India among lowest cost producers of jewelry

Jewelry Discussion
41

Dear Raji (sangeetha),

Most of the production workers who are working in SEEPZS Mumbai are
living in slums.

I have seen girls working in seeppz in wax injection department or
wax setting department are malnutritional, what they are getting are
not enough to feed for themselves or their family. with a salary of
Rs 3000.00 per month what do you expect, during season they work
from morning 9 to evening 9.

How much employment oppurtunity does this Diamond jewellery industry
in Seepz Mumbai provide. Considering 200 jewellery manufacturing
units in seepzs and each of them on an everage employing 500
workers, the sum comes to one hundred thousand workers.

The population of Mumbai is approximately Ten million and of India
100 million.

There are many In Seepzs, are on Orchid list but are keeping quite,
some of them are Owners, and others managers or supervisors. No body
has courage to speek the truth are they not are all part of
expolitation racket?

I think it is the same all over the world, Mumbai Seepzs is only an
example, Production workers in all the Industries are exloited and
few Industrialist or Enterpuners are the beneficiary of their
sweat money.

Do we expect that there will be a revolution like French Revolution
in the human history again, against the Industrialists who are like
the Kings and Queens in this modern world of 21st century…

May God bless us all with Total Health - Physical, Mental, Spritual
and Social

Friend
Umesh

42

Hello All

I agree with Raji,

That outsourcing has less to do with Indian/Chinese/Thail people and
more to do we our people, our giant companies, our chain stores who,
for their own benefit import and source from the third world, to
have more margins, in their pockets, why would a manufacturer say no
if some one is there to buy at his selling price?!?!?!?!? Its us or
someone amongst who wants to earn the maximum and they are not only
the Jewelry Importers but the larger of them are: Textile - Cloth
importers, Leather shoe importers and food importers!

Interestingly companies like Pepsi and Coke which are considered not
as Importers in India but as multinationals have removed several
small beverage players in the Indian market! our huge multinational
companies have already wounded the dwarfs in the thrid world, infact
we are still in better shape! The Thai and Indian government have
still kept a high import duty barrier to protect heir small
industries to save from the American and other mulitnational
companies!

Regards
Emily

43 
Now that you are back in the fray, I continue to find that your
logic and dialogue stretch the imagination

I thought that what we were aiming at was a civil discussion.

When you suggest that manufacurers in the Los Angeles jewelry
district charge such miniscule prices for manufacturing procedures
I can't help but interprete your inference as being suggestive that
American manufacturers are running sweat shops designed to compete
with those we have inferred about third world countries.

Gerry reported the prices quoted him for gem setting by a factory in
LA, he did not make any blanket statements about manufacturers in the
Los Angeles jewelry district. I would submit that you are drawing the
inferrences from Gerry’s statements, and as such, you should own
them.

The point of Gerry’s statements may be that at least one factory in
the LA area is apparently operating as a sweatshop and abusing
minimum wage laws, possibly by hiring undocumented workers who
because of their compromised legal status are the easiest to exploit.
This is not fair or acceptable competition; we have laws regarding
such things. Those who find themselves aware of and affected by such
situations need not to compete with them so much as blow the whistle
on them.

The thing is, in this country we concluded long ago that things like
minimum wage laws, child labor laws, health and safety regulations,
etc, are in the interest of justice and benefit our society as a
whole. Those who seek to circumvent these laws not only do injury and
injustice to those they employ, they negatively impact all of us.

Lee Einer
Dos Manos Jewelry
http://www.dosmanosjewelry.com

44

People wanting the best for their families is normal and OK, it’s
when a company lays off 25,000 people in the USA and moves their
operation to India that it becomes a problem.

We have not been ‘stealing’ brainpower, companies have been using
H1B visa’s to pull in smart people they can under pay and get rid of
american workers.

If anyone doesn’t think this is about companies making more money
for their shareholders or owners then they are nuts. It has nothing
to do with helping other countries, or globalization, it’s about
getting rich, period and it sounds like it hurts everyone.

I for one would like to hear more about life in India and what a
normal ‘life style’ is like.

Craig

45

Hi,

I don’t know if this will get filtered out, all of my others have
been filtered out on this topic (thus I cc the originator of the
msg).

The fact is that developing economies have highly qualified people
who can better compete in the world economy....and, we have to
adjust to the fact that we are now a part of the world economy

I’m not sure whose cut stones you are looking at but I have yet to
see a stone cut overseas that can stand up to a side by side
comparison of an american cut stone. I have seen and compared my
stones to many foreign and the differences are obvious. Look at my
web page if you want examples -

http://www.creativecutgems.com/comcut.asp

Craig
www.creativecutgems.com

46

Hi Lee,

Why not have a second devoted to social issues in jewelry, where
those who wish to explore the topic can, and those who are offput
by the concept can simply not subscribe?

What you say makes sense except for a couple of practical points.
First, I for one really don’t need yet another mailing list to
subscribe to; yet I enjoy reading selected posts from just about
every thread, including those which raise social and/or political
issues. Having these discussions on Orchid is fine with me because it
allows me to pick and choose which posts on any particular thread I
want to skip, skim or read thoroughly.

If a discussion gets to a point where Hanuman feels it’s
inappropriate for this forum, I assume that’s because it has
degenerated into a flame war or is so far off topic that it really
doesn’t belong here. In either case, I don’t see any need for another
Ganoksin-hosted mailing list when such discussions can easily be
taken to direct email by any of the participants who wish to stay
involved.

Respectfully,
Beth

47

I know I should stay out of this one but… well, I’m sure you know
the rest.

One of the contributors to this thread expressed disbelief that US$40
a week was a fair wage for anyone, no matter where in the world they
lived. Three words: it’s all relative.

About 10 years ago I fantasized about moving to India. A friend of
mine there explained that I could live on about US$2 per day, rent a
decent house for about US$20 a month and retire the day I arrived, in
comfort, on US$100,000. The point being that you can’t judge a
foreign economy by your local standards.

It is the local cost of living, not your cost of living, that
determines whether a given wage there is good, bad or otherwise.

Cheers,
Trevor F.
in The City of Light
Visit TouchMetal.com at http://www.touchmetal.com

48

Raji

(who will be celebrating her 7th wedding anniversary in a couple
months…)

Wow, your post blew me away Raji. Much food for thought. I feel
worse about the bigotry you have encountered here than the low wage
subject of these posts, if only because that is something EVERY
American can do something about. I’m glad you have great friends, and
a great husband. Congratulations on the anniversary and I wish you
every happiness.

Kerry
(Who will be celebrating 27 years in May, so tell the folks back home there
really ARE long lasting marriages here!) :slight_smile:

49

Hello Umesh,

There are unscrupulous people everywhere and I think you have been
taken advantage of by one of them. You are to commended for your
generosity in regarding this oaf as someone who needs help… I
think he needs something more severe. My apologies for your
mistreatment, and I hope your kind nature survives this experience.

Judy in Kansas

50

I do not recognize the country I live in from the posts Ron and
Gerry are circulating.

The minimum wage in the UK, if I calculate dollar to dollar is
greater in the UK.

Umesh, I find your posts open and enlightening. I find your calling
"Mr. Gentleman" is delicate rather than fitting.

My 30 year work career took me all around the world, definitely not
only into “tourist” areas. Over my years on Orchid, I have had to
clarify some misinterpretations. It is far too easy to throw out
expressions, child labor, forced labor, desperate work conditions,
to name a few.

Boycotts have been encouraged with no thought whatsoever of what
would then happen to the miner and his family.

Our culture has always been an amalgam of many cultures. For the
most part, we as most humans around the world are decent hard working
individuals. It is very easy to blame others when tides turn a bit.

We are not turned out to pasture when reaching a certain age, there
are opportunities for the taking, yes even a Greeter at WalMart.

Produce is imported giving us out of season choices. Farmers Markets
abound in many communities where loyalty to a local farmer brings
wonderful and often organic choices.

I refuse to allow my country to be painted with a black brush. Why
are so many so willing to do so? This is still a country offering
great opportunity to all, we do not need to be born into a certain
level to achieve. Just need to work a bit at what is out there
education wise.

The rest of the world does not have to follow our path, most
cultures are far older than ours. Of course there is bad out there,
there is bad here too.

Charlatans, thieves, liars, they are there from biblical times, we
just know far more courtesy of the media. No one has a lock on them.

Look for the good around us, here in the US, and out there
everywhere. Please, be kind.

Terrie

51

All, I would like to change the name of this thread to the above as
it is unfair to anyone country to be singled out.

Ron,

My post was not to make any one point. It was to say to a fellow
human involved in the jewelry, trade that all is not well in the USA
either. I want more responses from people other than people in the
USA. Sharing with them my experiences and observations is a way to
start a civil dialog. My own hope is to make enough acquaintances so
that when I go to another country to do business I will have an
established relationship with as many people as possible in that
country.

About competition: Humans have made many laws attempting to control
the flow of commerce so that people in their jurisdiction can have a
better chance to obtain a good quality of life. These laws have lead
to wars and bitter hatred between populations. I would like to
minimize the effect of large corporations and individuals that want
to exploit people. At least in the realm that I have some control
over, I want to feel that the people I am dealing with are taking
care of the people that produce their products. I will take care of
the people that work with me. Commerce to me is not just the
accumulation of wealth in currency. Commerce is an experience in
people and places that I want to see and welcome when they visit me
with an open heart and intentions to make this world smaller and less
separate. I want to agree with them more than disagree. Maybe even
find a true peace.

Gerry Galarneau

52

Ian,

You have raised some very cogent issues with respect to our consumer
society. And, carrying the issue just a bit further, how in hell are
we going to sustain a consumer economy when the average consumer is
having to deal with progressively less disposable income? The
American economy is in a downward spiral and yet, throughout recent
history, it has been underpinned by baublemania. Most of the junk we
have come to believe as being necessities has been the mainstay of
our economy. Meanwhile, American workers are being let go by the tens
of thousands, full time workers are being supplanted by temps who
get no bennies and people who had careers now flip hamburgers. How
long will it be before people start losing their homes to foreclosure
? Meanwhile the fat cats in Washington and the corpocracy are buying
villas in France. ( Is it any wonder that, according to a survey
released yesterday, eighty eight percent of Americans believe that
the American government is massively corrupt !) Our government of
lawyers is often characterised as being for sale to the highest
bidders…All governments have some elements of corruption;it
is just a matter of degree. When it becomes rampant, it is just a
matter of time…

As an older person I fervently wish that we could offshore our
pharmaceutical needs. The medical establishment in America is
outrageously predatory. My doctor prescribed a drug for me that costs
over a hundred dollars per month. I did a bit of research and
discovered that the doctors medicine was a plant derivative that is
widely available as an alternative medicine…it costs five
dollars per month and performs the exact same task !

Ron Mills, Mills Gem Co. Los Osos, Ca.

53 
What makes you think that people in India would want the objects
you consider so necessary to live?

I can’t say for sure that they do, but that still doesn’t justify
wages that are substandard. Besides what justifies the use of child
labor? Apparently it is necessary in order for many people just to
survive. Because simply surviving is common in many of these
countries, and because it is the only existence these people know,
does not make it right.

I grant that the working conditions in parts of India are not up
to our sanitized standards but they provide very necessary services
for the rest of the world.

So because they provide necessary services the working conditions
should be subpar? I’m not denying the fact that many of our products
are produced in countries where people are far more willing to do
jobs that the western world deems beneath them, but that’s all the
more reason to offer better compensation and working conditions.

I think that, rather than condemning the abaility of other
countries to produce goods at a fraction of the price of our home
society,

Nowhere have I condemned anyone for producing products cheaper than
anyone else. I couldn’t care less who makes what for any price. I
have consistently held on this forum that if you are being undersold
it is because you aren’t being creative enough in your own business.
My condemnation is for people in so many countries being underpaid
and exploited by both their own managers and bosses and companies
like Wal-Mart that forces companies to continually push down on
workers wages.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
@Daniel_R_Spirer

54

Thank you to Raji for her insights. We all face problems with
competition and globalization and we should not jump to conclusions
based on our own experience. Change is inevitable and we all have to
learn to deal with it. If you look at American history, we also had
periods of long, hard work for very low wages–by present
standards–and child labor that helped families survive and get
ahead. Things changed with rising incomes produced by a growing and
increasingly efficient economy. And as income rose, expectations and
standards rose. These things will happen in the rest of the world if
competition and free trade are allowed to continue. That being said,
the effect on individuals can be harsh. We must all focus on what we
can do best and not be afraid to change. To Western artists, we must
focus on the art of what we do and sell unique design as our
competitive factor. Also, for cutters, setters, etc., there are
disadvantages to outsourcing overseas–long lead times, unreliable
suppliers, lack of predictability in quality and these things can
work to your advantage. Probably not however, on lower end products.
Move upscale and charge accordingly.

Just my two cents.
Linda

55 
more to do we our people, our giant companies, our chain stores
who, for their own benefit import and source from the third world,
to have more margins, in their pockets,

With respect,

We all (in the U.S.) still shop at Walmart. We complain as we do
about the unfairness of it all, but when I see a product at Radio
Shack for $100.00 and at Walmart (right next store) for 78.00…I go
for the 78.00. We have a free market economy. I know, some are going
to reply in regards to the (at times) unscrupulous selling techniques
of Walmart. I’m anticipating that.

Umesh, humbly, there is nothing I can say to take away the wrong
that has been given to you. You have come up against a man (Mr.
Jeweler) who is not fit to be called human or humane. Believe me, I
am not patronizing you when I say that I am sorry.

I would like to know what we can do more than what we think about
the wrongs of the World. What can we do?

Another poster today has said (approximately) “I can treat those who
work with me well”…I can do this too. I try to live with honor. I
try to treat others fairly. So far, these practices have brought me
much good fortune and opportunities (thankfully). If there is
something else I can do, tell me. I would like to attempt to give to
others as much as I have received. Believe me, I do not mean to look
down on anyone when I say these things. Please know that I am talking
from the heart.

Best Regards,
Kim Starbard
Cove Beads

56

Dear Terry,

The biggest problem with optimism is that it can lean toward being
pollyanish. If you ignore disturbing trends you might be in denial.
There is nothing at all wrong with examining things that seem to be
counterproductive. It is human nature to blunder when meaning well.
There is no hope at all for a culture that sees only certain
viewpoints…all dimensions need examination and we all have to
examine our own viewpoints and try to come up with a balanced
interpretation of reality.

Ron Mills at Mills Gem Co. Los Osos, Ca. C.C. Dos Manos

57

Raji,

That was a very good post.

I have lived in the US for 10 years and I found that there are
misconceptions on both sides. Therefore, when such discussions take
place I usually roll my eyes, let out a tired sigh and keep away.
But, I can’t help applauding your post. Very succinct and touching!

Also, congratulations on your 7th wedding anniversary. You’ve proved
my point of view once again, i.e., all American marriages don’t end
in divorce and all Indian marriages are not a bed of roses!

Thanks once again for providing a balanced point of view.

Take Care!

Rasesh
RJC-Associates
Mumbai, India.

58

I am very glad to see this thread being allowed on Orchid. However,
in my experience, Hanuman rarely deep-sixes a discussion that (1) is
specifically related to jewelry, and (2) stays specific.

The problem with staying specific is that the jewelry “industry” and
its “issues” happen in a context. They exist within a broader system
and a broader history–in this particular case, we could, for one
example, relate them to the history of colonialism and
post-colonialism. Without actually examining the larger context, the
most we can do is commiserate with each other–or argue with each
other. If we want to organize, truly study these issues, and find
solutions, we will have to do it someplace else.

Not that I know where that might be (Lee’s proposed separate
forum?). Or that I currently have the energy for such an enterprise
myself.

Lisa Orlando
on the Mendocino Coast, recovering from fatigue (acute, I hope)…

59 
If you look at American history, we also had periods of long, hard
work for very low wages--by present standards--and child labor that
helped families survive and get ahead.

With all due respect, Linda, I think that this is a bit of
revisionist history regarding child labor in the US.

While allowing their children to work in factories was indeed a
desperation tactic by families who were struggling to survive
economically, it tended to work against them, as the lower-paid
children often displaced the jobs of the adults. Moreover, child
labor did not enable families to “get ahead” even in the long run, as
the children who were working up to 19 hours a day in the factories
were doing that instead of learning how to read, write, etc, thus
compromising their later ability to climb the socio-economic ladder.

This is not a different phenomenon than that being played out in
sweatshops in third-world countries. If it was bad here, it is bad
there.

Lee Einer
Dos Manos Jewelry
http://www.dosmanosjewelry.com

60 
We all (in the U.S.) still shop at Walmart.

Speak for yourself. I always shop local and with retailers like
myself who are more concerned with service and the local economy than
with price. As a matter of fact service is the single most important
factor for me in a shopping experience. Which is why I offer that
attitude in my own shop.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140
@Daniel_R_Spirer