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Glueing silver to porcelain


#1

Hi all. I want to create some pendants by glueing silver or copper
bails to pieces of porcelain. I had planned to abrade all surfaces
and use a good epoxy. Or should I use super glue? I decided throw it
out here first to see if any of you have more specific advice on a
particular glue or technique likely to create the best bond. Thanks!

Allan


#2

Hi Allan,

In my (long) experience with glue, I have found my favorite to be
"Omni Stick". I have used E600, standard 2 part epoxies, super glues,
etc. etc. In the past, I had to buy it online but have recently found
it at a big box craft store. I googled it before posting here and you
can still buy it online if that helps you.

Of course the key is to have both sides clean and slightly abraded as
you already know. I think for the price, it’s worth your
experimenting with it. There’s nothing like having a project fall
apart because of a faulty bond.

Good luck and happy gluing,
Karen


#3

You’re better off with epoxy. Superglue tends to fail under shock.
Epoxy is tougher. Make sure you give yourself plenty of surface area
for the bond.

RC


#4
I want to create some pendants by glueing silver or copper bails
to pieces of porcelain. I had planned to abrade all surfaces and
use a good epoxy. Or should I use super glue? 

I agree that super glue is not a good choice. But I would
recommend-- none of the above. I know, people do it all the time. But
if it were I, I would drill the porcelain and rivet, or set the
porcelain in a bezel. Porcelain is easy to drill with patience,
water, and a good quality diamond drill bit. I favor the tubular
ones-- I think they’re called core drills. Twist drills second; those
cheapo wire ones dead last.

Noel


#5

Radical idea:

Porcelain has a higher temperature than silver. After all, they make
crucibles out of glazed porcelain.

So, why not design the porcelain element so that it captures some of
the molten silver when you pour it (use a disposeable mold for the
rest of the silver)?

If you use the proper geometry the silver and the porcelain will be
mechanicaly fastened to each other, permanently.

This actually happened to me as the result of a stupid experiement in
involving a homemade crucible that went south.

Andrew Jonathan Fine


#6

This is the perfect application for silver clay. You can just mold
the clay around your design or make a bail of the silver clay and
dry it onto the porcelain, capturing it in between. When the clay
shrinks, it locks onto the porcelain and you don’t have to use glue.
You can then fire them both together at 1600 F. for 10 minutes. Ive
done this numerous times with great results.


#7
Porcelain has a higher temperature than silver. After all, they
make crucibles out of glazed porcelain. 

True, porcelain firing temperatures are higher than the melting
point of silver. That’s not the issue-- heat shock is. The porcelain
used for crucibles is NOT the same as the porcelain you eat your
dinner off of! High temp ceramics such as crucibles are formulated
differently from normal decorative ware. So unless the plan is to add
bails to pieces of crucibles, the porcelain is very unlikely to be
able to withstand the heat shock.

Oh, and also, I’ve never seen a glazed crucible, unless you count
how it looks after it gets a lot of flux melted on it.

On the other hand, if the porcelain pieces are cheap and
replaceable, I’m all for outside-the-box thinking!

Noel


#8

i hope this post gets through…an observation about neils passing
did not…

drill the porcelain… bezel set the porcelain, prong set the
porcelain… lots of ways to mount with these techniques. if you’re
making the porcelain [which i guess your not] have the manufacturer
make it with them pierced, if the design will aloow.

hth
richard the jeweller and ceramist


#9
If you use the proper geometry the silver and the porcelain will
be mechanicaly fastened to each other, permanently.

Well as long as you want a really loose fit that would work, Silver
has a very high thermal expansion rate and porcelain has a very low
one. So as the silver cools it will shrink away from the porcelain.
You could end up with several percent shrinkage from solid to liquid
and then the shrinkage from solidus to room temp would result in a
very loose fit.

James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


#10

My choice would be E-6000. It’s tough, but stays rather flexible.
It’s very good with either glass or porcelain-to-metal.

J. Anderson


#11
You could end up with several percent shrinkage from solid to
liquid and then the shrinkage from solidus to room temp would
result in a very loose fit. 

I suspect this would vary according to the geometry of the two
materials. If the silver is a dovetail extending into the porcelain,
then yes, shrinkgage would make the dovetail smaller, so loose. But
what about if it were the reverse, with the silver surrounding an
extension of the porcelain. I’m thinking there should be a way for
the silver’s shrinkage to actually tighten it around whatever it’s
surrounding in the porcelain…

Peter


#12
I'm thinking there should be a way for the silver's shrinkage to
actually tighten it around whatever it's surrounding in the
porcelain... 

I’m not saying it would be impossible but I suspect that such an
arrangement would result in hot tears of the sterling. Sterling has
very little strength and is very prone to grain boundary cracking
above 1400 F

James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts