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Cavallin or Durston rolling mill?


#1

Hi, I need help in order to choose whether to buy a Durston
combinatio hand rolling mill (100 mm or 150 mm) or a Cavallin with
similar or equal features. I’ve been a jewellery student for a few
years and would like to invest in a lifelong machine. I used to have
a Cavallin without reduction, and it was too hard to work with since
I’m not very strong. I sold it and want to buy one with reduction.
Taking into account your experience, what could you recommend?

Thanks.


#2
Taking into account your experience, what could you recommend? 

Try both, then decide after using them. CIA


#3

…I bought a Cavallin… wish I had purchased a Durston. BUT like
all really good dysfunctional relationships, I have learned to ‘live
with it’…I understand my troubled baby… and actually think I’ve
bonded.

We’ve come to understand each other… still get ‘stuff done’.

Rolling mill number 2 will – without question – be a Durston.

Audrey


#4

I’ve had both and really had no trouble with either one. The Durston
is the more finely crafted of the two. It’s like the Cavallin is the
VW while the Durston is the Audi. They both get you there and if you
have the one, you don’t think about the other. But if you could go
either way get the Audi, I mean the Durston.

Mark


#5
....I bought a Cavallin. wish I had purchased a Durston. BUT like 

I have a Cavallin and a Durston. I prefer the Cavallin. Feels more
solid. No gear ratio on the Cavallin, but just as easy to use as the
Durston 4 to 1 reduction. To each their own.

Lisa (Last of the tomatoes came off of the vines yesterday. Apples
are ripening. Trees are laden with pomegranates) Topanga, CA USA


#6
....I bought a Cavallin. wish I had purchased a Durston. BUT like
all really good dysfunctional relationships, I have learned to
'live with it'.....I understand my troubled baby. and actually
think I've bonded. 

Honestly neither of them do what I need, I’m looking at buying
something hideously expensive. I have tried to get commercial
enterprises to do some of my rolling for me, but it seems too hard
for them :frowning:

Regards Charles A.


#7

Durston every time. Solid construction and amazing after sales
service.


#8
Honestly neither of them do what I need, I'm looking at buying
something hideously expensive. I have tried to get commercial
enterprises to do some of my rolling for me, but it seems too hard
for them :-( 

What on earth are you trying to do with the mills


#9

Hi Charles,

you dont say what material you want rolled. Can you reply with what
section you are starting with, and what you want to finish up with?
Ive several power mills here, and could work out an answer, even if
im too far away to actually help.

Ted.


#10

Hi Ted,

you dont say what material you want rolled. Can you reply with
what section you are starting with, and what you want to finish up
with? Ive several power mills here, and could work out an answer,
even if im too far away to actually help. 

I sort of know what I really need to do (which is buy an expensive
machine).

I want to make my custom bronze alloys into large sheet. Thus far
commercial enterprises wont take the job.

Looking to historical process to see if I could do a low tech
work-a-round is less than joyous. The historical process involves
pouring the bronze between two slabs of granite. The resultant large
sheet ingot would have to be beaten by hand until the required
thinness was achieved.

However if you can think of another way I could achieve the same
results i. e. custom bronze sheets minimum width 30cm. that would be
awesome.

Regards Charles A.


#11
Honestly neither of them do what I need, I'm looking at buying
something hideously expensive. I have tried to get commercial
enterprises to do some of my rolling for me, but it seems too hard
for them :-( What on earth are you trying to do with the mills 

Nothing so scary ;-), just larger sheets than any jewellery rolling
mill can provide.

Minimum width 30cm, larger would be better.

Regards Charles A.


#12

Are these custom bronze alloys you make offered for sale in raw
materials? I work with a decent amount of copper and bronze and it
would be awesome to get my hands on such material.

Kaleb


#13
Nothing so scary ;-), just larger sheets than any jewellery
rolling mill can provide. Minimum width 30cm, larger would be
better. 

And thickness? what do you need?
Also, describe the product you have in mind.

Because bronze is tin and copper.

For appearance sake there are other alloys of copper easier to find
in the sizes you want that look the same, and oxidise like copper tin
bronze does.

I bought sheet in cunifer 10, as I couldnt get a true bronze.
Available still in 1mm thick and upwards.

Very expensive tho.

I also found it if tube form, so a 6in dia tube will flatten out
when cut with a single slit with a jig saw to over 18 in wide.

Takes some Flattening !!.

Its used for hot sea water trunking in connections to and from ships
condensers. I buy it in scrap form.

Await your reply


#14
I bought sheet in cunifer 10, as I couldnt get a true bronze.
Available still in 1mm thick and upwards. Very expensive tho. I also
found it if tube form, so a 6in dia tube will flatten out when cut
with a single slit with a jig saw to over 18 in wide. Takes some
Flattening !!. Its used for hot sea water trunking in connections
to and from ships condensers. I buy it in scrap form. 

The thickness is variable depending on the client. I lot of the
clients want 1.6mm, some want less.

The bronze is very easy to alloy (now that I have a reliable supply
of tin). However there are some customers that want an historic
bronze which may have up to three additional elements in the mix.

Personally I like the look of 90/10, and it works like a dream.

I found a Cavalin catalog at work today, and saw what I need, it’s
really out of the budget at the moment, there is a choice of huge
machines.

Regards Charles A.


#15
Are these custom bronze alloys you make offered for sale in raw
materials? I work with a decent amount of copper and bronze and it
would be awesome to get my hands on such material. 

That’s what I’m working up to. I recently found a source of tin in
Australia, so bronze is very do-able.

I have many potential leads, I have access to the raw materials, a
means to make them into ingots, however rolling them into sheets in
large sizes is proving difficult.

Regards Charles A.


#16

Hi Charles,

Thanks for the info update.

Now I know what you want to do I can give it some thought.

Here, I can power roll up to 6in wide from 3/8th ins thick.

so thats far too small for your needs.

The cunifer 10 I have here was hot rolled! at a Co called Birmingham
battery Co.

They made, also hot rolled large, as in 10 ft dia copper plate 1/4in
thick for the brewery and distillery business.

Regret there gone now. I sawtheir mill and furnaces. in use!! A
fellow silver smith has made a full size replica of the Battersea
shield, he alloyed his bronze and wrought it out by hand.

There was a long discussion as to wether one made up the melt on
weight, or on parts.

do you alloy on weight? ie say 9 lbs ofcopper to 1lb of tin? Or
calculate the amount allowing for the different specific gravity? In
order to get a final analysis of 90 % copper and 10% tin you have to
allow for the different specific gravity in the metals.

The last time i saw bronze being made was some yrs ago where they
used a continious casting mold of water cooled copper which allowed
the metal to be drawn out of the mold bottom at a steady rate.

It was then fed into a milling machine that took of a 1/16th in off
both sides before it went into the rolling mills.

The large brass strip mills at IMI Witton B’ham work in the same
way.

However the sheet is annealed as a strip some 3 ft wide in a cracked
ammonia reducing tunnel kiln before it continues on to thinner
rolling operations.

Id suggest if you havnt already done so, you need to get consistent
results with a small batch of melts before you scale up to the
bigger sizes.

Here in Europe there are a no of Co’s that would make it for you but
would want a minimum of several tons to warrant the exercise.

Casting between cold stone molds is doubtful, I cast sterling into
cast iron molds heated till alive oil smokes when poured over the
mold.

The molten metal burns the oil and prevents oxygen getting to it.
Also i pour through a reducing flame for the same reason.

If you want to correspond further lets do it off list.

Ted.


#17

Hi Ted,

I’m just about 99% certain that historical bronzes were mixed based
on weight. They didn’t have any way (generally) to determine specific
gravity, and no reason to realize that they should care enough to
figure it out from the gear they did have.

Regards,
Brian


#18

I always go by weight too, it gives me the alloys I want, and the
analysis of historical alloys are based on weight (well the ones
I’ve seen anyway).

Regards Charles A.