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Can i anneal silver solder


#1

i made some solder with melting fine silver, copper and zinc, but i
need roll it to a thin piece, so can i anneal the solder? i dont know
if it will broke the solder cause there is zinc in it.

thanks:)


#2

You should be able to roll it, but do not expect the same amount of
deformation between annealing cycles, as with alloys without zinc.
Watch for cracks and anneal at first appearance. Forging an ingot
will help as well.

Leonid Surpin
www.studioarete.com


#3

Yes you certainly can anneal it. It will always be more brittle than
something like sterling but it will get more ductile after
annealing. Be careful how hot you heat it :slight_smile:

James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


#4

no need to roll it, planishing it will thin it well. if you anneal it
it will more than likely melt down. and you will probably firestain
it as well as drawing the zinc - depending on what form you used- out
of the compound. just put a piece of thin-ish leather on the anvil
and planish with an 8 oz. hammer - if not heavier depending on the
size and depth of the ingot of solder you created. You could cover
with CUPRONIL (a 4S Labs product- indispensable on the jeweler’s
bench for flux and firescale prevention in one…) and heat it just to
a soft red…not glowing- that may help further incorporate the metals
by smoothing the surface- almost getting it to the liquidus stage but
not quite that far as it may just seperate the components as opposed
to bonding them…One detail you failed to mention - or i failed to
read- was the hardness/flow point of your compound…if hard, med.
easy or repair, that would bear on the less speculative answer…the
easier ( lower) the flow the less you want to “anneal” or heat before
using it to solder anything together. rer


#5
no need to roll it, planishing it will thin it well. 

One can certainly forge it down but there is absolutely no reason
not to roll it, how do you think the solder sheet you buy is made?

if you anneal it it will more than likely melt down. and you will
probably firestain it as well as drawing the zinc - depending on
what form you used- out of the compound. 

Nonsense it just needs a little lower temperature to anneal than
sterling. As to drawing the zinc out, that is nonsense as well. Zinc
will not vaporize at temperatures below 1665 F, which is way above
any silver-copper-zinc solders melting point.

just put a piece of thin-ish leather on the anvil and planish with
an 8 oz. hammer - if not heavier depending on the size and depth of
the ingot of solder you created. 

You will have a hell of a time doing much reduction in thickness
planishing on leather.

You could cover with CUPRONIL (a 4S Labs product- indispensable on
the jeweler's bench for flux and firescale prevention in one..) 

This is the only reasonable thing you have written in this post.

and heat it just to a soft red..not glowing- that may help further
incorporate the metals by smoothing the surface- almost getting it
to the liquidus stage but not quite that far as it may just seperate
the components as opposed to bonding them.. 

Where in the world do you come up with this stuff.

James Binnion
James Binnion Metal Arts


#6

Is there a special need to anneal the solder? I imagine that if you
are rolling it, you are going to snip it into pallions, why be
concerned if it splits? I usually just roll it out as thin as I can,
let it split where it likes, and then snip out the pallions. I have
found that when heating solder,especially thin sheets (as you would
get when rolling it out), it is easy to overheat and melt sometimes
driving off the zinc, especially with medium and easy. This then
becomes a royal PITA when your solder refuses to melt and flow.

saludos

John Bowling


#7

Hello,

as far as I know and experience the way I make my solder, I agree
completly with James explanation however, everyone does is the way it
works the best for him/her. James explanation is -for me- straight
forward, technical and complete.

A very good friend -which past away a while ago- told me to keep
everything quiet simple and stupid (kiss), life is complicated enough
without making it harder for yourself. Silver solder is just another
silver alloy and can be rolled, planished and annealed aswell. I coil
my silver solder up and hold it gently with some binding wire giving
it the space to move as it likes during the heating proces. I use a
soft reducing flame and move it around the silver coil. Keep your
eyes on the color of the silver solder and hold it in the dark red
zone. You will see that the coil is losing its tension by the way it
starts to move. Keep your flame going around the silver solder untill
the coil doesn’t move anymore. At that point, the tension is gone
and the silver wire is annealed. You might flux it as you like. Do
not quench untill all red color is gone. As James mentioned before,
the zinc will not go anywere OR you have to reach the right
temperature and then you’re a way to high.

I use my rolling mill and don’t planish it with hamers or whatever.
The crystal structure is not this important for the silver solder
because you want to use it as a glue in order to make a perfect bond
between metals. The crystal structure will change anyway when you
melt it as you solder. This does not mean that you don’t have to
anneal it during the reducing proces depending on the thickness of
the wire/sheet you’ve started with.

just put a piece of thin-ish leather on the anvil and planish with
an 8 oz. hammer - if not heavier depending on the size and depth
of the ingot of solder you created. 

I’ve never used a leather path for this purpose because I don’t care
about little marks, intendations or whatever on the silver solder. I
roll it down anyway ending up with a nice wire which I run trough a
drawing plate. No need for me to use a leather path. The solder will
be melted anyway together with the marks. If the leather path is
thin, it will not last for a long period. Too much trouble for
nothing and no gain.

Enjoy and have fun.

Pedro


#8

Another little note: The easiest and best way to anneal anything
tricky or difficult - 28 gauge wire comes to mind - is with a
kiln…