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Cheap nitric acid


#1

Was: Gave a quote for a ring

Why would anyone buy metals from a dealer? 7 lb bottle of nitric
acid $25 

Paf, where can we buy nitric acid for this price? thank you


#2

dry nitric acid can be had for less than 2 bucks an lb. . rer


#3

Greenway Chemical in Knoxville, TN
The actual price is $31.50 for 7lb. of reagent grade

Paf Dvorak


#4
dry nitric acid can be had for less than 2 bucks an lb. rer 

A little more info please. .

WHAT is DRY nitric acid? WHERE can it be bought?

Thanks!


#5
WHAT is DRY nitric acid? WHERE can it be bought? 

i buy dry muriatic acid. its cheaper than nitric solutions and
doesn’t have all the storage and vapour hazards of a liquid nitric
solution. It can be had by the 55 gal. drum for under 100 bucks + a
deposit on the drum ( 150 dollars or thereabout, funny the drum is
more than the chemical)… rer


#6

WHAT is DRY nitric acid? WHERE can it be bought?

i buy dry muriatic acid. 

R. E.'s language is a bit confusing, I think. There is no such thing
as “dry nitric acid” or muriatic, either. Or sulfuric, forthat
matter. All of those acids are gases dissolved in water, thoughthey
aren’t necessarily made that way. Evaporate them and there will be
nothing left - water vapor and hydrogen chloride gas. There’s nothing
solid in there to be “dry nitric acid”. Now, what you CAN have is
"acidic salts" - sodium bisulphate, which is Ph Down and Sparex #2,
is an acidic salt of sulfuric acid. When it’s put into water it
ionizes in a way that gives many of the properties of the acid, and
there are nitric and chloride salts that do the same. But literally
speaking there is no such thing as “dry nitric acid” because nitric
acid is always a liquid. Just to clarify.


#7

WHAT is DRY nitric acid? WHERE can it be bought?

i buy dry muriatic acid. its cheaper than nitric solutions and
doesn't have all the storage and vapour hazards of a liquid nitric
solution. 

Muriatic acid is hydrochloric acid (HCL). It is not nitric acid.
‘Dry muriatic acid’ will not become nitric acid when hydrated, has
nothing to do with nitric acid. If someone specifically needs nitric
acid, say to etch silver, then muriatic acid will do nothing for
them.

Neil A.


#8

No I am not talking about pHdown !!!

When I post something I am certain what i’m posting- and this has
happened before! HNO3 is Nitric acid. I buy that for many operations
and applications in the studio. I have pH down too- a different
pickle entirely. I buy Anhydrous Nitric Acid- its dry, looks like
citric acid crystals, comes in a heavy duty plastic bag with another
bag of brown paper outside of it and a twist tie to close it! It
clearly says Nitric Acid - Caution Corrosive on the paper label the
Lapidary shop sticks on it it, and its listed as HNO3 right after the
name. and works as well as any concentration of liquid
nitric/muriatic acid i can buy (well, some super high concentrations
are unnecessary for jewelry making purposes).

For the record Muriatic acid means the salt of an acid- Hydrochloric
acid is Muriatic acid. The label on the Muriatic acid I buy at at
home stores says it contains 98.0% Sulfuric Acid - the rest inert
ingredients, and another Nitric acid I buy is Nitratine either a 325
mesh or 200 mesh granule is less than 7 dollars a pound. It is
Nitric acid (HNO3),+sodium nitrate (NaNO3)+ salt petre (sodium
nitrate is another name for it) - It works as well if not better than
the high priced reagent grade Nitric Acid solutions and is no where
near as dangerous if not stored in glass.

I know quite a bit about chemistry and chemicals. What most people
don’t realise is that different chemicals have many common names and
they differ from country to country, and salts of the
compound/chemical are often as good if not safer to use and store
than some reagent grade of something at 10 times the price and
dangerous if you don’t know what you’re doing- all work the same as
the more expensive reagent grades of “x”…

For Orchid purposes I always check myself when talking about
chemicals- as the thread when I wrote sodium bisulfite instead of
bisulfate was ridiculous- evryone contesting a simple spelling error
knew exactly what i ws talking about in the first place so in my
opinion it was largely unnecessary and the point was pHdown had not
been mentioned on Orchid before I did about 8 years or more ago- as
I checked the archive as it was then! So i was trying to save people
the aggravation of Krohn’s quality dilution- and cleaning up the goo
thier new formulation causes. In fact I was also warning people that
Krohn’s owners were most unwilling to discuss the product at first
until I told them their option was for me to post everywhere there
was a jeweler’s site that pool ph down was a far cheaper alternative-
his ears pricked up then and he was still paranoid I was out to
"steal" his formula.

I have totally stopped buying anything Krohn makes after that
conversation. One would think a manufacturer would be willing, when
printing their phone number on the packaging to speak with customers
in a normal businesslike tone -particularly when I had recently (at
that time) just bought a year’s supply- a 55 gal. drum of the New
Formula and was far from happy with the additive that caused that
slick of brown sludge in 5 pickle pots on student’s benches. It had
never happened before and I wanted to know what was going on. Sodium
Bisulfite is cheap to begin with- Krohn simply resells it with their
own additive diluent ingredient. pH Down for pools is 93% Sodium
Bisulphite, Sparex is also at 93% active ingredient. Why pay more?

in the case of say, Sparex, the pool additive pH down works better
than Krohn’s product since they began adding reclaimed sludge from
water treatment plants into the mixture creating the brown clay-like
sludge that rises to the top of a new batch of their product. It is
far cheaper to buy the pool chemical than Sparex brand from a jewelry
supply vendor.

Back to acids though: At home stores Sulfuric acid can be got in the
plumbing section very inexpensively- the thing is its not designed
to be stored in the plastic they package it in for any period of
time- so there’s the issue of decanting it into glass or chemical
safe bottles. with appropriate liners (Uline though pricey is one
example of a packaging seller with chem safe options).

In truth Hydroiodic Acid (sometimes called Hydriodic acid) can be
used for the same things Nitric acid can be used for, or Hydrochloric
acid is also a good substitute. Hydroidic acid when mixed with water
becomes hydrochloric acid- all are considered “Strong Acids” in
chemistry. All have virtually the same results as buying a reagent
grade of liquid Nitric Acid, but all come in granular or micron sized
particles and are far safer to store for long periods as MOST small
studios don’t need to keep a vat of Nitric Acid mixed up all the
time!

Further, Most novices, and many experienced jewelers don’t realise
that hydrochloric acid or Hhydroiodic acid work as well as Nitric
acid at a fraction of the cost, are more available than a solution
form of Nitric acid which in some places one needs a license to buy
or possess. And that even Potassium Nitrate(KNO3) works as a common
heat treatment assistant in metalworking. It works in post
neutralization, then a washing as a dip to allow high gauges (30 +)
to become as strong as say a 22- 24 G sheet of fine silver or gold
respectively.(, or as a quench if you have made an ingot or wire, and
want to anneal and continue on to roll out some heat treatable wire
or sheet).

chemistry in the small studio is a subject MOST schools never touch
on but should. And for those of you that question anyone’s jargon,
you may want to check your facts first and then argue your point if
you are still inclined to do it. I understand some haven’t got a
chemistry background to draw on only relying on what you have learned
to this point in your careers as a metalworker, but for some of us on
Orchid that have a chemistry background perhaps you could A) either
learn something new, or B) save some money periodically or learn
about storage of chemicals in order to not only reduce your
homeowners insurance rates (provided your insurer knows you are
storing chemicals) if you have a studio in the home or attached to it
and a rider on it, but have that is useful to pass onto
students you may take on if you are not technically a school. I have
students, many of which need to save money every way they can to buy
raw materials and mill products in high karat gold that they want to
learn on- and since I refuse to subsidise their metals consumption,
they are totally responsible for paying for their metals before
tuition or class fees if it is a workshop etc. (I have gotten stuck
before giving some latitude to students that are motivated and
committed but that really can’t afford to be taking up the art in
the first place and since hurricane katrina wiped me out entirely i
have gone through periods of not being able to afford my own metals
without having a net 30 account as a safety net), and even then it
was right about the time metals went from $265 USD an oz for gold up
to $600 then jumped to over $1200 in a year’s time. If it weasn’t for
a few generous, working Orchid jewelers and metal artists I would
literally be homeless today- sure the house still isn’t repaired, but
at least I can pay the taxes to keep it. So I understand needing to
save money at this craft, art and science more than most people -
particularly those that don’t have to worry about money at all. I
just had another hurricane affect me in September of this year, which
made some repairs even more urgent, but I choose to buy silver over a
window or some flooring to replace what i had just replaced a couple
of years ago, but was ruined -again- this hurricane season, but more
importantly to engage in my passion which is making one-off art/metal
jewelry and teaching truly passionate committed students.

In teaching students or posting to orchid I am sure of what I write-
with the occasional spelling error- but my is accurate
and there are some on Orchid that will argue with me because for some
reason they delight, it seems, in doing just that even though they
are saying the exact same things I am saying. I will never understand
that concept or their ill intentions or why Hanuman allows it
(although the main offensive person hasn’t opted to challenge me in a
while so I have participated more). My main purpose here is to offer
the novices rudimentary that will save them time or money
or in some cases, steps to take to protect their interests- that is
all. As for the established jewelers making tons of money- what does
it matter to you if I am telling someone to be careful about how "x"
material is stored as some people are just not that conscious that
they are dealing with a potentially dangerous chemical. For one I
know what I am posting and why, and If i say I can get x chemical for
x amount 9 times out of 10 the poster looking for x will contact me
off list, I give them the address or otherwise tell them where to get
the chemical and its over. Those to which money isn’t an object will
continue to buy high priced ingredients that spell out HNO3, clearly
on the bottle for over a hundred bucks in whatever concentration they
have always bought and perhaps pay the hazardous materials up-charge
to get it here from Karl Fischer in Germany ! I prefer the cheaper
but most effective and safe method and to preserve what is left of my
house and studio- so dry chemicals work best for me It all comes down
to this*: *I f I have to use a half cup of additional hydrochloric
acid in solution to save 40 bucks over using Nitric Acid in solution
I’m going with the cheaper solution as both give the exact same
results on precious metals. rer


#9
For Orchid purposes I always check myself when talking about
chemicals [huge snip] In teaching students or posting to orchid I
am sure of what I write- with the occasional spelling error- 

That is a practice that we all cherish. You periviosly wrote on this
thread that you actually buy dry nitric acid, as in powder… since
you allways check yourself before posting, can you share the source
of dry nitric acid, that i am sure you have on hand. or… was it
one of those “occasional” spelling errors?


#10
When I post something I am certain what i'm posting- and this has
happened before! HNO3 is Nitric acid. I buy that for many
operations 

Once again you are way out in left field, unless you are keeping it
refrigerated to below -42 C Anhydrous Nitric Acid is a liquid and
unless refrigerated it will suck moisture out of the air and become
White Fuming Nitric Acid.

From Wikipedia:

"Anhydrous nitric acid is a colorless mobile liquid with a
density of 1.512 g/cm3, which solidifies at -42 C to form white
crystals. It boils at 83 C. The anhydrous acid reqiures storage
below 0 C to minimize decomposition." 
The label on the Muriatic acid I buy at at home stores says it
contains 98.0% Sulfuric Acid - the rest inert ingredients, 

So it is not Muriatic Acid it is Sulfuric Acid, and BTW
muriatic/hydrochloric acid cannot exceed 40% as it is the gas
Hydrogen Chloride dissolved in water and liquid water will not hold
more than 40 % of the gas. Even then it requires special handling to
keep it from evaporating and leaving the solution at a lesser
concentration. 38% is about the max you can get from any supplier.

and another Nitric acid I buy is Nitratine either a 325 mesh or 200
mesh granule is less than 7 dollars a pound. 

That is not nitric acid it is sodium nitrate.

And again from Wikipedia:

"Nitratine (also nitratite), also known as cubic niter (UK:
nitre), soda niter or Chile saltpeter (UK: saltpetre), is a
mineral, the naturally occurring form of sodium nitrate, NaNO3.
Nitratine crystallizes in the trigonal system, but rarely occurs
as well formed crystals. It is isostructural with calcite. The
typical form is as coatings of white, grey to yellowish brown
masses. It is quite soft and light with a Mohs hardness of 1.5
to 2 and a specific gravity of 2.24 to 2.29. Its refractive
indices are nw1.330 - 1.336 and ne1.580 - 1.587. The rare
crystals when found typically have the scalenohedral form of the
calcite structure." 

Seriously you need to spend some actual time working with the things
you write about and maybe do some more research before you post your
tomes because way too often you post absolute junk and on posts like
this you are endangering people who don’t know enough to realize you
don’t know what you are talking about.

James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


#11
I buy Anhydrous Nitric Acid- its dry, looks like citric acid
crystals, comes in a heavy duty plastic bag with another bag of
brown paper outside of it and a twist tie to close it! 

I wonder what this really is. Anhydrous Nitric acid does form white
crystals - at minus 42 degrees C. In fact, even as a liquid it has
to be kept in the freezer to prevent breakdown.

For the record Muriatic acid means the salt of an acid- Hydrochloric
acid is Muriatic acid. The label on the Muriatic acid I buy at at
home stores says it contains 98.0% Sulfuric Acid

Was that a mistyping? The first sentence is correct, Muriatic acid
is hydrochloric, not sulfuric. But it’s not a salt, it’s the acid
itself.

Al Balmer
Pine City, NY


#12
Once again you are way out in left field, unless you are keeping
it refrigerated to below -42 C Anhydrous Nitric Acid is a liquid
0A I would let all of this go if it wasn't dangerous
mis

Like Jim (above) I’m not sure which planet this comes from.
Hydrochloric acid and also hydrofluoric acid are gases dissolved in
water. In doing that it becomes something more than the sum of it’s
parts, so to speak - it becomes “an acid” and behaves like one. But
there is no salt (solid substance) involved and if you evaporate HCl
you will getwater vapor and HCl gas with no residue whatsoever.

Nitric acid can be made in the laboratory by dissolving nitrogen
dioxide, a gas, in wan and the acid formed is another substance. IOW
it’s not just gas dissolved in water, it becomes a liquid that is
called nitric acid. Once again, there is no salt involved and
evaporating it will leave no salt behind. Sulfuric acid can be made
in the laboratory by dissolving sulfur trioxide, a gas, in water.

When sulfur combusts in an ozone atmosphere, sulfure trioxide is
formed instead of sulfur dioxide. That’s acid rain, just BTW. The
fundamental formula is SO3 (g) + H2O (l) H2SO4 (l), though it
generates so much heat that steam is formed instead of liquid. Again,
a new liquid substance is formed called sufuric acid. There is no
salt involved. {for non-chemists - any product of the reaction of any
acid and any base/alkalye is called “a salt”.

Table salt is only one salt, the product of mixing sodium hydroxide
with hydrochloric acid) Anhydrousnitric acid is a thing that no
mortal human being should be around without serious safety equipment
at all times. The nearest thingto anhydrous sulfuric acid is called
"oleum" and mortal human beings can’t even buy that without
industrial licensing. I wouldn’t be in the same room with it, given
the choice. The old name for nitric acid is “aqua fortis”. The old
name for sulfuric acid is “oil of vitriol”. Beyond that, there are
no other words for knowleagablepeople. The are only two names for any
chemical: technical and common. Sodium nitrate is often called the
common name ofsaltpeter.

It’s is NEVER called nitric acid because it simply is not. Got it?
Oh, and if someone labeled sulfuric acid as “muriatic acid” they
should be reported to the authorities. That’s an accident waiting to
happen. This is chemistry, a science. Like all established science,
it is not debatable.