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Forging on both sides of metal?


#1

Hi, I am trying to create a hammered texture on both sides of a
piece. I am working with a 16g fine silver round wire, planishing
one side with a rounded hammer, then I want to turn it over and do
the other side, leaving texture on both. I did the initial hammering
on an anvil, then tried the second side over a piece of wood. That
didn’t work, so then I tried laying a piece of lucite over the anvil
and that did a little, but not much. Any insights here?

Thank you! -P


#2
Hi, I am trying to create a hammered texture on both sides of a
piece. 

Hello Phoebe,

I’ve always been interested in doing the same and have had varied
results. My observations have been:

  • you need to texture the second side while the first side rests on a
    yielding and/or non-maring surface. Sheet cork (thick stuff), UHMW
    plastic, an old phone book, and carpeting have all worked for me but
    each has it’s problems too.

  • if the piece is small enough try using pitch, like they stuff they
    use for chasing. I’ve stuck pieces to a chunk of thick plywood if
    it’s not practical to use a pitch bowl. This works but it also makes
    a hell of a lot of noise.

  • try using punches on the second side instead of hammers. There is
    something about the extra weight of the hammer that tends to pummel
    the texture on the first side.

  • experiment with annealing. Sometimes it helps to anneal between
    doing the first and second sides, sometimes not.

  • it can be quite difficult to get the patterns on both sides to
    match. Much easier to design the piece so that each side has it’s
    own pattern.

Above all keep trying. A little trial-and-error can go a long way.
Good luck.

Cheers,
Trevor F.
in The City of Light
www.touchmetal.com


#3

Hello Phoebe:

I have a hydralic press and it came with these thick plastic like
pads that you use to push the metal through the dies. They are GREAT
to use if need to hammer something on one side while keep the other
side of the metal intact. I use a red pad for that. I think you can
buy them in the Rio Grande Tool catalog.

DeDe


#4
     I am trying to create a hammered texture on both sides of a
piece. I am working with a 16g fine silver round wire, planishing
one side with a rounded hammer, then I want to turn it over and do
the other side, leaving texture on both. 

hi, just use the same shape peen on each side, set another hammer in
the vise (not clamped over tthe ‘eye’ of the hammer to avoid breaking
it), then you give the same blow simultaneously to top and bottom. In
the same way you can hold a piece of sheet at a 45 degree anlge to
the edge of an anvil or other sharp 90 edge, then strike with a
rivetting hammer on the top of the sheet, thus texturing oppositve
sides at the same time (its fast too).

best
Charles


#5

Phoebe,

A close simulation of a hammered surface can be done with a fairly
fine wheel on your flex shaft.

Jerry in Kodiak


#6

Thank you! -P

Hi, Phoebe, the problem with forging the hammer marks the way you
are doing it is that the anvil or wood or lucite is applying the same
force to the other side of the metal at the you are applying to the
top. I once solved this problem by using two identical hammers and
putting one in a vise to use as the “anvil”. Very tedious trying to
keep the hammers centered. I think making a device incorporating two
domed surfaces and a long u shaped connecting piece to keep them
aligned might solve your problem. You could put this in a vise and
beat on the top head with something to develop the surface you need.
Maybe make it so you can change out the hammer heads to get different
surfaces.

Just my thoughts. Hope this helps.

Robin C. McGee
Warren, MI
Rcmcgee47@comcast.net


#7

Have you tried Jet Set to imbed the first side after hammering it? I
don’t know if it will work, but it’s probably worth a try.

Tim


#8
I am trying to create a hammered texture on both sides of a piece.

Maybe the best way to do it is to hammer-texture two thin sheets and
solder them together back-to-back. Most other methods will in some
way mar the texture on the one side as you try to texture the other.

Lee


#9

Phoebe, the best way that i found to forge on both sides of metal is
to find a large, thick piece of nylon. just like the dead blow
hammers they sell at most jewelry tool suppliers. i was lucky enough
to find a small round anvil (4 inchs diameter), where one side is
steal and the other side is hard nylon. it works great and will not
mess up the texture on the first side…i know that you can find just
the nylon in half inch thick sheets, a friend of mine had a piece,
but im not sure where to buy it… i hope this will help.

steve


#10
... I once solved this problem by using two identical hammers and
putting one in a vise to use as the "anvil". Very tedious trying to
keep the hammers centered. I think making a device incorporating
two domed surfaces and a long u shaped connecting piece to keep
them aligned might solve your problem. 

Hello Robin,

Now that sounds like a very promising idea! Thank you for sharing
it.

I understand that bladesmiths use a similar tool to create the fuller
(lengthwise groove) on sword blades and the blood gutters on large
hunting knives. There is a picture of such a device in Jim Hrisoulas’
book “The Master Bladesmith”, p. 170.

I can imagine that one could make a simple version with a length of
strap iron and a couple ball bearings. Hmmm, must put that on my “try
this” list.

Cheers,
Trevor F.
in The City of Light
www.touchmetal.com


#11

Hi Phoebe: Forging wire is fun, but if you have flattened your 16
ga. wire with a planishing hammer on one side, you may have to anneal
your wire in order to get a nice texture on the other side. I would
recommend annealing your piece and then maybe using a lead block to
texture on (softer than the anvil) and experiment with narrow-ended
hammers or placing metal rods, textured metal or some other textured
surface that won’t break on top of your wire and then hammering the
texture in.You can also lay your wire on a piece of metal (or stone)
that has a texture you like and then hammer. The more you pound on
your wire, of course, the oftener you will have to anneal it.

Vi Jones, finished making fresh raspberry jam in the beautiful
Pacific Northwest.


#12

When I worked as a bench guy in a jewelry store years ago, we hammer
finished plain bands as the customer waited out front. We ground the
hammer-- peen marks-- in with a cratex or similar wheel… This
allowed us more control and didn’t stretch the band. I’ve since
used this technique on hollow objects on in places where a hammer
won’t go. I always show this during one of my bench tricks classes.

Hope this helps.
Andy Cooperman


#13
... I once solved this problem by using two identical hammers and
putting one in a vise to use as the "anvil". Very tedious trying
to keep the hammers centered. I think making a device incorporating
two domed surfaces and a long u shaped connecting piece to keep
them aligned mi 

The two hammer suggestions gave me an idea. A simple rack type
arbor press ( cheap) or maybe better- a screw (flypress) press (
relatively expensive) could be set up with identical dies top and
bottom. This would allow identical impressions ( coining) on both
sides. The Flypress would be better.

http://www.oldworldanvils.com/flypresses/index.html

I have a baby size 0 – someday I will try it for this.== making
some dies tonight.

The flypress will be easier to control a reproducible depth of the
impressions.Either tool would go pretty fast.

jesse


#14
I am trying to create a hammered texture on both sides of a piece. 

Hello All;

The best way to do this is to make what old blacksmiths refer to as
a spring fuller and use it with a power hammer. But if you’re not
going to be doing a lot of this, I have a “down and dirty” quick
method. Go to a hardware store and buy “strap hinge” that when open,
spans a 6 or 8 inch distance. These look like a pair of long
triangles hinged together at the bottoms with holes in them. Then
get a couple “carriage bolts”. These are bolts with a dome shaped
round head. Get short ones and nuts and lock washers that can fit
into the endmost holes in each triangle tip. You’re going to put the
bolts, one each, into the endmost holes of the hinge so that when
you close the hinge, the rounded heads of the bolts touch together.
Before you install the bolts, sand the heads of the bolts to a 600
grit paper, then heat them red hot and drop them into cold water with
some TSP or even dishwashing soap dissolved. This will harden them
the little bit that you can harden mild steel. Sand the black off
with the 600 grit paper again. Now polish with Tripoli and rouge. Now
put them in their holes in the hinge. You may have to hold them with
pliers or vise grips to get them tight, since they really need a
square hole to be tightened into. You can always file the hole out
square if you want to take the time. You may have to drill out the
holes a bit to use bolts with big enough heads to give you the gauge
of dent you desire. Get a block of hard wood to mount this gizmo on
and drill a hole so that the nut of the bottom die will clear
allowing one side of the hinge to be screwed down flat on the wood.
Now you have a hinged fullering jig and you can slip your metal
between the heads of the bolts and hammer away on the top nut which
drives the heads into either side of your metal simultaneously while
moving the metal around between the dies. If you want to make a
permanent version of this tool, you’ll need to look into getting tool
steel bolts that can be properly tempered, and you might want to
devise a way of installing a light spring to hold the jaws open.

David L. Huffman


#15
... But if you're not going to be doing a lot of this, I have a
"down and dirty" quick method. 

Thank you David! This one is do-able for me right now --I even have a
handy gizmo for my Sherline lathe that will let me cut ball-shaped
heads on the bolts-- and Lee Valley Tools (leevalley.com) has an
excellent supply of old strap hinges. I owe you a beer (read
"beverage of your choice") for this one.

Cheers,
Trevor F.
in The City of Light
www.touchmetal.com


#16

David,

What a neat trick! Wow. I can see other applications. Get hardenable
bolts, texture them, harden, and install. Double sided texturing!
Detail! (I try to keep the students from doing this to the hammers
and anvil) Guess I will hit the hardware store on the way home
tonight.

Thanks.

Bill Churlik
@Bill_Churlik
www.earthspeakarts.com