Green Amethyst?

Thanks for the explanation. But now someone who works at a rock
shop has posted that prasiolite is green amethyst. Are there legal
regulations on the naming of gems? 

Not as such. Some gemstones are named by the person or people who
discovered or developed the treatment for the gem. Unfortunately,
many of them are miners or dealers who are more concerned with
designing a name that will help them sell as much of it as possible.
Using the term green “amethyst” for prasiolite is simply the miners’
and dealers’ way of attaching a very well-known gem nomenclature
(amethyst) to a relatively new, treated gemstone (treated green
quartz) so that they may sell as much of it as possible.

It is not only the customers who are confused. I mean, I have met
a number of wholesalers who are calling this stuff green amethyst
and charging an arm and a leg for it! I know a number of jewelry
designers are probably calling it green amethyst because the
wholesalers told them that is what it  was. 

This has long been a problem in the gemological and jewelry
community. People who mine and deal in a new gem variety have
historically often attached well-known gemstone nomenclatures to
them, jacked up the prices and, before the public catches on, make
their fortunes. The end result is always predictable - when dealers
sell strands of very inexpensive prasiolite as green “amethyst” for
$900 as another recently posted, there is a lot of commerce for a
while. Then, after the public is finally informed of the true value
of these consumer confidence in our entire industry is
ruined until the hoopla blows over.

What’s the answer? First, study gemology. Seriously. If you want to
know and understand enough about the gem materials you use every day,
you have to make at least a minimal study of the science involved in
why each gem material is named the way it is. You don’t have to spend
thousands of dollars on a diploma (although I strongly recommend it)
to gain this knowledge, there are plenty of books on the subject.
Ganoksin’s web site has plenty of entries about these types of books.

Second, try googling the gem’s name. There are hundreds of gemology
sites out there, all dedicated to listing the properties of all
Most of them will tell you everything you need to know
about what a gem material really is, along with common treatments and
care of the gem. Get involved in your local rock and gem club. People
there are interested in all of the subjects we discuss here,
including the state of the gem and jewelry industry.

Read as many trade publications as you can. Every trade magazine
I’ve read has addressed the problem of green “amethyst” over the past
few years.

Unfortunately, there is no organized Gemstone Nomenclature Police,
so we’re all on our own. We, as trade people, must arm ourselves with
as much knowledge as possible to avoid such outrageous occurrences as
$900 strands of prasiolite. If we don’t, the public will eventually
find out. When that happens, our kids won’t be getting their
back-to-school clothes, or Christmas iPods.

James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL

The particular necklace that I saw was simply a string of green
quartz that the jewelry store identified as "green amythyst", with
a small commercial clasp which I am assuming is 14 K and the price
was an astounding $900. Yikes, now that I know the story, the
mark-up is mind boggling. Any comments? 

I am sure this is why many are calling the stuff “green amythyst.”
It’s called “fleecing the yokels.” I can hear the pitch now-- “yes,
that’s green amythyst. Most amythyst is purple; the green is very
rare.”

Lee

 It is not only the customers who are confused. I mean, I have met
a number of wholesalers who are calling this stuff green amethyst
and charging an arm and a leg for it! I know a number of jewelry
designers are probably calling it green amethyst because the
wholesalers told them that is what it was." 

It is very difficult to stay on top of this stuff, but it is our
profession, and if we are going to sell things, we need to do our
best to be knowledgable.

The “green amethyst” fiasco is no different from “strawberry quartz”
or, even more similarly, “white turquoise”. Just as turquoise
cannot be white, since by definition it is green or blue, amethyst
cannot be green. I suppose people feel they can call it green
amethyst because it was amethyst until it was heated to change the
color. That would make citrine “yellow amethyst”. So then I guess we
would have to call the actual purple stuff “purple amethyst”, at
which point “amethyst” becomes a synonym for “quartz”.

There are many reliable books on these subjects. It behooves us not
to simply repeat what we were told by vendors without thought or
examination-- after all, once it is in our hands, it is our own
reputations on the line.

Noel

Rio Grande has faceted stones in the green amethyst. 

Yup, I just pulled out my brand-new Rio catalog, and there are
“green amethyst” briolettes, no qualifiers or explanations.

Noel

It took me about 10 minutes to figure this one out. Green amethyst as
listed in rio grande’s catalog is irradiated quartz. Rio Grande lists
it as being achieved using pale brazilian amethyst. I checked with
another source and its irradiated clear quartz.

Green quartz, whether naturally occurring or treated is Prasiolite
by definition. It can be made from some iron containing Amethyst
through heat treatment. The treatment is permanent.

Jerry in
Kodiak

"yes, that's green amythyst. Most amythyst is purple; the green is
very rare." 

Hey c’mon, now Lee. Not all amethyst can be destroyed… er, I mean
heat treated… to get a green. Some just doesn’t get that color. So
maybe it’s a bit rarer than amethyst. Not that this is saying much,
given how NOT rare amethyst is in the medium to light color ranges.
And hey, y’know, the heat treater has to actually get the temp right
or he’ll pass right through the narrow range that gives that color.
So they have to be sober and not high on crack. Again, that’s just
gotta eliminate at least some of the heat treaters who try to make
this stuff…

cheers
Peter

Lucky you, I live in the UK and am having immense trouble in buying
a Rio Grande catolog, I know that it should be simple but I am asked
to fill in which state I live in and other things that do not apply
to me and when I click to buy they tell me that I have entered my
incorrectly, so I have given up.

Sam.

The “Green Amethyst” is Prasiolite or Vermarine when it is natural.

The correct name for the Amethyst material that is heated and turns
light green is “Greened Amethyst”. The name has deteriorated to
"Green Amethyst"

The correct term should be “Greened Amethyst”.

See the references below.

  Welcome to Bernie's Lapidary Supply Co.... Prasiolite or
  Vermarine Also known as Greened Amethyst produced by careful
  heating of Amethyst from one Brazilian location from the
  deposit Montezuma in Minas...
  bernieslapidary.com 

  Quartz Vermarine, also known as Prasiolite or "Greened"
  Amethyst is a light to medium green quartz produced by careful
  heating of amethyst from one Brazilian...
  www.tradeshop.com/gems/quartz.html 

Now “Greened Amethyst” is made by irradiating clear quartz from
certain locations with Cobalt 60 Gamma Ray irradiation. The locations
are several mines in Brasil and one in Uruguay.

There was a fair amount of “Prasiolite” available at the recent Gem
and Mineral Show in Teofilo Otoni, Minas Gerais, Brasil. It was
available in faceted stones and in the rough. And you could buy the
rough by the piece or by the kilo. It was, without a doubt, all
irradiated clear quartz from the few locations that turn the
characteristic green color after irradiation.

We did buy a few pieces of rough that were purported to be "natural"
not irradiated “Prasiolite”

We also bought a few faceted stones and some briolettes of
"Prasiolite".

We had intended on buying more of the faceted material but got
distracted by some Paraiba Toumaline rough from the original Sao
Jose de Batalha mine in Paraiba, Brasil. Also got some mineral
specimens from there, too.

We should have more of the rough and faceted stones of "Prasiolite"
or “Green Amethyst” at our booth at the GJX at the next Tucson Show -
if conditions permit air travel by then.

Best regards,
Robert Lowe
Lowe Associates - Brasil
Gemstones, Rough, Specimens
Tucson - Jan 31 - Feb 5, 2007 - GJX # 205

Not to beat a dead horse, but could someone from Rio Grande chime
in here? I bought stones from the Rio catalog that are said to be
green amethyst. I have customers asking for it. So, what is the
tratment, is it permanent, what actions could remove it, and if it
is not amethyst then what is it really 

I’m not from Rio, but I will chime in here. As I said in a previous
post, Rio is usually very conscientious about proper nomenclatures
and treatment disclosures, but somebody really screwed up on this
one.

The treatment is heat, not irradiation. I don’t know where Rio’s
people got that info, but it is wrong. The heat treatment is
considered to be stable, that is, it won’t fade under normal light
and heat exposure. Therefore, it is considered permanent.

As you have probably read several times now, it is not amethyst. It
was, at one time, amethyst but when its color was changed by heating,
it became prasiolite.

Many times in gemological history, misnomers have been used so
widely that they became acceptable terms for gemstones (some people
still refer to smoky quartz as smoky “topaz”). Most of those
misnomers have been overcome by responsible stewards of our industry,
coupled with a far larger base (the Internet) than was
available in days past. This forum has shown me just how many people
who use gem materials today are so poorly informed. Even some of the
world’s largest suppliers to the trade (Rio, for one) can be duped
into advertising and selling this “flavor of the month” gemstone in a
misleading manner.

Because of the attachment of the word “amethyst” to this greenish
variety of quartz, desire for it has increased amazingly. While there
is no domestic or international law I know of that addresses this
(other than outright fraud), I can see the general public discovering
the reality lurking there. If enough people complain about paying
such exorbitant prices for heat treated quartz, the FTC may consider
bringing an action.

Peggy, if you have people asking for it, by all means, sell it to
them. However, please explain to them what it actually is, and I
suggest you use the term prasiolite when advertising or selling it.
People may call it whatever they wish, but if you sell it to them as
amethyst, you’ll be perpetuating an incorrect nomenclature that is
detrimental to our trade. Tell them that people are calling it green
“amethyst,” but it really is called prasiolite. Forget the fact that
they’ll never remember the word “prasiolite” (even if you write it
down for them), but you’ll have been as honest and correct as
possible.

James S. Duncan, G.G
James in SoFL

Second, try googling the gem's name. There are hundreds of gemology
sites out there, all dedicated to listing the properties of all
Most of them will tell you everything you need to know
about what a gem material really is, along with common treatments
and care of the gem 

I feel that I have to add to my original post here. When googling
gemstone names, be careful to separate the various metaphysical sites
from the purely scientific ones. I don’t mean that people should
avoid metaphysical descriptions altogether, just that the scientific
ones will supply you with current pertinent to what
actually IS in the world of as opposed to what people may
simply feel about it. While I have found metaphysical descriptions of
gemstone properties useful, I have also found that many of the sites
list incorrect scientific properties, treatments, etc., and are
usually loaded with misnomers. Green “amethyst” is definitely a one
of them.

One of the best free sources of gemological online is
yourgemologist.com, a serious gemology site by Robert James, F.G.A.,
G.G.

Another source for practically any subject is wikipedia.org, the
free online encyclopedia. Every term I google these days usually
includes a wikipedia link. I’ve yet to see any wrong information
regarding gemstones there.

James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL

It took me about 10 minutes to figure this one out. Green 
amethyst as listed in rio grande's catalog is irradiated quartz.
Rio Grande lists it as being achieved using pale brazilian
amethyst. I checked with another source and its irradiated clear
quartz.

I don’t think 10 minutes was enough time spent. While Rio Grande
does list the material as green amethyst, it’s still a misnomer and
very incorrect. Also, while the material does come from two locations
in Brazil, one in Poland, and reportedly, Arizona, it is heat treated
to get the greenish color, not irradiated. I have never read in any
trade publication, gemological laboratory report or heard from any
other source, that prasiolite’s color is attained by irradiation, so
I believe Rio Grande has dropped the ball twice with this listing.
That’s surprising, since they are usually very conscientious about
disclosure.

Also, prasiolite is definitely not obtained from clear quartz,
irradiated, heated or otherwise. The original material is purplish
amethyst, though I’m told it is fairly low in saturation. It is the
trace amount of iron in amethyst that interacts with the silicon and
oxygen molecules to cause light energy to be absorbed in such a way
that makes the amethyst look purplish to our eyes. Heating amethyst
loosens the bonds of the iron molecules, making it absorb different
parts of the spectrum, causing us to see it as yellow. There also
happens to be pale colored amethyst from a few locations that turn
yellowish-Green when heated. This is the gem that people have called
vermarine, lime “citrine,” green “amethyst,” and most correctly,
prasiolite.

Interestingly, one source of this material is located near a hot
spring, and I have heard from several sources that the heat from the
spring may cause some of the natural material that has been
unearthed. That’s right, there are examples of this material that have
occurred naturally, with no human-induced heat treatment. It’s still
that pale, washed-out color, though.

James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL

Now "Greened Amethyst" is made by irradiating clear quartz from
certain locations with Cobalt 60 Gamma Ray irradiation. The
locations are several mines in Brasil and one in Uruguay. 

Please let me know the source of this as mine must be
outdated. This is the first I’ve read of clear quartz being
irradiated to turn it green. Thank you.

James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL

Sam, I am in the UK and buy from Rio Grande intermittently, I fax
them an order and it comes in about a week. I found their on line
ordering too much trouble, and fax was safer for credit card details,
send them an E-mail, they seem quite happy to send out catalogues. Be
warned there are a lot of them!

I generally get together witha couple of local jewellers to bulk up
the order, the carriage and duty come to about 50 depending on
weight, so you need to buy 300+ to cover those costs. They do have
stuff you don’t seem to be able to get anywhere else.

regards Tim.

Noel,

If I may jump in here for a moment please. I don’t think we can
equal Strawberry Quartz, Opalite, Moss Quartz and all the other Man
Made stuff sold as natural stone to the Greened Amethyst material.
Prasiolite is naturally formed although the color may not be
natural. The others I mentioned are simply glass.

Also, if we start calling everything Quartz, won’t that be even more
confusing? I never heard anyone refer to Citrine as Yellow Quartz or
Amethyst as Purple Quartz. I have dealt with stones for 30 years,
though self -taught, I asked many, many questions, read as many
books as I can and of course, have Orchid to help. But my hair stands
up when I enter a supplier and I am told that the blue glass beads
that are so pretty are called Aquamarine Quartz! Gosh, I want to
scream! Mind you I don’t work with glass as a general rule. Just
stones, with the exception of Opalite and Strawberry Quartz and I do
tell my customers the price is low because they are man made and
primarily are Glass, nothing but glass. They buy it anyway, and
everyone is happy because they know what they are getting. I do carry
the Greened Amethyst. I tell them what is being called, that it is
heat treated. They do not care as long as they know what it is. And I
do want them to trust me, I do not lie (intentionally) and when
something new comes to the market I do my homework and research,
research, research.

We need to discuss this from time to time as there are the newcomers
who did not participate in the previous discussion. At any rate it
is important not to perpetuate the confusion and sometimes deceit we
all might encounter in our field. And there will always be the
“Aquamarine Quartz” and the “Strawberry Quartz” type of incident.

If someone wants to charge you $900.00 for a strand of any
Amethysts, go elsewhere! There are suppliers out there selling the
green stuff at almost the same price point as regular good quality
Amethyst. Just keep looking!

My other point is that I have been told that only Amethyst from
Montezuma, Brazil can be heat treated to the green color. Is that
true? If that is true, it certainly adds a bit to the perceived value
(in my opinion) as there is only one source of the material which is
suitable for the treatment. Does anyone know if this is correct?

Thanks for listening.
Vera Battemarco
verabattemarco.com

Sam

they tell me that I have entered my incorrectly

That is a very common problem when one deals online with USA
companies. I call it the 52 state problem. Namely, America has fifty
two states and the other irrelevant state is the world. Mostly a
phone call and some patience solves the problem, especially Rio,
which has some experience in international orders. Some USA
companies are lightning quick, but many, many are transmitting morse
code from Noah’s Ark. And speaking of phone calls use Skype. Much
cheaper when you listening to ‘on hold’ music for ten minutes.

Long suffering an savvy,
Hans Meevis

Hi everyone,

Well, it seems we have stirred up something! As the gemstone manager
for Rio Grande, I take full responsibility for our actions on this
Green Amethyst debacle. I never dreamed that the term “Green
Amethyst” would cause such an issue. Clearly I was wrong! Greened
Amethyst is a term I find in my GIA Gem Reference Guide, right next
to Green Quartz and Praseolite. In my copy of the Gem Reference
Guide, which admitedly isn’t necessarily the latest edition, “Greened
Amethyst” is listed right beside Green Quartz and Praseolite. At the
time my Gem Reference Guide was published Greened Amethyst was not
listed as a misnomer. Rio Grande never intends to mislead or dupe our
customers. I chose to use the term “Green Amethyst” because this is
what is commonly advertised in the marketplace. However, I am
sensitive to the opinions of this emminent discussion group. Rio
Grande will advertise this product as Green Quartz in future
catalogs, and I have already changed the description that will appear
on invoices.

I want to point out Rio Grande clearly describes what this material
is. On page 213 of our 2006-2007 Gems & Findings catalog we state,
“The spring-like green in green amethyst is achieved by irradiating
pale Brazilian amethyst…” We also carefully list the AGTA treatment
code: Irradiated ®. For care, we state: Wash with warm soapy water,
Avoid harsh detergents, Ultasonic cleaning is usually safe, and Never
steam clean. We have double-checked with our sources, and have been
told that the green quartz we are offering is indeed irradiated
and/or heat-treated. We will certainly include the heat-treatment
AGTA disclosure in future catalogs too.

I offer apologies to anyone who was offended by my decision to use
the term “Green Amethyst”. If anyone should wish to contact me
directly to further discuss this, I welcome your e-mails or telephone
calls.

Sincerely,

Kevin Whitmore
Gemstone Manager
Rio Grande
(505) 839-3114
@Kevin_Whitmore

Also, if we start calling everything Quartz, won't that be even
more confusing? I never heard anyone refer to Citrine as Yellow
Quartz or Amethyst as Purple Quartz. 

Well, yes, that was my point. If you allow/use the term “green
amethyst”, then what is now called citrine, which is mostly heated
former-amethyst, becomes “yellow amethyst”, the original, purple
material would heve to be called “purple amethyst”, and all the
different quartz terms are in danger of losing their meaning. This
type of illustration, in logic, is referred to as “reductio ad
absurdum”, demonstrating that if you follow a line all the way to
its extreme end, it is absurd. Sorry if you thought I was suggesting
or endorsing the new names!

Noel

In my copy of the Gem Reference Guide, which admitedly isn't
necessarily the latest edition,  "Greened Amethyst" is listed
right beside Green Quartz and Praseolite. At the time my Gem
Reference Guide was published Greened Amethyst was not listed as a
misnomer. Rio Grande never intends to mislead or dupe  our
customers. I chose to use the term "Green Amethyst" because this is
what is commonly advertised in the marketplace. However, I am
sensitive to the opinions of this emminent discussion group. Rio
Grande will advertise this product as Green Quartz in future
catalogs, and I have already changed the description that will 
appear on invoices. 

Kevin, I’d like to thank you for your attention in this matter, as
it does hit near and dear to my heart. As I’ve already mentioned more
than once, I appreciate Rio Grande’s policy of disclosure, and I’m
sure the gem and jewelry community can forgive the occasional one
that falls through the cracks. After all, it is a very big catalog.

That being said, my copy of the Gem Reference Guide is the latest
(1995) and it, too, lists “greened amethyst” (note the quotation
marks) under the Trade Names heading. I know that what I’m about to
type can be confusing, but it is important for anyone on this forum
who never wants to be duped into buying something they think is
something else: Any gem nomenclature with quotation marks is a
misnomer. I’ll repeat that: Any gem nomenclature with quotation marks
is a misnomer. Here’s a perfect example: go to
firemountaingems.com and look at their gemstone beads. Look
under jade, especially. Look at new “jade.” (actually serpentine)
Look at the African “jade.” (actually hydrogrossular garnet). This
same gemstone is also marketed as Transvaal “jade.” My point here is
that, although I don’t personally object to it, “greened amethyst” is
presented in your Guide as a misnomer. Green “Amethyst” is just too
much, and I thank you deeply for taking care of the problem.

I want to point out Rio Grande clearly describes what this
material is. On page 213 of our 2006-2007 Gems & Findings catalog
we state, "The spring-like green in green amethyst is achieved by
irradiating pale Brazilian amethyst..." We also carefully list the
AGTA treatment code: Irradiated (R). For care, we state: Wash with
warm soapy water, Avoid harsh detergents, Ultasonic cleaning is
usually safe, and Never steam clean. We have double-checked with
our sources, and have been told that the green quartz we are
offering is indeed irradiated and/or heat-treated. We will
certainly include the heat-treatment AGTA disclosure in future
catalogs too. 

That’s a blessing, as well. And thanks to a link that Carrie
provided me to gemologyonline.com, I’ve read an interesting report
from a Brazilian nuclear commission that describes an irradiation
treatment of colorless quartz by using Cobalt-60 to achieve different
colors, including green. Thanks Carrie, I’d hate to stop learning :slight_smile:
But it seems that pale, Brazilian amethyst it typically heat treated,
while it is colorless quartz that is irradiated to get these colors.

At any rate, I’d like to thank you again, Kevin. I’m a longtime
customer of Rio Grande and have never had a problem of any kind with
your company. Probably 75% of my shop tools and instructional videos
have come from Rio, and I respect your willingness to always make
things right.

James S. Duncan, G.G.
James in SoFL

Hi,

So, what is the tratment, is it permanent, what actions could
remove it, and if it is not amethyst then what is it really? 

Amethyst owes its colour due to a hole colour center induced by
irradiation (in this case Fe is the impurity that is creates the
hole). When heated (around 400-450 degrees C) the colour center is
removed and the resulting colour will be either yellow (citrine) or
green (greened amethyst/prasiolite).

The purple colour can then be restored by further irradiation, which
can then be returned to yellow or green by heating. This process can
be repeated indefinate unless overheating occured. All colours are
stable.

The term “greened amethyst” is different from “green amethyst” in
that the former indicates that the gem was purple before treatment
(natural or artificial). The latter is the same as “blue ruby”.

Alain