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Hoke-jewel damaged valve

#1

Hi there,
For some time I have spotted that when I close my oxygen tank, pressure from regulator and hoses is going down to 0 overnight. So I took my torch valves out for inspection and what I found is worn cone of oxygen valve
https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25995042_1552340471554165_5117403910143614320_n.jpg?oh=3065647a95235baf79292a8ebe31332f&oe=5AB73CB0

I wonder if there is a place where you can buy replacement valve for this torch?Or maybe should I weld some brass on damaged part and regrind it?

I know that whole torch is cheap but maybe is it better to get smith little torch instead of hoke?

Whats your suggestion?

#2

Probably not a good idea to weld and grind. You’re never going to get the precision seal you need, and might even create a dangerous situation with your torch.

I wonder how the cone was damaged in the first place. Is there something inside the valve that ground it away over time?

That being said, I love my Smith Little Torch.

Alec

#3

Valve tip is damaged over time or 8 years by closing it too tight. This is HOKE-JEWEL USA but made in china :smiley: so valves are not that precise. It is problably my fault because I never found time to properly adjust these valves to make them work nice and smooth.
Also there is Swiss torch which seems very nice but its more expensive then LT.

#4

Repairing things mechanical that are old, neglected or damaged is part of my life here!
and your valve is just one of those jobs that are not difficult.
Firstly, you dont weld up brass, you braze it, and brazing brass to brass doesnt work, because youll melt the part before youve got the brazing brass to stick.
however you dont have to do any of that,
continue dismantling the valve spindle, taking care not to damage the “O” ring.
Chuck the stem in a portable drill in the absence of a lathe, and with a file re profile the end to the same angle to remove the damage end point. finish off with some 600 grit wet and dry sand paper.
if you remove say 1mm all that will happen is the valve will turn half a rev more to close.
also youll need to clean up the seat the valve spindle seats into.
to do this, make up a wood dowel the same thickness as the valve spindle, with the end matching
the spindle angle.
then apply a coarse polishing compound to the pointed wood end and spin this with your drill down inside the torch hole to polish the seat. clean up all polish residue. and turn by hand the spindle in its hole by hand to mark up where it touches the seat. if youve a concentric line then the
spindle matches the seat and will close off the gas properly.
Reassemble and try .
Ted.

#5

You don’t say how long you have had your hoke torch. Has it proven worthy of replacement or a substitution. I’ve learned and used the Hoke torch for a very long time. With some very fine tips (in a kit from Rio Grande) I can get a very nice tiny flame. But when I need to turn it up and want to solder a heavy belt buckle, I’m wondering if the little torch is going to be able to match the hoke. I’m sure someone will tell me.

#6

I was thinking about adding some metal to damaged part using lampert PUK - just to not shorten valve itself. But At closer inspection its like you said - whole valve is too long anyway so shortening is just a little doesnt matter.
I disassembled whole valve and turned it on lathe taking care not to change cone angle too much.
But as I was cleaning whole torch body and changing hoses I have found what caused this damage. There was burr near oxygen valve seat - from the side of oxygen channel. So I removed it,
Valve angle doesnt matter also - because there is no matching seat. Its just straight plain hole.
Anyway I cleaned torch body in ultrasonic using clean water only - there was a lot of dirt from propane.
Installed new hoses - which was really difficult for me - not enough strength :frowning: but managed to get them on somehow(no lubricant ofcourse!!!)
Now torch works good I even have candle flame like it was advertised! :D. Still valves work not as smooth(no improvement) as I would like to but its chinesse torch. I am still thinking about getting Little or Swiss torch.
I also have needle tips for Hoke. I use them about 90% of time. Only using standard tips for melting, casting or workign with big pieces of silver.
What I am afraid of in LT is it is small. Which is good but I am not sure it will handle melting and casting 70-100gram of gold flask. Or melting platinum.
That is why I am leaning more to Swiss torch but its body is HUGE - body only has lenght of WHOLE hoke torch. So with tips it will be even longer. But It should be more versitalie - there are hoke style tips, melting tips, needle and tips for platinum. Thats a lot!
Does anyone have some comparasion between LT and ST?

#7

Im not sure where you live, so its difficult to advise re another torch. however, you should look at industrial welding suppliers to see what torches are available there. many industrial torches are a lot cheaper than those sold to jewelery makers.
Knowhow is everything. Good you repaired your torch.
I use an industrial prestolite torch from the 1930’s small , powerful and with changeable tips from minutec flames to big, as in brazing up 1/2in thick sections of cast iron.
also of course a gas axe! oxy propane or oxy /acet cutting torch. up to 1in thick steel.!
Ted.

#8

Hi Merik,

We have replacement (original) Hoke needle valves that may work. As long as the valve seat, in the Torch body, is in O.K. condition a replacement should be fine. Valve cout is $10 plus shipping. If you are outside the US maybe try a repair. You should also replace both of the brutal rubber ‘O’ rings. Our valves come with new rings. Contact us off Forum if you have questions.

www.PaigeTools.com

#9

I recently purchased a Little Torch after only using a Hoke. I’m getting ready to sell it because I’m going back to my Hoke. Maybe it’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks but I felt I didn’t get the annealing power from the Smith. I like being able to use one hand when changing the size of the flame which I can do with the Hoke. I have the small tips but find I don’t need to use them much.

#10

I’m puzzled by the popularity of the LT and Meco compared to the Hoke. I have an LT but changed to the Hoke. One handed adjustment possible with the Hoke and an assortment of tips from micro to casting at a very reasonable price. Easy to make a hook to hold the torch, too. I like the feel of it in the hand, too. The one knock on it is that the valves on the current Chinese made model are not smooth working…I can’t speak to that, as I lucked up on an old but pristine US made model for cheap.

#11

I agree that the newer Hokes aren’t as smooth as my 9 yr old model. I did take my #2 tip and drilled out the hole to make it more efficient for annealing.

#12

Thanks for all replies.

In summary I have recut valve tip on my lathe. Now it doesnt leak. Valves are crappy anyway - cheap chinese manufacture.

In the mean time I have bought LT with additional melting nozzle. Mixed feelings. Torch is very very small. Too light. Hoses are hevier then torch itself. I was thinking about replacing aluminium handle with stainless steel one to add some weight.
Nozzles are very short and bent at about 45 degree instead of 90. So you have to lift the torch higher and have i closer to work - not so good. Nozzles arent fixed so you can rotate them any direction - I dont like this feature :confused:
Valves are vering smoothly and precisely - this is what I like the most :smiley:

Melting nozzle works quite well. I have done some 80-100g casting with it and no coplains. But I think Hoke was slightly faster when melting.
What I dont like about this melting nozzle is that it has soldered tip instead on screwed on welded or riveted or everything else but soldered! I dont know whos briliant idea was it but its bad as hell.

Anyway, I will work with it for a while and time will tell if I will return to hoke (modify valves first) or look for Swiss torch or something else.

Also I have spoken with friend in UK who worked with chinese Meco and Hoke and he said that their are both crap - valves are too loose or stiff and not precise at all.

#13

Here’s a lightweight alternative to your heavy hose: https://www.tinmantech.com/products/welding/gas-welding-hoses/

#14

I have used the Tinman’s lightweight hose on my Meco for several years and it is great. You don’t know that there is a hose attached the torch…Rob

#15

Marek Naples,
I have used the Smith Little Torch for doing
custom and repair for over 20 years.
I guess it is what I am used too, I do not
have the issues or problems with it that you
are dealing with. I can do precise
retipping, soldering, make small ingots.
I have annealed 3” x 6” sheets of sterling
with no problem.
I have a large welding torch for melting
200-350 grams of metal for casting.
Paige tools has engineered tips for Meco,
Little Torch, and Hoke that give more stable
and better flame control, for using either
natural or propane gas.
The Little Torch #1 and 2 tips with ruby,
I pop the ruby tip as those tips are useless
to me, gives me an equal or larger flame
than the #7.