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Enameling Questions


#1

Anyone doing “patte de verre” or “resille sur verre”? My limited
knowledge of the patte de verre technique is that it involves use of
a glue mixed with powdered enamel glass, or frit. So here are the
questions: 1a. if some glue like substance is used in patte de verre;
is it hide glue, or can it be white or yellow household glue? 1b. do
the glue volatiles burn off sufficiently so as not leave a permanent
residue in the enameling furnace that would make the kiln unusable
for future enameling? 2a. is there a source of supply for glass
products suitable for engraving the low intaglio reliefs for
resille sur verre which will survive the enameling furnace? 2b. how
is the glass supported email en resille sur verre? Best Regards, Mark


#2

Morning Mark, I have done a small amount of Pate de verre. I use
wallpaper paste as the glue (“Shelley’s”, if you want the actual
brand name). It’s basically a starch paste. The glue should be
water-based (such as wood glue or the klyr-fire enamelling glue) so
that it burns out cleanly, leaving no residues. Hide glue should
burn clean but it is going to smell. I’m sorry that I do not know the
answers to your other quetions - I only vaguely remember the
technique you’re talking about :slight_smile: I hope the rest of the
helps. Eileen


#3

Hello Mark!

Anyone doing "patte de verre" or "resille sur verre"? 

I have dabbles with Cast Glass / Pate-De-Verre, but I am certainly
no expert! So mostly I am going to suggest some more expert
articles I’ve seen, as well as add some links that I have found on
the subject.

My limited knowledge of the patte de verre technique is that it
involves use of a glue mixed with powdered enamel glass, or frit. 

I believe that there are several methods one can use to achieve a
Pate-De-Verre project. Often an investment mold is used in the
process, and it can be created through the lost wax process or for
simple one sided designs by carving into or pressing into the
investment.

So here are the questions: >1a. if some glue like substance is used
in patte de verre; is it hide glue, or can it be white or yellow
household glue? >1b. do the glue volatiles burn off sufficiently so
as not leave a permanent residue in the enameling  furnace that
would make the kiln unusable for future enameling? 

I have attempted simple projects with investment & course frit,
enamel frit or 90 (coe) fusing glass fritt, but without the aid of
any glue or adhesives, so I am not sure which glass / adhesive
holding medium would burn out most cleanly. I might try Klyr-Fire,
the enamel holding medium I use in the cloisonne process, in my kiln
all the time to no ill effect. However I am not sure if it is strong
enough for what you are tying to do.

A website that specializes in supplies, products & on
Pate-De-Verre is:
http://www.fusionheadquarters.com/Pages/Pate-De-Verre.html Including
such items as… “Pate-de-Verre Glue”: Apparently a clean burning
glue to hold frit or pieces of glass in place until a heat bond has
been established. Their advertisement states that it can be used for
frit casting vertical walls without an interior mold or to hold
small pieces of glass in place. “Polyform Clay”: an easy working clay
that can be ‘heat cured’ for the production of multiple images.
“Hydroperm Investment”: a ‘one shot’ mold that is discarded when it
is removed from the glass casting.

An second site selling supplies for Pate-De-Verre is:
http://www.arrowsprings.com/html/fusing___pate_de_verre.html They
list…“DONNA’S FUSING GLUE AND SPRAY MEDIUM” The site states it is
"a thin glue for fusing and pate-de-verre that is used to lightly
hold small pieces of glass in place so that they do not move while
handling." They say “completely burns off with no residue if used
sparingly.”

As with all adhesive mediums in the enameling & the glass fusing
process I would imagine some experimentation would be necessary in
order to assess how much or little holding medium would produce the
proper effect. And that all holding mediums must probably be fully
dried before the firing/casting step. In the enameling process the
holding agents don’t seem to leave a residue negative to the kiln, I
would suppose that if you used a similar holding agent the kiln
would be safe.

I do have an issue of “Glass On Metal” Magazine, December 2000,
which has some pictures & a brief article on the technique, you can
see a picture of the issue & perhaps order it from Glass On Metal
online at:
http://www.glass-on-metal.com/current_issue/pastissues4.htm “Vol. 19,
No. 5, December 2000” "Pate-de-Verre - By Suzanne Stern"
http://www.glass-on-metal.com/images/covers/19-5.jpg

Or order the issue & probably supplies & books about Pate-De-Verre
from Thompson Enamels: http://www.thompsonenamel.com/ 650 Colfax
Avenue Bellevue, KY 41073 USA P.O. Box 310 Newport, KY 41072
USA Phone (859) 291-3800

A link to a website which has some on books about
Pate-De-Verre is GlassLibrary.Com / Glass Craftsman page:
http://www.glasscraftsman.com/gl_list.aspx?subject=4 Some books on
the subject are profiled, including the book “Pate-De-Verre And Cast
Glass” by Dan Fenton & Jim Kervin. With text on complex glassworking
technique of pate de verre/kiln casting of glass.
http://www.glasscraftsman.com/gl_product.aspx?id=HOT100 And the
book: “The Art & Technique of Pate de Verre” Which details the tools
for pate de verre and offers instructions on basic and advanced
techniques for shaping, firing and finishing glass objects.

Two “papers” on the techniques used by separate individuals are
profiled on this website “Glass Australia” :
http://www.glassaustralia.anu.edu.au/pate/intro.pate.html Katsuya
demonstrated his technique of Pate de verre using two slightly
different methods…
http://www.glassaustralia.anu.edu.au/pate/katsuya.pate.html Christina
kirks’ techniques in pate de verre…
http://www.glassaustralia.anu.edu.au/pate/kirk.pate.html

Another website of interest is “The Magazine for Stained Glass and
Decorative Art Glass” :
http://www.glassartmagazine.com/BackIssue/Jul-Aug94.asp

And a site describing another Pate-De-Verre process is:
http://www.warmglass.com/pate_de_verre.htm

Additionally if you go to this link for eNAMEL Online Newsletter:
http://enews.heywoodenamels.com and in the “Google” search bar type
in “Pate-De-Verre” check www. you will find literally hundreds of
sites that have something to do with the technique… no doubt you
will find endless amounts of there.

2a. is there a source of supply for glass products suitable for
engraving the low intaglio reliefs for resille sur verre which
will survive the enameling furnace? 

For some on “Enamel En Resille Sur Verre” / “Email En
Resille Sur Verre” you may also want to do a “Google” search for
supply sources, and “how to” articles, one place to start is in the
"Orchid Archives," there’s some on page link:
https://orchid.ganoksin.com/t/enamel-bits-en-resille

Perhaps books and supplies can be found at Thompson Enamel. Erica
Speel wrote about the technique in one of her books “Dictionary of
Enamelling.”

2b. how is the glass supported email en resille sur verre? Best
Regards, Mark 

Possibly mica or ceramic firing paper could be used in the support
of the glass?

Coral at Enamelworks Supply Co. ( 1022 NE 68th St. Settle WA 98115
1-206-525-9271 call for a catalog) ( 1-800-596-3257 ordering only)
might have some supplies & books on the subjects.

Very best of luck with your projects!
Best Regards & Peace!
Sharon Scalise
@Ornamental_Creations
http://users.netconnect.com.au/~sscalise/


#4

For a detailed explanation of the ancient technique of email en
resille surverre, consult Erika Speel’s Dictionary of Enameling,
available from Thompson Enamel. If I recall correctly the holding
agent (glue), was agar, which would burn off cleanly in the kiln.
However, for correct informati on consult Speel’s Dictionary. Alma


#5

Try PVA (polyvinylacetate) white Elmers glue. It would be best to
thin as much as possible with water and still have it bind the
particles. It will burn out without showing. jesse


#6

Erika Speel’s dictionary of Enameling does indeed have a description
of “en resille” enameling…in fact the only one that I have seen
of any depth., but it is not a “how to” …just a description.
The technique is one that has been reproduced sucessfully in modern
times by only one artist: Margaret Craver, who studied it
extensively, both by experimentatin and by viewing, close hand, the
only few extant examples that exist (in museums). Ms. Craver is now
in her mid nineties and is one of the most revered

jeweler/silversmith/enamelists in the history of 20th century
metalwork. She is credited with bringing the art and craft of
silversmithing into the revival that took place in this country
among craftsmen before World War II. I believe she will be
interviewed as part of a survey the history of 20th century
enameling that will result in exhibit at the Long Beach Museum of
Art. Her work may be found in major museums, including the Art
Institute of Chicago and the Boston Museum of Fine Arts. The last I
knew, there was a piece of her “en resille” work at Mobilia Gallery
in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Elizabeth McDevitt


#7

Hi Mark,

Much like my excruciatingly slow pursuit of micro mosaic creation, I
also am quite interested in pate de verre. A good book explaining
the process (with photos and diagrams – even phase diagrams) is
"Pate de Verre and Kiln Casting of Glass" by Jim Kervin and Dan
Fenton.

The binders used can be as simple as plain water. Binders that are
used in glass painting, pottery glazes, or enameling can be used.
Klyr-Fire works. Supposedly diluted Knox gelatin works as well.

These types of binders burn clear, and Klyr-Fire is made for
enameling use, so the kiln is just fine for future enameling.

As for the “resille sur verre”, an old Orchid post said:

   To Richard. According to the "Dictionary of Enamelling"
compiled by Erica Speel the full name of this technique is Email en
resille sur verre. She defines it as "Enamel fused into sunken
goldlined cells or incisions in a medallion of trenslucent glass,
ground and polished to a smooth surface." It seems this is or was a
decorative technique in use in the 17th. century for small items
such as watch cases and jewlery. However some ancient Greek and
Roman examples have been catalogued. Cavaties or depressions are
somehow formed in thin pieces of glass. These cavaties are lined
with gold foil and filled with enamel. As you can imagine firing
this presents quite a challange. The piece must be put into a cold
kiln, brought to firing temp. and then allowed to come down slowly
to room temperature. For those who want to know just about
everything about enamelling I recommend Erica Speel Dictionary
published by Ashgate Publishing Co. and obtainable through Thompson
Enamel Co.   Hannah in Seattle. 

I am not familiar with the second technique, but by the above
description, it sounds like you would have to either cut or cast the
primary glass, line the depressions with gold foil, then use lower
temperature enamels to fill the voids (look at very “soft” enamels),
so that the primary glass remains intact. Or, I suppose you could
go the other way, and create the “jewels” first, then cast your
glass around them pate de verre style. The surface gets ground and
polished anyway…

I’ll be interested in reading all of the responses to your post.
Hopefully there are some practitioners out there.

Good Luck!
–Terri


#8

For the “resille sur verre” process you would grind or sandblast
the pockets, add the gold foil, and use an enamel with an expansion
coefficient suitable for the typeglass being used. Thompson makes
makes a medium temperature - low expansion enamel series for window
( float glass) . And a high temperature - medium expanion series
or the Bulsseye and spectrum 90 coeficient art glasses. I suggest
you find a course in glass fusing and learn thais process. This is
a little different than enameling on metal because the heatup and
cooling time-temperature is critical for success.

jesse