Collecting credit card info

Jewelry Discussion
21

Brenda,

I, too, ask for phone numbers when I get a credit card at a show.
Most of my transactions are with plastic, so I have to accept them,
but as I also don’t do a LOT of shows, it doens’t make sense at this
time to invest in the electronic setup, especially when there’s
something that’s fine as a substitute. I use ProPay, and I either
call them in by phone at the time (if it’s not too hectic and if the
amount is high), or later at a slower time, or do it on the computer
when I get home. At my last show, I didn’t bother calling any in at
the time, and at my next show I don’t think I’ll have cell service (I
hadn’t ever seen anyone there that did), so I won’t even have the
phone-in option. At any rate, when I take a card, I politely ask if I
may have their phone number just in case there are any problems, you
never know, make it sound very casual. I’ve never had anyone bristle
at it, although I have had a couple people confirm that I wasn’t
going to give that info out to anyone else. I write the phone number
on the regular receipt, not the charge receipt. I also collect the
zip, as ProPay asks for it, and I usually write that on the regular
receipt, too, so that info also isn’t with the card info. I’ve never
had a problem getting the zip from anyone, but at my last show I
forgot to ask for it from my first customer, and I later discovered
that I was able to enter my own zip & it went through, just didn’t
have the “zip confirmation”. I hadn’t gotten the phone number,
either, so I couldn’t have gotten it later. Fortunately it wasn’t a
large sale, but also fortunately it worked just fine. Next time I’ll
know, though, if they don’t want to give it to me, I don’t REALLY
need it. I’d still hope to get a phone number, though. You never know
if there could be some sort of flukey problem, not suspecting them of
ill will, there could just be some random thing go wrong & I need to
contact them. At a previous show, I was glad I did, as I accidentally
accepted a Discover card, and I wasn’t set up for those. My fault,
obviously, but it did happen, and I was able to get another card
number from them. Now I’m set up for all cards, so that’s no longer a
problem.

I’m sorry you’re having trouble getting the info all the time. I’m
not sure how you’re asking, but maybe try harder to make it sound
like it’s possibly in their interest, too? A very casual request?
Maybe if they object to giving you all of that info, see if you can’t
just get one part, start with the phone number?

Lisa
Designs by Lisa Gallagher

22

folks there is this thing called zaba search…I urge everyone to
check it out…your life stories are there on the web for anyone to
look at, and steal,any time any day any country…even your grandma’s
is there! disturbing is putting it mildly,and you may
request that they immediately remove your name from their engine…

RER

23

The critical thing is to talk to your merchant bank (I have no idea
how paypal,etc. works). Make sure you understand their requirements.
They all have requirements that you must abide by. Merchant banks
giveth and also taketh away. They are the final arbiter.

I used to accept AmEx until a dispute concerning a charge. The upshot
was that they told me by letter that any future dispute or question
would result in a charge back without input by me. Needless to say I
no longer accept AmEx.

KPK

24 
folks there is this thing called zaba search..I urge everyone to
check it out..your life stories are there on the web for anyone to
look at

There are many search engines out there that will do the same thing,
this is only one. Good luck on trying to get them all cleared.

Terry

25 
your life stories are there on the web for anyone to look at

Oh yes, it is VERY disturbing but… there are other search engines
out there that carry the same info: White Pages; Yellow Pages;
Intellius; ad infinitum. Not sure how you would manage to get the
info removed, since all of these are search engines that rarely have
a “contact us” number - I believe Intellius does - Zabasearch does
not.

Mr. Rourke, if you know a way to get this info removed from all such
sites with one request, please let us know.

The search engines are routinely not the source of the
They simply gather from other sites. So you have to find
the originating sites and get them to remove it. Good luck.

Then if you have done any business transactions, have a credit card,
have a mortgage, etc. most of that is generally available
in public records, so if any one is bent on finding out about you,
they can do it easily. Just no secure way to hide any more.

I had a friend in Texas who wanted to contact me, and with her
knowledge of the internet was able to find my email address quickly
and easily. In fact she told me she got my email address based on a
post I made to Orchid. It was okay since we had both moved and lost
contact but so surprising that Orchid was her way of finding me.

Perhaps it would be advised that Orchid not attach our names to our
email addresses, i.e. where in the heading it says "Owner Orchid on
behalf of “your name and your email address”. This just makes it very
easy to contact you. Hanuman - can anything be done about this?

I have nothing to hide and if someone is hell bent on finding me,
I’m sure they could do it easily using public records. Heck not too
long ago, the driver license bureau published all that
age, address, phone number etc. and it was public record. I think
since that time, they no longer do that, but then again, not really
sure.

So if you find your name in Zabasearch, you can be pretty sure it is
on a dozen other such search engines. Me, I’m not gonna worry myself
to death over this. It is annoying, but almost impossible to remain
incognito in today’s world. You can use caution about where you give
out any personal but inasmuch as so many places require
social security numbers, the option of remaining totally private
doesn’t exist any more.

If only they tracked the illegal and infamous as closely as they do
all the good people.

Kay

Rest assure that we do all we can to protect your privacy. Your
email address on the orchid archived are being masked with R13
encryption and are not visible to the public!

Hanuman

26 
The vendor needs the in the event there is a problem
with your credit card. In the years I have been doing business I =
have had a card fail twice. Once, I was able to call the buyer and
obtain another card number so the sale went through.

So, you didn’t actually complete the sale before checking the card?
That’s an entirely different situation. If someone orders goods
which are to be delivered at some future time, obviously you need
contact I order goods by mail from a very few trusted
vendors, and naturally they have addresses. A few of those also have
a business (not home) telephone number, but only if I have reason to
ask for a call to discuss an order. In nearly all cases, email is
preferable.

The other time, the number was disconnected and the account had
been closed for some time. Never could get hold of the woman and I
was out some money.

So the phone number didn’t help. It’s probably obvious that anyone
who is planning to cheat you is not likely to give you their real
phone number :slight_smile:

Stores ask for identification and/ or a phone number when you use
a credit card. It's the normal course of doing business.

Stores should ask for whatever their broker requires, no
more and no less. Personally, I never use credit cards. I use a
debit card, and you are entitled to either a pin number or a
signature, not both, and not anything else.

I have indeed had stores ask for more Most clerks that
I’ve encountered have been taught that “No” is an acceptable
response to such queries. Even medical establishments have learned to
key their records on something other than SSN.

Keep in mind that I’m only giving you the opinion of one consumer,
and probably not a typical one. Many people don’t seem to care how
much they give to anyone who asks. Make of it what you
will.

Apparently, some people are still operating in a non-real-time mode,
thereby increasing their own risk. I don’t know the economics, but
others in the thread have said that real-time methods are not that
expensive initially, and reduced charges (not to mention potential
chargebacks) pay for the equipment.

Al Balmer
Sun City, AZ

27

Donna,

Yes, I use it and like it very much for several reasons. One is that
I do shows very intermittently, so I only activate it (and only pay
the monthly fee - now $30 - for the months that I actually want to
use it).

Another is that I can truthfully tell my customers that I do not
store their credit cards and have no access to their full card
once the transaction is processed. I do input their full
addresses (which is used as part of the verification process as a
safeguard to them - haven’t had anyone object to that), and the
charge is immediately put through directly to my Paypal account.
Paypal’s receipt is very serviceable for customers; I print 2 copies
and have them sign one of them (which I retain). The transaction
rates are also very good, especially for someone like me that is so
intermittent.

Separately, I ask if I can put them on my mailing list and note that
fact in the transaction’s notes field. Later, I can pull all that
down to Excel and export to my Dymo labeler or email
program.

Note - to do this, I bring my laptop with me to shows and also bring
my little Canon Pixma printer (bluetooth capable, tiny, portable). At
most venues, I use my PDA’s data account (also bluetooth) as my modem
to the PC, so I have a secured line. At more venues, though, secured
wi-fi access is available (and you can also set up your laptop to be
secure through even an unsecured wi-fi network, with a very little
bit of knowledge or a friend who’s tech-handy.) In those cases, the
PDA portion of the connection isn’t necessary.

Best of all, I can accept all 4 cards (visa, mc, discover, and amex)
without any hassle. Also can do e-checks through the main paypal
interface (available because i have the internet connection already
set up).

It’s much less cumbersome than my old method of working and had very
little cost overhead to set up.

Karen Goeller

28

Hi Brenda. I do exactly as you do and have never had a problem with
getting all that info. If necessary, I just make a joke about not
calling them, or point out that my card processor requires that info,
and it ceases to be an issue.

But, especially, since I don’t have the reassurance of getting an
instant authorization, I simply would not take a card from someone
who wouldn’t give me that The customer is taking away my
piece, leaving only a signature on a scrap of paper behind with me.
Who’s trusting who? I still have never gotten burned, but I HAVE had
to make an earnest phone call or two to straighten out a problem.
Smile and be persistent!

Allan Mason

29

In my experience, when PHONE orders come in and I have to process a
credit card before sending that order, I have been required to know
the address, and sometimes even the phone number before the
transaction goes through - maybe this is only a requirement for
merchants in Ohio?

30 
BTW. More and more I am asked to present a drivers license when
using my credit card to purchase something. Maybe it's my long
hair and beard or does everyone get their ID checked?

This should be standard practice to verify that you are the owner of
the card you’re using. They usually don’t write the info down, but
they should be checking it. When they remember to do so, I thank
them; when they don’t, I offer it.

Never occurred to me it had anything to do with my beard…

margery epstein

31

Daniel,

Actually you do need this when you take a credit card.
No matter what the little machine says about an approval code, it
is only as up to date as the credit card thefts that took place a
week or so ago.

Do you think that if was using a stolen credit card I would give you
my true address? If I had stolen it during a break in to a house I
would most likely have enough intelligence to give you that address,
if not I’d make one up. How could you be sure that the address you
got matched the card? I’m afraid I’m one of the people who regard
credit cards as just another security risk and try to use them as
little as possible. I will also only ever reveal the bare minimum
to any company I buy from on line - mainly because I
will not trust their ability to protect that Only a few
weeks ago there was a news story over here about a bank employee who
had lost his laptop computer with the details of thousands of
customers on it (left it on a train or something) - name, address,
account numbers, credit worthiness etc. If even a bank can’t be
trusted to keep such safe, what chance a retailer’s
computer which is probably open to every hacker on the internet??

Best wishes,
Ian
Ian W. Wright
Sheffield UK

32 
I do shows very intermittently, so I only activate it (and only
pay the monthly fee - now $30 - for the months that I actually want
to use it).

FYI-- I use my local bank (Chase) and my monthly fee is $7.50. So I
pay the same for all year as you do for three months.

Noel

33 
folks there is this thing called zaba search..I urge everyone to
check it out..your life stories are there on the web for anyone to
look at, and steal,any time any day any country..

Like most (all?) such sites, they provide limited basic
unless you pay for more. That includes name, addresses on public
record, and phone numbers. Bad enough, but the same is
available from the phone book and county recorders’ websites.

It’s not quite as bad as allowing a vendor to automatically build a
targeted database of personal to either use himself or
sell to other people who are eager to know, for example, what people
in a certain area have bought high-end jewelry.

even your grandma's is there!

Actually, it isn’t. Neither of them. Neither are my grandfathers :slight_smile:
They have no listing for my mother, and only one listing for my
father. I presume it’s him, though the address and phone are for a
sister, where he never lived.

Al Balmer
Sun City, AZ

34 
BTW. More and more I am asked to present a drivers license when
using my credit card to purchase something. Maybe it's my long hair
and beard or does everyone get their ID checked?

It’s easier to get a fake driver’s license than a fake credit card,
and less likely that any one will know. Do you call the state motor
vehicle office to verify it? OTOH, most credit cards are checked
instantly during use.

In any case, one does not have to be the “owner” of a card to be an
authorized user. As a business owner, I suppose you can refuse to
sell to a 16 year old whose father has loaned her his card for her
birthday, but it’s perfectly legal.

They usually don't write the info down,

My observation is that they usually do write the down.
In some cases, they even swipe the driver’s license, entering any
available directly into their database. (Wal-Mart claims
they don’t keep the but who knows?)

but they should be checking it. When they remember to do so, I
thank them; when they don't, I offer it.

That offer would make me wonder what you were up to :slight_smile: Don’t most
credit cards now have a picture? As I mentioned, fake driver’s
licenses, with pictures, are readily available.

Never occurred to me it had anything to do with my beard...

Well, no wonder they’re suspicious!

Al Balmer
Sun City, AZ

35

I was advised by my card issuer after an instance of identity theft
to sign the back of my card “Photo ID Required” with my signature.
Even with that, I’m amazed how many places don’t ask for ID… I
gently point out to them that there’s a reason behind that notation
– their protection against chargebacks and my protection against
fraudulent use. And I always thank those who DO ask.

I do check the signature on the back of the card against the
signature on the receipt. It’s not always enough just to know the
billing zip code of the card. Of course, my favorite card is the one
with my picture on the back. I feel comfortable that it would be much
harder to fraudulently use that one - if people even glance at the
back they can tell that it’s my card.

Karen Goeller

36

Ian,

Do you think that if was using a stolen credit card I would give
you my true address?

Well no (except keep reading the second part of this post), but if
I’m suspicious of someone I will call in for an authorization and
give them a code 10 to look a little more closely at the transaction.
Checking the address at that point becomes mandatory and a part of
the transaction. If I am requested by the machine (for whatever
reason) to call in for authorization (something that happens fairly
frequently in my price range) an address on the card user (along with
a picture id with all of your address is almost always
required from the operators you are dealing with. In view of this
it’s simply easier to make sure that you have all of the information
to begin with. It also acts as somewhat of a deterrent to criminals
(the idea about preventing all criminal acts is to make everything as
difficult as possible for them, whatever that requires). How easily
someone provides you with is often an indication of how
honest they are. While I understand the need for privacy as well as
the next guy when you walk into my store and use anything other than
hard, cold cash you’d better be prepared to give me some personal
so I feel safe in the transaction. For that matter when
you hand over cash you’d better be prepared, too, as the US
government has forced retailers to track closely any large cash
transactions (ostensibly for anti terrorism reasons).

Second part of this post: So you think a criminal won’t give his
real address? I had a guy come into my store just last summer who
made a bizarre attempt to purchase first a loose diamond and then
when I wouldn’t do that a diamond ring. All of his behavior put us on
high alert. When he pulled the credit card out of a shirt pocket
(incidentally this is one of the warning signs for bad credit
cards—almost all legitimate users pull them out of a wallet) we
immediately asked for a picture id. He pulled out a Florida driver’s
license with a Massachusetts address on it (no states issue licenses
with out of state addresses). So we refused the sale. The guy left
and the next day we called the Secret Service (for those Americans
on Orchid it’s the Secret Service who handles most credit card
fraud). The agent we talked to was able to track the guy down using
both the address and phone number he had given us. He had altered
only the street number (not the name) and one number on his phone
number and had changed one letter in his last name. And yes he was in
fact running credit card scams. Criminals are generally stupid.
That’s just a fact of life.

Daniel R. Spirer, G.G.
Daniel R. Spirer Jewelers, LLC
1780 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02140

37

In this discussion of credit cards and checking IDs - Remember to
check your merchant agreement as what you are allowed to do.

From VISA rule for merchants
http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf
page 29 - Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking
for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of
acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a
purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID. Visa
believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular
card acceptance procedures.

MasterCard and American Express also have their rules for merchants.

Norman

38

My credit card processor requires the full address, not just zip
code. If the address the customer provides doesn’t match what the
card issuer has on file then the transaction is declined. So giving
me a credit card with a false address won’t work. And if you move a
lot (as we did for years) it can be a pain, if the card address
didn’t update in a timely manner.

Don't most credit cards now have a picture?

And none of my credit cards have my picture on them, nor do my
husband’s, MIL’s, FIL’s or parents’.

Michelle

39 
In this discussion of credit cards and checking IDs - Remember to
check your merchant agreement as what you are allowed to do.

That’s pretty unambiguous. Incidentally, Visa recently censured the
Flying J fuel company because they were accepting Visa at auto pumps
but not at truck pumps. They do enforce their rules.

Al Balmer
Sun City, AZ

40

In my past life in retail managment on Madison Avenue I was the
president of the Madison Avenue Merchants Association and one of the
many things we did for our members was run “Security” workshops for
the staff. These had to do with how to handle shoplifting, how to
prevent theft, and credit card fraud. Pay attention to the signature
match on the back, if it does not match ask for a photo ID…usually
a thief will say their wallet is in the car and they need to go out
and get it, if this happens try to keep the card and then call the
card company to find out if it was reported stolen…If you return a
stolen card to the card company you will receive a “reward” used to
be $35 per card but that was ten years ago and t is probably alot
more now. I used to get alot of stolen cards in my store around the
Holidays and would make a couple hundred dollars extra just on them!
PS, the employee that caught the card gets the reward. Some signs of
possible use of a stolen card are…customer makes a purchase really
quickly and then if the charge goes through will add on more,
customer will walk into the shop with another person pick out
something expensive and then the person with them will pretend to be
rushing or will try to confuse the sales person so that they are not
so attentive, I had men using cards with women’s names on them that
were foreign names that they did not realize were female. By the way
it is not legal to use a card if it does not have your name on it or
your signature on the back as a cosigner on the account and the card
company will not honor a charge if it is challenged and you have not
checked the signature. If a wife says it is her husband’s card but
her signature is not on it ask for another form of payment of for
her to have him come by to use it…you would be amazed what women
going through a divorce will charge up on the spouses card, this
probably goes both ways, LOL! Last year I bought a Norit 8000 and
have not yet had it work wirelessly at any venue I have done a show
at so I have to enter in when I get back to the hotel or home. I
always ask for contact info and have never had anyone refuse to give
it when I explain that I cannot process at the show. Same goes for
taking a check…

Be alert, be friendly, be successful
Beth McElhiney
(in the midst of my busy season here on Marthas Vineyard)