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Ceramit


#1

Once in a while I use a product called, Ceramit. Ceramit comes in
colors and 2 parts much like epoxy. I use this product very little
and very infrequently as a wash, color assist, etc. After getting the
color desired, you add a second part, Ceramit B to the color. This
then hardens and you can sand, polish, etc.

The problem: Since I use the product so seldom, I find that the
’part B’ changes color to a very dark brown and a bit thicker . . .
this discolors the original mixed color . . . works fine but the color
is dull.

The ‘part B’ looks and acts like the 2nd part of epoxy resin . . . .

I deed a replacement for ‘part B’ since I sue it so seldom that the �
pint purchase size goes bad between uses … .

Does anyone know if the part B is the second part of ‘epoxy’ ??? . .
. Can I use epoxy resin as a replacement? . . . Does anyone know of a
replacement for the part B???

This is not available from the manufacture

Thanks,

Jim C


#2

Jim you can by the part B in cans without buying the kit. I have the
same problem in that I use it very seldom. You just have to bite the
bullet and buy new resin. I think that cerimet is more like polyester
fiber-glas resin than epoxy and the epoxy resins will not work. You
might try the polyester resin instead… let me know if it works.
Frank Goss


#3

Jim,

I just ordered a new can of Part B due to the same situation. I had
a student try part B of a regular epoxy, but with mixed results. It
could be there was a miscalculation on their part, but the results
were less than stellar. I’m sorry that I don’t have a better or more
helpful suggestion at this point.

Tim Glotzbach
Jewelry/Metals
Eastern Kentucky University


#4

Well, yes it is. But not usually from the DEALERS. Krohn industries
is the manufacturer, and from the MSDS you can easily determine that
Ceramit is a POLYESTER based resin, not an epoxy. Polyesters are a
wide range of resins, including those sometimes used for solid object
casting, and even more widely, fiberglass. but as with epoxies, you
cannot just freely mix and match the parts A from one product with the
parts B from another product, even within the same type
(epoxy/polyester). While some products are similar enough for this
to work, most are not, and even if you get a hardening of the product,
strength and bonding and lifespan of the finished item will not be
optimum. The various types of parts A and B are very carefully
formulated for the needed properties, such as hardness, color
fastness, resistance to crazing over time, shrinkage, etc. Changing
what you mix quickly changes the finished result. So it’s best to use
only the resins in any given resin product that the manufacturer has
specified. In many cases, of course, there will be several choices,
and with ceramit, there are at least two types of the part B, one
better for deeper cavities but needing a flat cure, the other is
quicker curing, and a thicker mix, so it can go well over curved or
even vertical surfaces.

Both types of part B are available seperately from the colors. You
can either get it as the “ceramit” line of products from various
jewelry suppliers, or get is as the “ceramitation” line of products,
which is the same thing only with the original Krohn name. Most
dealers of the “vigor” product line can order the part B resin, as can
virtually all the big/major suppliers like Gesswein or Rio Grande.

By the way, with all resins, whether polyesters or epoxies (or even
cyanoacrylate “super glues”), you can greatly increase the shelf life
by keeping the products in the refrigerator when not in use. And with
polyesters like ceramit, be sure the resins are not exposed to light
long term when stored. Usually the part B is packaged in an opaque
container, but if it’s in glass or plastic, keep it in the dark. That
helps to prevent that oxidation that causes the darkening.

Hope this helps.

Peter Rowe


#5

Peter,

Thanks, . . . I would like to continue to use the product but I use
it so seldom that it doesn’t appear that I can afford purchase the
quantity required relative to the frequency I make use of the product
(once every 1 - 2 years, in quantities of .2 oz…) . I would like
to purchase Part B in very small quantities… say 1 to 3 oz… Is
there a substitute or is it sold in these amounts…From: owner-orchid@ganoksin.com [mailto:owner-orchid@ganoksin.com] On
Behalf Of Peter W. Rowe
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 6:30 PM
Subject: [Orchid] Ceramit

Well, yes it is. But not usually from the DEALERS. Krohn industries
is the manufacturer, and from the MSDS you can easily determine that
Ceramit is a POLYESTER based resin, not an epoxy. Polyesters are a
wide range of resins, including those sometimes used for solid object
casting, and even more widely, fiberglass. but as with epoxies, you
cannot just freely mix and match the parts A from one product with the
parts B from another product, even within the same type
(epoxy/polyester). While some products are similar enough for this
to work, most are not, and even if you get a hardening of the product,
strength and bonding and lifespan of the finished item will not be
optimum. The various types of parts A and B are very carefully
formulated for the needed properties, such as hardness, color
fastness, resistance to crazing over time, shrinkage, etc. Changing
what you mix quickly changes the finished result. So it’s best to use
only the resins in any given resin product that the manufacturer has
specified. In many cases, of course, there will be several choices,
and with ceramit, there are at least two types of the part B, one
better for deeper cavities but needing a flat cure, the other is
quicker curing, and a thicker mix, so it can go well over curved or
even vertical surfaces.

Both types of part B are available seperately from the colors. You
can either get it as the “ceramit” line of products from various
jewelry suppliers, or get is as the “ceramitation” line of products,
which is the same thing only with the original Krohn name. Most
dealers of the “vigor” product line can order the part B resin, as can
virtually all the big/major suppliers like Gesswein or Rio Grande.

By the way, with all resins, whether polyesters or epoxies (or even
cyanoacrylate “super glues”), you can greatly increase the shelf life
by keeping the products in the refrigerator when not in use. And with
polyesters like ceramit, be sure the resins are not exposed to light
long term when stored. Usually the part B is packaged in an opaque
container, but if it’s in glass or plastic, keep it in the dark. That
helps to prevent that oxidation that causes the darkening.

Hope this helps.

Peter Rowe

End of forwarded message


#6

I sent an earlier email on the durability of Ceramit. I have an
additional questions on Ceramit. I wish to apply it to Titanium to
simulate an anodized look to repair existing color chips on the
metal. The current finish is very thin and could have actually been
anodized on.

Could Ceramit be used on a project like this? I would imagine that
the product needs to be thined. I would probably have to mix
several colors to achieve a dark Burnt Umber transparent color look.
A close panton color code is 439C.

I wish to apply it to Titanium to simulate an anodized look to
repair existing color chips on the metal. The current finish is very
thin and could have actually been anodized on.

Could Ceramit be used on a project like this? I would imagine that
the product needs to be thined. I would probably have to mix
several colors to achieve a dark Burnt Umber transparent color look.
A close panton color code is 439C.
Edward


#7

Edward, The titanium was probably heat treated to get the color that
you describe. Unless there is a definite design it probably was not
anodized. I don’t think that the crenit will give the look that you
want. Would it be possible to sand/buff away the entire finish and
heat treat the piece again. This can be don with a torch. This metal
goes through color changes that are predictable. It’s been a long time
since I have done this but I recall that the gold/bronzy colors are
the first to appear. You can also get beautiful blues, greens and
purples with heat.

Marilyn Smith


#8

Edward-- Ceramit might stick OK to titanium, but I doubt very much that
the result would be satisfactory. The bulk (thickness) of any resin
material, let alone the gloss, would be very difficult to disguise. I
am puzzled, though, by your description of the problem. Anodized
titanium can be scratched, but I have never seen it chip. The color
layer is a very tough, transparent oxide layer, very very thin. The
best way to repair it would be to re-anodize, though this would need
to be done with skill and care, especially if other metals are
attached to the titanium. Barring that, oil paint might be the way to
go, though I’ve never tried it–I anodize my titanium.

Good luck!
Noel


#9

Used Ceramit on several rings as round ‘spots of color’… in order
to keep the from falling off/out/ I had to first, make the hole cone
shaped, second undercut the hole at the top . . then ceramit would
remain fixed. Jim