Back to Ganoksin | FAQ | Contact

Firescale


#1

It pay to read and follow instructions. Previous memo did not
quite do it as requested.

My notes are filed somewhere so well can’t find them. I will and
let you know the composition of bobbing compound.

Bobbing compound is a rapid cutting material when used with a
bristle brush. The brush is "extra-stiff horsehair bristle"
purchased from Indian Jewelers Supply Company, 3 1/2 inch
diameter, with three rows of bristles. The bobbing compound will
not stay on the brush too well so it needs to be replaced often
to be effective. I wash in laundry detergent and water to
which is added a few drops of house-hold ammonia. Old tooth
brushes do a great job. I then polish with zam and a cotton
wheel. If any Fire scale is still present this routine will
show it immediately. Then its back to the zam and a repeat of
the entire process. The piece sometimes get a rouge going
over.

Problem I now have is that the piece is heavily textured and the
bobbing compound will remove the details. Tried a little nitric
acid and was not too pleased with the results.

Tried the remove Firescale with ferric chloride since it is used
as a copper etchant and can be readily purchased at any Radio
Shack. Twas a good idea but didn’t work. It did make the
silver a dirty dark brown so all was not a total waste of time
(funny).

One of my texts say Firescale is acceptable as an indications of
being hand made. Another says firescale is acceptable if the
whole piece shows a uniform firescale. Now that is a great
idea.

My introduction bombed

I am Bill Eisenberg
Ginkgo Designs
E-mail: @WILLIAM_I_EISENBERG
San Diego County in Sunny California

I work mainly in silver. I delve in the Japanese alloys and make
my own. I do chasing and repousse’ in the Japanese style. I
studied with J. Gertner, A. Lugo and with friend and mentor J.
Harr. Have sold at street fairs and am currently in a local
gallery. Retired so I can play and experiment a bit.


#2

snip

It pay to read and follow instructions. Previous memo did not
quite do it as requested.
My notes are filed somewhere so well can’t find them. I will and
let you know the composition of bobbing compound.
Bobbing compound is a rapid cutting material when used with a
bristle brush. The brush is "extra-stiff horsehair bristle"
purchased from Indian Jewelers Supply Company, 3 1/2 inch
diameter, with three rows of bristles. The bobbing compound will
Snip

Bill,

Talked to Cynthia on this and this is what she uses and it sure
works for me:

  1. It is imparitive to have the entire piece absolutely clean
    and oil free. Not necessarily polished but if in the final
    finished stages of work, a polish will come through the process
    just fine. To clean, use a good long soak in the pickel, then
    clean in the ultra sonic using straight or diluted to 50/50
    Parsons Sudsy Ammonia (If you don’t have the ultra sonic unit,
    soak the piece in the ammonia solution and brush it a couple of
    times during the soak) and rinse in clean water. Once cleaned
    and ready for the soldering, DO NOT TOUCH THE PIECE(S) WITH YOUR
    FINGERS, USE TWEESERS, as ANY oil on the silver, when heated, is
    a major cause of the scale.

  2. Use a boric acid powder (not crystals)/denatured alcohol
    (50/50) mixture and cover the ENTIRE PIECE. It will not go into
    solution so you must stir this when using it. Just mix up the
    powder and alcohol and brush it on all over the entire piece and
    on all sides and light it on fire. This will make a very light
    coat of boric acid over the entire surface.

  3. Next coat the entire piece with a thin coat of the Dandy
    Flux, dry the Dandy Flux with a slow heating (to drive off the
    water), then go to work.

  4. When finished soldering, the piece goes directly into the
    pickel from the soldering board…HOT.

We basically have NO scale to deal with using this method and if
there is any at all, it is very superfical. If you have a case
of scale, it can often be reduced if not cleared up by cleaning,
boric acid coating, thinned flux coating and heating the piece to
hot enought to make the flux liquify and flow and dropping the
piece directly into the pickel.

I havn’t really been checking the fire scale thread going on
here these past days but happened to open your post and thought I
would add our 2 cents of experience (really Cynthias many years
of experience!). Hope I didn’t go over info already posted, and
I hope this might help you and or others.

John and Cynthia/MidLife Crisis Enterprises
Maiden Metals/C. T. Designs/ Bloomin’ Wax Works. etc. No one is
guaranteed happiness. Life just

PO BX 44, Philo, Ca 95466
gives each person time and space. It is
Ph 707-895-2635 FAX 707-895-9332 up to us to
fill it with joy.


#3
Talked to Cynthia on this and this is what she uses and it sure
works for me:

Sender: owner-orchid
Precedence: bulk

John/Cynthia: you have NO firescale? Is this with only one
soldering operation? I haven’t found anything that will prevent
firescale 100% when doing 15 soldering operations on a piece.
Pripps will prevent firescale for 2 or 3 operations but after
that it always starts to build…Dave
http://www.opendoor.com/stephensdesign/crystalguy.html Crystalguy
Art Jewelry, Magical Art Jewelry for the Enlightened Mind


#4

…Next coat the entire piece with a thin coat of the Dandy Flux…

I bought a small bottle of Dandy Flux a couple years back when
at Arrowmont in Gatlinburg, TN, and have looked in my catalogs to
purchase more, but have not been able to find it. Anyone know
who carries it?

Laurie


#5
 Bobbing compound is a rapid cutting material when used with a
bristle brush. The brush is "extra-stiff horsehair bristle"
purchased from Indian Jewelers Supply Company, 3 1/2 inch
diameter, with three rows of bristles.  The bobbing compound
will not stay on the brush too well so it needs to be replaced
often to be effective.  I wash in  laundry detergent and water
to which is added a few drops of house-hold ammonia.  Old tooth
brushes do a great job.   I then polish with zam and a cotton
wheel.  If any Fire scale is still present this routine will
show it immediately.  Then its back to the zam and a repeat of
the entire process.  The piece  sometimes get a rouge going
over. 

H m m m, I use Bobbing compound with a Yellow treated muslin
wheel (Yellow treat with what, I’m not sure . … ) Yes, it does
remove scratches. I’ve never tried a brush (wheel) of anysort.
Would that remove a lot of detail, or would it just remove the
fire scale??? Thanks for any advice.


#6

Aggressively applied bobbing compound will remove very fine
details. My mentor produces the finest finished silver ever
seen, uses the bobbing compound bristle brush/ Zam combination.
It does remove firescale.

My Orchid inputs seem to be going astray and getting lost in the
ether. I hope i’m a better silversmith than computersmith.

Bill
@WILLIAM_I_EISENBERG


#7

H m m m, I use Bobbing compound with a Yellow treated muslin
wheel (Yellow treat with what, I’m not sure . … ) Yes, it does
remove scratches. I’ve never tried a brush (wheel) of anysort.
Would that remove a lot of detail, or would it just remove the
fire scale??? Thanks for any advice.

Bobbing compound is recommended for use with brushed, since it
tends to adhere to them better than tripoli. Brushes disappear
very quickly if they are not kept charged with compound. They
tend to polish with less metal removal (ergo, less detail
removal) than muslin wheels. They also get into places that
muslin won’t.

Sharon Ziemek


#8

Laurie. Indian Jeweler’s supply carries either handy or dandy
flux (same thing as far as I can tell). I love the stuff, it
works great and cleans up easily. BTW, someone once said IJS is on
the net. Does anyone have the e-dress?


#9

H m m m, I use Bobbing compound with a Yellow treated muslin
wheel (Yellow treat with what, I’m not sure . … ) Yes, it does
remove scratches. I’ve never tried a brush (wheel) of anysort.
Would that remove a lot of detail, or would it just remove the
fire scale??? Thanks for any advice.

Depending upon how they are handled, a brush can actually
sharpen some detail. They can also be shaped by dressing them
with a hot sheet of metal.

Dick Caverly


#10

I bought a small bottle of Dandy Flux a couple years back when
at Arrowmont in Gatlinburg, TN, and have looked in my catalogs to
purchase more, but have not been able to find it. Anyone know
who carries it?

SWEST carries it.

John and Cynthia/MidLife Crisis Enterprises
Maiden Metals/C. T. Designs/ Bloomin’ Wax Works. etc. No one is
guaranteed happiness. Life just

PO BX 44, Philo, Ca 95466
gives each person time and space. It is
Ph 707-895-2635 FAX 707-895-9332 up to us to
fill it with joy.


#11
Next coat the entire piece with a thin coat of the Dandy
Flux... Indian Jeweler's Supply carries either Handy or Dandy
Flux (same thing as far as I can  tell).  I love the stuff, it
works great and cleans up easily. BTW, someone once said IJS
is on the net.  Does anyone have the e-dress?

Thanks so much for answering my inquiry. I mistakenly asked
where I can get Dandy, but really looking for Dandix, as the one
I have is almost finished. Handy, Dandy and Dandix are all paste
fluxes, but Dandix is the only one that’s a non-fluoride silver
solder flux. Thanks to your reply, I called Indian Jeweler’s
Supply and they do carry Dandix. However, the girl told me it
contained fluorides, but I’m looking at the jar I have in my
Studio and it says non-fluoride. She also said they were NOT on
the net. Their 800 # is 1-800-545-6540.

Laurie


#12
  Depending upon how they are handled, a brush can actually
sharpen some detail. They can also be shaped by dressing them
with a hot sheet of metal.

I’d appreciate a detailed description of the method used. . .
please E-mail if you don’t want to post it publically.

Thank you!


#13
    Laurie. Indian Jeweler's supply carries either handy or
dandy flux (same thing as far as I can tell). I love the
stuff, it works great and cleans up easily. BTW, someone once
said IJS is on the net. Does anyone have the e-dress?

I was the one who mentioned IJS was on the net, yet when I went
back to look for it, I could NOT find it. May have only thought
it was there??? Their 800 number is: 1-800-545-6540 . . .
There is a minimal charge ( I think $6.00 US) to get all their
catalogs sent.


#14

Dandy Flux? I know of dandix( flouride free) or Handy Flux.


#15

Dandy Flux? I know of dandix (flouride free) or Handy Flux.

Dandy Flux is a paste flux with fluorides (no, I’m not
mispelling fluorides), just like Handy Flux, and is sold by
SWEST. Therefore, of the three, Dandix, would be preferable.

Laurie


#16
 Brushes disappear very quickly if they are not kept charged
with compound.  They tend to polish with less metal removal
(ergo, less detail removal) than muslin wheels.  They also get
into places that muslin won't.

Sharon, I’m a big fan of brushes, as well. I think finishing to
a high polish is an art which should be learned in our field,
than it is up to us weather or not to use it or some sort of
matte finish or texture.

I find the only brushes that really work well in my flex shaft
are the 3/4 inch medium weight ones that are thick. They are
really expensive, (about $15 per dozen) but seem to work where
the light colored ones or the dark stiff ones won’t (charged with
tripoli) in removing firescale. The only place I’ve found that
carries these is Tidewater Lapidary here in Norfolk, VA (800)
255-1144. Wendy Newman


#17

…I find the only brushes that really work well in my flex shaft
are the 3/4 inch medium weight ones that are thick. They are
really expensive, (about $15 per dozen) but seem to work where
the light colored ones or the dark stiff ones won’t (charged with
tripoli) in removing firescale. The only place I’ve found that
carries these is Tidewater Lapidary here in Norfolk, VA (800)
255-1144. Wendy Newman

Thanks, Wendy,

I use the dark stiff ones with the bobbing compound, and I wish
I had something a little less stiff I could use with the tripoli
afterwards. I will defineately give them a try. Rio’s latest
catalog has a 3/4" medium brush listed which isn’t shown. I
wonder if they are the same?

Sharon Ziemek


#18

…I find the only brushes that really work well in my flex shaft
are the 3/4 inch medium weight ones that are thick. They are
really expensive, (about $15 per dozen) but seem to work where…

Gesswein sells small unmounted bristle brushes. I use the 3/4"
soft brushes and mount them on a small mandrel that has a screw.
I buy them by the gross which runs about $35.00.

Steven Brixner - Artist/Jeweler - San Diego, CA
mailto:brixner@compuserve.com
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/brixner


#19

I find it harder to polish silver to areally high lustre than
gold. Any tips?


#20

Laurie:

No, you’re not misspelling fluorides, you’re misspelling
misspelling. (Say that three times fast before your propane tank
leaks).