.

And carving and casting a wax on such a small scale does not
actually save any time, nor is it much easier.

And there is always a chance of a miss cast.

Carving directly into good metal stock one is certain that the
result will be determined by your skills and your skills alone. The
danger of bad metal is removed. I am just finishing up a piece this
weekend which has taken about 230 hours of work, and even though my
skills are no where near Mr. Engelbaart’s, I fabricated straight into
metal for the same reason.

I love casting, and it definitely has it’s place, but.at his level
of work there to many uncertainties with the process.

Cheers, Hans
http://www.meevis.com

10

Hans said…And carving and casting a wax on such a small scale does
not actually save any time, nor is it much easier. That makes a lot
of sense Hans, I wasn’t thinking about the scale as the image was so
big on my screen. I do a fair amount of hand engraved detail in my
work, both fabricated and cast. My thinking was that when I have
made dragons or lizards in the past, I like to carve them in wax
because I tend to get more relief and so a better three dimensional
finished appearance. Anyway, thanks again for posting that image.

Mark