Heat Treating Steel

Not normal heat treating, no, that would be too easy :laughing: I had to find a steel that doesn’t like to cooperate. 0-1 tool steel cooperates, but after sawing dies made from it for 35 years, I went in search of a steel that’s a little easier to saw, and found 4130 alloy steel. It’s the only through-hardening steel that comes in the right thicknesses for RT/Pancake dies, with the right properties (softer than 0-1, primarily, that I found. It’s not much softer, but it is enough softer to make a difference.

Fine, great so far, until we get to heat treating. See, it’s a water-quench steel, but quenching pancake dies in water cools them too fast. The thermal shock can cause warping and misalignment, both very bad things for pancakes. Quenching 4130 in regular quenching oil doesn’t cool it fast enough to harden it properly. So, that led me to find fast-quench oils- first, an affordable one, then an expensive one that worked better. One big problem is that 4130 can’t be left at heat very long or awful scale forms, that’s hard to get off.

I’m omitting a lot of the experimentation I did over the last two years. Things like using stainless foil tool wrap to cut down on the oxidation and carbon scale, quenching between plates drilled full of holes, to name a couple. The 4130 needs to be heated fast and hot, then cooled fast but not too fast.
One thing I thought of first was a way to mix oil and water, like with a soapy agent. I’m not going to explain why al the things I tried didn’t quite work. I’m sparing us all most of those details. I’m showing a fun video clip of what I did eventually end up with as “the best” way to quench 4130 pancake dies, not that anyone would or should want to go this route. Using 0-1 is much more reliable and consistent as far as heat treating, unless you’re me , and trust me, you don’t want to be me :laughing: So, what I’m doing in the video is dunking a die into the pricey quenching fluid for about 1.5 seconds, then into water immediately. This cools the die down fast enough to get hard, but slow enough at the start so that flatness and alignment are preserved.

I made this one blast into flames a little extra just for show. Most of them don’t do that, and if they do burst, it’s less severe. The residual oil on the die and in the water get pulled up into the vaporized water cloud and combine with heat and air to create the perfect mix that makes fire.

Quenching RT/Pancake die made of 4130 alloy steel. - YouTube

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Have you tried a compressed air “quench” I don’t know if this is faster than oil but I know some steels can be quenched like this and I don’t just mean the air hardening flavours

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Too slow and definitely too uneven for pancake dies. :slightly_smiling_face:

I tried sawing a piece of air hard tool steel once…never again :laughing:

UPDATE on this , as if anyone else is ever going to need to know about heat treating pancake/RT dies made from 4130 alloy steel…but maybe someone, some day…

The funny thing is that the first, and to some, including me, the most overlooked idea was the oil/water/soap one. Guess what?.. that’s exactly what I’m doing now. Two mixtures, actually- one that’s about 45/45 water oil and 10% dish soap. maybe 15 % soap, I wasn’t scientific about it. The other is about 75 water, and the rest oil and soap (could be 80-85 water). Anyway, IT WORKS ! . Getting them hot fast is the key to minimizing scale, and fast cooling is the key to decent hardness.

The costly fast-quench fluid isn’t fast enough. 4130 is a water quench steel BUT all-water quench is too fast for pancakes; they warp and/or shift out of alignment. So, the oil/water/soap mix is the best compromise, the almost-best of both worlds. Hardness without distortion. This is the holy grail.

Dar

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Appreciate you posting this and I hope my future self somehow finds my way back here when I absolutely need this and I can’t find information :joy:

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Funny! If your future self can find my future self, I know that that me will be happy to share whatever it knows with that you. I hope that you never get into using 4130 steel, (for your sake !) :sweat_smile: 0-1 is much easier to deal with, heat treating. What I did, though, was saw 0-1 pancake dies for 35 years, and it got to me, mentally and physically. I looked for an easier way (softer steel, even a LITTLE softer, was important) and 4130 is the only through-hardenable steel that comes in the right thicknesses, that IS a little softer (about 20-35% easier to saw…there is a range in both steels). PLUS, it’s a lot less expensive. MINUS It’s messy as an oil spill and tricky to heat treat in the form of pancake dies.

Dar

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Just a random thought. Could you use a clay coating to moderate the cooling rate, in the same way that Japanese swordsmith would? You probably won’t want the hamon though.

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Sounds like way too much hassle/time. As is using tool wrap, which impeded cooling enough to render it mostly ineffective, even in water cooling. Hamon…(had to look it up)…differential hardening isn’t practical for RT/pancake dies. They need to stay flat in the kiln and potentially be squeezed between thick steel plates as part of quenching. I do heat treating production style, big batches, slam dunk approach. It feels like the process I have it narrowed down to is about as good as it can get with 4130.

Dar