How do you shut down your tanks

Jewelry Discussion
21 
Consider moving to a more unpleasant climate in the interests of
safety.

Jeff’s humor is to the point, but it’s not really that simple,
either. And as Jim Binnion said, these things are more about
maintenance than safety - well, a bit of both, likely.

I think that it’s important to remember that not everybody here has
an everyday attitude towards gas and torches. There are people
everyday buying their first torch… And though Jeff’s comments
were genuinely funny, I don’t think we should scoff at people’s need
for beginning knowlege about gas and torches.

It’s also important to understand that much of the info out there is
generic, and aimed at the welding industry as a whole, regardless of
large or small. So you have shops with 100 torches, one inch gas
lines, and liquid oxygen for the oxygen supply. Flames and plasma
everywhere… On the other hand, I have a gas barbeque, using a 5
gallon LPG tank, and the instructions say nothing whatever about
bleeding lines or disconnecting them.

“Turn it off when not in use.” That’s it, that’s all.

Jim’s writings about what happens inside a regulator were very
interesting - no doubt truthful and I’m sure good advise. I’ve never
had any troubles with my regulators, but that doesn’t mean that
somebody can’t, either.

There are some truths, though: The gas in your line would probably
just about fill up a drinking glass, in terms of safety. Take a
match to that glass and it would go “poof” and be done with. I filled
up my above-mentioned barbeque with gas because it didn’t light, and
then I lit it. It went whooooosh, lifted the lid a half-inch, and
that was it. No biggie, though I wouldn’t recommend it, either.

Everybody has gas lines in their house, everybody in urban areas has
gas mains running down their streets. 12" pipes, full of gas.
Somehow we all manage to sleep nights. And the key to that is
installation. If you= r fittings are quality and properly installed
and your hoses and connections are in order, you are done. As Leonid
said, gas lines don’t just wake up in the middle of the night and
decide to leak. Do it properly, don’t forget about it but don’t
dwell on it, either, and move on…

As has been mention several times, the biggest risk is in the
3000psi oxygen bottles. Miniature rockets, if given the chance…

22

MY last comment on this is a lot of you must work for “Homeland
Insecurity”

There is a difference between being Safe and being Paranoid

If you are that paranoid about gases, either learn to do cold
connections or find another line of work.

People who know what they are talking about have given
recommendations and even links to the gas industry documents.

There is no need to be sloppy and just as much there is no need to
overdo it.

People like John Donivan and James Binnion, who have a depth of
experience and knowledge that they share on the board should be
listened to, Yes they often do not agree, but both their
recommendations are generally not far apart and “middle of the road”.

John’s represent a minimalist outlook, just close the tanks and turn
off the pickle and call it a day., While James’s recommendations are
textbook from the gas industry, along with the technical explanations
of why.

Both approaches will keep you safe and that is really the bottom
line.

Since this horse has been beaten to death both now and in the past,
let’s stop beating at it and frightening newcomers unnecessarily?

Actually the horse is so beaten it’s now hamburger, Anyone have a
propane Grill handy… Hmm wonder if an acetylene one would give the
same flavor to a hamburger or a different one???

Kay

23

My apologies for being some what flippant about handling torches and
gas. I have been rather casual for decades even with large systems
and still don’t know if there is an after life.

jeffD
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand

24 
Can someone with a good amount of assurance (mindful there are no
guarantees as we are dealing with volatile gases) give us the
ultimate, safe instructions for turning off tanks at the end of a
session, for the various types of tanks one would use in
metalsmithing so all of us, especially novices can feel safe and
not live in constant fear of a terrible accident.

Since you put it this way, the safest things is do not use any kind
of volatile compounds in your shop.

The very minute you step into any shop, where things are made you
exposing yourself to a myriad of dangers.

Leonid Surpin

25

John,

I think that it's important to remember that not everybody here
has an everyday attitude towards gas and torches.

A critical part of being a jeweller is being comfortable using a
torch. An extension of your fingers but slightly hotter.

I am slightly calm about torches and tanks after decades. Scary
moments involved dropping a lit torch (more than once, best to avoid
your lap :-), lighting fire to stuff on my bench, and the horrible
hissing sound when a falling scalpel had a bad encounter with a hose.
Torches are not that bad, nothing to be sacred of. Chances are that
I’ll be run over by a bloody truck while crossing the street before
blowing my self up.

jeffD
Demand Designs
Analog/Digital Modelling & Goldsmithing
http://www.gmavt.net/~jdemand

26

One other thing you might consider if you’re just starting out using
a gas/oxy torch is this.

Check with a local community college or tech school. Many of them
have a beginning welding class.

Admittededly you’ll be learning with industrial size torches, but
the safety training you’ll get before actually using a torch applies
to torches of any size.

You’ll probably start welding on 1/4" steel & then progress down to
thinner metal. If you can weld thin gauge steel sheet metal with a
BIG torch it isn’t hard to convert to jewelry metal with a small
torch.

Dave

27 
I for one am getting more confused than ever about how to turn off
my tanks and keep a safe environment.

In a forum like this, it’s important to determine which posters have
reliable In this forum, the top of the list on
credibility includes Jim Binnion. You won’t go wrong following his
advice.

Jamie

28 
I for one am getting more confused than ever about how to turn off
my tanks and keep a safe environment.

Grace, today somebody said, “Enough, it’s time to move on…” True
words. IF your tank is sound - that’s the responsibility of the
supplier. IF your hoses, regulators and torch handle are in good
order, which is your responsibility to keep them that way. And IF
your connections are tight and leak free, as they should be, then
all you need to do in terms of safety is turn off the tanks when
you’re done. Even if your six foot long prestolite line should
decide to leak in the middle of the night, there’s not enough gas in
it to do more than light a birthday candle. Gas has an inherent
hazard, but it’s not a nuclear weapon, either.

IF your tank valve leaks even when seated and your torch valve is
left open all night, then you have a problem, but those things aren’t
supposed to happen - E.G. it’s your job to make sure of that. Tanks
and torches have no brains or will - you are supposed to keep them
in good working order, in which case they will function just fine
and dandy for years and years.

Bleeding your line and backing off the regulator isn’t a bad idea,
mostly for the health of your regulator diaphram. But I don’t do
that and I never have, habitually, with no problems whatever. Again,
for decades now.

One cold night I said to our dinner mates that “Hey, our electric
blanket is turned on, waiting for us…” And I could see one stop
herself from saying, “But you shouldn’t do that because it could
short out and start a fire…” Why would it do that, and why would
it “decide” to do that when we’re away instead of when we’re in bed
in the wee hours? You can make up hypothetical hazards all day long,
if that’s all you have to do with yourself.

And here’s how to fry an egg: Get pan, put oil, make hot, put egg,
cook egg, eat egg. All the time I hear other people’s ways: Look out
window, wink left eye, hold pan in left hand, spin 1 1/2 times and
change to right hand… You get the idea, I hope. Get pan, get egg.
Done.

A torch only has a couple of minor things that make it any different
than the stove or furnace in your house - most importantly that the
pressure is considerably higher (that’s why we have regulators).
Your stove doesn’t keep you awake nights, does it?

29

If you do not bleed the lines, in an unheated soldering area with
freezing temperatures, would hose damage be more likely than when
located in a climate controlled studio?

30

There is most likely more danger in getting grease oil oil on the
oxygen regulator than there is in shutting the tank down improperly
just follow the directions from the welding supply!

goo

31 
Hmm wonder if an acetylene one would give the same flavor to a
hamburger or a different one?

A fellow silversmith in Albuquerque used to do his steaks with his
Prestolite torch, but they liked their steaks raw on the inside and
charred on the outside, unlike myself. They considered it the
perfect way to cook a steak.

To go a bit farther, and as many of us old-timers have tried to
pound home before. You ARE going to burn yourself, hopefully just a
scald. You ARE going to cut yourself, drill through a finger, smash
a fingernail, and in general draw blood occasionally, if you make
jewelry with any serious intent. It’s not the drills, it’s the cup
burs that get ya… I also burned through a hose on a mini-torch -
don’t remember how it happened, now.

I just spliced it back together and kept on going. Part of being a
craftsman is knowing how to avoid pushing a graver into the palm of
your hand. Keep band-aids, anyway. It happens.

There was a public TV show by a woodworker who’s name I don’t
remember now.

“The Woodwright”, maybe. Cabinet making, turning, carving,
furniture.One time he stabbed himself real good with a sharp chisel,
like blood streaming down his hand. He said, “Oh, well, look what I
did ---- Wow, I guess I really got myself good, this time…” I was
very impressed that they left that in the show. Learning how to be
comfortable with the various dangers in any shop is 1/2 of the deal -
risk management. Complacency is dangerous, comfort is good…
Training and experience bring that.

32 
If you do not bleed the lines, in an unheated soldering area with
freezing temperatures, would hose damage be more likely than when
located in a climate controlled studio?

The short answer is No.

Kay

33

Jamie

I for one am getting more confused than ever about how to turn off
my tanks and keep a safe environment. In a forum like this, it's
important to determine which posters have reliable In
this forum, the top of the list on credibility includes Jim
Binnion. You won't go wrong following his advice.

I agree with Jamie, and also speak with your gas supplier regarding
any change of how you will handle the tanks. They are helpful to
confirm what you think is reliable when it comes to the cylinders
they have supplied.

Thank you all for the great info, specifically the diagram and
details of the oxygen regulator, the reminder to fully open the oxy
cylinder to avoid a possible leak around the stem valve caused by
tank pressure, and to slowly to open the oxygen cylinder because of
the high pressure.

I am so grateful to have found this forum.

Much appreciation,
Ang

34

About speaking to one’s gas supplier as to how to handle gas tanks,
I have found that sometimes their advice is not always the best. The
guys which deliver the tanks of acetylene treat the tanks without
much respect.

I was flabbergasted when they delivered one which was almost
impossible for me to turn on. No matter how hard I tried to turn the
tank key, it would not budge. I asked for another tank. The delivery
man came back, gave the key a hard whack with a rubber mallet, and
said “There, that is all you have to do.”

Well, I was not about to accept a tank that required a hard whack
with a rubber mallet each time I wanted to turn it on, and finally he
gave me another one from his truck.

Alma