I do not comprehend why anyone would do anything but wrap the bezel around the stone, mark it and cut it. I am not good at math, I am good at fabrication.
I agree- the simple way works for me.
Hey Joy! Works for me too. Donât pay too much attention to the
"attitudes". These are artists - with passion and are completed
fixated on their âwayâ. Wait until their hands begin to give out -
thatâs when you will find they search for ways that work with their
new bodies too. Smile in the sunshine and know there are others like
you out there lol.
Kind regards
Barbara
When you cut the bezel, however, you first cut one side, then flip the whole thing over so you're cutting the other side with the cut end to the same side of the snips. What that does is give the two slightly beveled or angled surfaces, an opposite angle, so they essentially mate, kind of a slightly mitered joint.
I really should learn to re-read my own posts more carefully. Think
one thing, type the exact opposite. Not sure how I do that. Probably
something about staying up way past my bedtime to read Orchid⌠In
any case, do NOT flip the bezel over or around. Cut one side of the
bezel with the waste to the right side, then the other with the waste
to the left, bezel held in the same position for each. Thatâs how you
get the angles to match. Flip it over and you get a V shaped joint,
which is fine if youâre planning to laser weld the joint, but not so
good for soldering.
Sorry if I confused anyoneâŚ
Peter
I do not comprehend why anyone would do anything but wrap the bezel around the stone, mark it and cut it.
In my opinion, this way is inexact and your bezel will be too long.
Many people, and esp. the beginners, think that bezel setting is
easiest of all settings, but it is not the truth. And so, one can see
the many mistakes done with bezel settings, not only the amateurs,
but also by the professionals.
There are often crooked bezels destroying the look of the ring. In
making the bezel, nothing is more important than the fit. When done,
the stone should fit so tightly in the bezel that it needs to forced
in. It cannot fall out when you put your piece upside down. It
cannot fall out when you gently tap on the piece while being upside
down. That is the essential about the bezel.Therefore, a bezel has to
be made too small and then gradually made larger on a mandrel or by
other means, until the fit is perfect. Once the bezel is ready and
the stone fits perfectly, the bezel has to be tapered in appr. 45
degrees at the top, therefore a bezel of sufficient ga. is called
for, not 26 or 28 ga. (I am talking about the gold /platinum rings).
After the setting, the bezel needs to be lightly filed and then
cleaned up with a flat graver. This is not so easy to accomplish as
it sounds, esp. not for faceted stones which are not round, as the
degree of the crown differs.
Jacques Pinaud.
Andy, I donât do much bezel setting, but if I did, I would do it
your way. If I wanted to work on the crown jewels (boring!) I would
learn the precise way.
Roxy
Thatâs sound great and I look forward to seeing the product - as no
matter what I do or how I do it, it always takes forever to get two
90 degree edges that meet perfectly. Please let us know when it is
available or if I can pre-order it. (I am moving out of the country
and hope to get one before I go). Ruta
It is always hard for me to believe that supposedly intelligent and
creative artists, technologists and craftspeople can hold to the
belief that there is ONLY ONE appropriate technique for accomplishing
a task such as making a bezel. My only questions about methods aRe:
are the results good? do I have the skills? are they safe? are they
economical? If you get the same result, why go through extra steps. I
knowâŚsome will say that the results wont be the same. I also know
that I am not the first to observe that narrow-minded instructors
stultify the educational process. Varying a technique that always
works may not be wise but not doing so when you see a better way
doesnât seem very smart. Variance does not make you a deviant.
gerald vaughan
The first rule of working with precious stones is always to protect them.
I assumed when I read the post that it was cabochons that were being
discussed. Most cabs are not precious stones, and they usually are
materials that are not fragile. Most damage, for me, happens after
the fine silver has been pushed against the cab, when the edge is
burnished with a pointed burnisher, the point of the burnisher can
chip or scratch the cab.
After wrapping and cutting, the bezel will be too large (there is no way around it), so it has to be trimmed. The question is by how much? Since we have no idea of what the actual length of out bezel is, nor do we know what is the circumference of the stone is, so we are going to take a guess. While it is possible to guess correctly, the odds are against it. The result will be bezel too large or too small.
About 80% of the bezels I make in fine silver are the right size.
You get used to knowing how far back to either have it just right, or
if a bit to tight, I use a metal block that has different size half
circles and I put the bezel on a mandrel, use thering mandrel to
position the bezel against the correct size half circle and while
turning the mandrel, tap the ring mandrel. The edge of the bezel is
driven up the mandrel and the turning keeps it even. Reshape back to
itâs original shape if an oval. No marks on the side, no hammer marks
on the side, no tool marks to remove.
Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.
Itâs funny, but my experience has been just the opposite. The
"Thereâs only one proper way to do this " attitude has most often
come from the professionals in the field, in my experience, rather
than the schools.
Like so many things, I believe that the key to being a good jeweler,
metalsmith, makerâdoctor or lawyer for that matter-- is being able
to think on your feet and adapt to different situations. To agilely
problem solve. There is more than one way to make a bezel, skin a cat
or approach a problem.
In my world, anyway.
Take care, Andy
the first question is how thick the bezel should be? If we are going to wrap it, cannot be too thick. Let's take 0.5mm. After wrapping and cutting, the bezel will be too large (there is no way around it), so it has to be trimmed. The question is by how much?
Well, no. Only if one is imcompetent at the bench.
I try really hard to lurk, but I want to weigh in on the most
important âbezelâ debate. To wrap or not to wrap. That is the
question. Chagrined, I have to confess I do whatever works for the
task at hand. If that means wrapping a piece of fine silver or karat
gold bezel around a stone and eyeballing it to the correct length
and cutting it⌠that is what I do. Been doing it for 40 years and
as wrong as it is it seems to work where appropriate. I file it
too⌠and am ashamed to confess I eyeball it straight⌠but donât
tell anyone. If it means taking careful calculations and doing the
requisite math to come up with an exact length (yes, including the
metal thickness) and then forming the bezel on my cute fretz stakes
with my cute fretz hammers or whatever I can find that seems to fit
or hit it with at the moment⌠I do that if the bezel is too thick
to wrap. If the stone is a freeform and the bezel is too thick to
wrap then I am not above wrappingsomething around it using that as a
guide for the bezel length⌠and then whooping it into shape on the
stakes. I also have to admit (forgive me) that I almost always do
err just a smidgen on the short side so I can ease the bezel up to
the size of the stone. Alas, I am not perfect and Iâd rather err to
the short side and tweak it up a little for a perfect fit⌠than
have to cut a piece out to make it fit. Just what I do. It works for
me.
I am sure it is the wrong way to do it, but I never seem to do
things just the right way anyhow.
My friend Leonid. Respectfully, can you please provide a
mathematical formula for making a bezel that is freeform⌠one
shaped like a blob of snoton the sidewalk.
"There's only one proper way to do this " attitude has most often come from the professionals in the field, in my experience, rather than the schools.
Agreed. In the schools, Iâve noted a phenomenon much like what seems
to appear in Orchid. Lots of people each with their own personal way
of doing things, and those of them with less experience, being very
concerned that the way theyâve worked out to do a thing may not be
the ârightâ way⌠After a while, they figure out that since it works
for them, itâs THEIR right way. If they then get new tricks and tips
from Orchid or their own experience, all the better.
Itâs been said that jewelry work is about a half dozen basic
techniques, and then a few million little tricks and variations and
fixes and work arounds and personal embeleshments to those basics.
Many of those tricks are things each metalsmith comes up with on
their own. What works best for one, may not be the best for the next
person, despite the fact that each of us with some experience under
our belts, tends to believe that we know the absolute best way,
superior to other methods, which may be either less efficient or
simply not able to give acceptable results.
The right way to do a thing is what works best for you, so long as
it gets the job done with the result being the way it should be. And
how the final result should be, while you may need it to meet
generally agreed upon aesthetic and qualtiy/craftsmanship standards,
is also something that for your own work you get to define.
Peter
Most damage, for me, happens after the fine silver has been pushed against the cab, when the edge is burnished with a pointed burnisher, the point of the burnisher can chip or scratch the cab.
Richard, try this. Put a small flat straight across the sharp tip of
the burnisher, blunting it. The flat should be angled to slightly
less than 90 degrees to the surface of the burnisher bearing down on
the bezel, and should be slightly domed, but only slightly. The edge
between the working surface of the burnisher and the tip surface
should be reasonably sharp, but as I said, almost a 90 degree angle.
In use, your burnisher is pointed straight at the stone, so the part
of the burnisher that may hit the stone is that slightly domed flat,
not any sharp edge. That will greatly reduced the chance of
scratching the stone. For my own burnishers, Iâm usually using bullet
point carbide (or sometimes steel, but mostly carbide) burnishers. I
modify the points as above, with a flat surface cutting off that
sharp tip and polished. Now the question of whether thereâs a sharp
edge against the stone is a function of what angle youâre holding the
whole burnisher at, not whether the tip is that tiny hair too close
to the stone. I even, for soft stones, modified one of these
burnishers by flowing a tiny bit of pure gold onto that flat tip and
trimming it down to just a thin layer. Now the surface of the
burnisher that may hit the stone is that soft gold, not the hard
carbide. Try it. You may like it.
Peter
Like so many things, I believe that the key to being a good jeweler, metalsmith, maker--doctor or lawyer for that matter-- is being able to think on your feet and adapt to different situations. To agilely problem solve. There is more than one way to make a bezel, skin a cat or approach a problem.
Thanks for your view - itâs mine as well, so naturally I think itâs
great!
Kay
Leonid:
After wrapping and cutting, the bezel will be too large (there is no way around it), so it has to be trimmed.
I would be willing to bet that those who have done hundreds or
thousands of these will get the size rightâŚ:-)⌠But even if
you donât have such extensive experience of this particular
activity, itâs still pretty easy if you realize that reducing the
length at the actual point of overlap by the thickness of the metal
is extremely close to the desired length.
If bezel is too large, the process is repeated until unescapable result of too small."
In my experience, this result is certainly not inescapable! For such
a task, one should never trim by cutting! The old-school way to do
ANY seam in a ring (a bezel being a ring) is to saw through the
soldered seam. This way you get a perfect fit because the ends are
necessarily perfectly parallel. You just choose the saw blade
according to how much smaller you want it. For the inexperienced, if
you donât get it right the first time, you solder and saw until you
do. If you use a fine blade (e.g., 8/0) when itâs close, itâs easy
to get it the perfect size without fear of making it too small. An
experienced metal person should be able to do it in one cut (by
choosing the correct size saw blade).
If, for some inexplicable reason, you make it too small, it should
be stretched on a mandrel (no matter how tiny the bezel or how thick
the metal!) and not planished, for all the reasons Leonid mentioned!
I, personally, ALWAYS calculate and then saw through the soldered
seam with a 6/0-8/0 saw to get a perfect seam. Unless the strip is
under 0.50 mm., in which case I would just wrap and mark (taking
into account that the correct point is not the exact point of
overlap!) and mark with a scribe (not a Sharpie-type marker!).
Janet in Jerusalem
I am quite amazed how a simple thing like making a bezel turns into a
virtual war, with people threatening to leave the list and others
insinuating the human race is mathematical challenged. Come on man,
this is not rocket science.
As John Donovan said, itâs just fundamental stuff. I have in my
career employed quite a few qualified goldsmiths and quite frankly,
were that person to whip out a pencil and paper if I asked them to
make a bezel for a stone, I would certainly raise my eyebrows.
Not that I am saying it is a wrong method.
Simply, to me it would be something I have never actually seen done.
So, Leonid how about just doing a few quick pictures showing how you
would make a bezel in this manner on your Orchid blog? I am quite
happy to return the favor by doing the same, showing how I would
make a bezel for say a 15mmx 10mm cab, or any other stone as well,
square, rectangular, whatever.
That way we could let all the younger people choose the method they
feel most comfortable with. And, for that matter, were I to find a
better method, I would certainly change. It would only take an hour
or so and I am sure anybody could spare that time in the interests of
teaching.
What say you Leonid?
http://www.meevis.com
I wonder why those comments of support aren't aired publicly?
I have often wondered this myself.
To all newbies, and also to old salts trying new techniques:
NEVER listen to ANYONE that says theirs is the one and only correct
way to do anything. There is no right way or wrong way to do anything
concerning jewelry, there are only ways that work or donât work for a
particular craftsman. If you work for someone, or are taking a class,
then the bossâs or the instructorâs way of doing things might be an
exception to this rule. But thatâs only while theyâre looking!
In the path my professional life has taken, I have been exposed to
many different ways of doing things, things quite often that I knew
how to do well. But someone comes along that knows how to do it
better, faster, more efficiently or whatever. When I was young and a
tad more hard-headed, I resisted learning new techniques, mainly
because I already knew how to do it right, and no old man (or worse,
some young kid) was going to tell me different. I soon found out that
I didnât have all the answers, as a matter of fact, I was pretty far
from it. I have since learned to embrace my ignorance, even with
those things that I have done hundreds or even thousands of times in
deference to those that might just know something about what theyâre
talking about. And that someone doesnât necessarily have to be
someone of infinitely more experience than I have. Sometimes, the
best solutions come from those who havenât a clue how to go about
doing something, they just figure it out as they go, and then come up
with a solution that makes me wonder âwhy didnât I think of that?â
By the way, I have never calculated a length for a bezel, with the
possible exception of wrapping paper or something around a stone to
find out if I had enough material. I have no idea how to go about
figuring out the length needed mathematically, I canât imagine any
specific formula would ever work with any degree of accuracy anyway.
With the exception of some cheap machine cut cabs, most stones are
not mathematically perfect symmetrical shapes, so trying to apply the
precision of mathematics to a stone cut by the hand of a craftsman
would most likely end up in a cut-and-fit-cut-and-fit scenario
anyway. It would probably take me three times as long as just bending
a piece of metal around it and saying âthis looks about rightâ,
cutting just a bit too long and then filing to fit. And I bend the
bezel around the stone too whenever possible. Might get me fired at
some snooty stuck-in-the-19th-century place run by someone that
considers his own skills to be of such an incredibly high level that
he sees no need of further learning, but I work for myself, so who
cares?
Anybody know where I can get a girdle stretcher for those occasional
loose bezels?
Dave Phelps
To all newbies, and also to old salts trying new techniques: NEVER listen to ANYONE that says theirs is the one and only correct way to do anything.
suggested addendum to the above: If you Must use the word âneverâ, do
so only with great caution. (trying not to say, ânever say neverâŚâ)
Anybody know where I can get a girdle stretcher for those occasional loose bezels?
No, but a few layers of duct tape wrapped tightly around the stone
should fix the loose fit. Alternatively, a wad of chewing gum can
work, or in extreme cases, a blob of epoxy, especially if allowed to
overspill, dripping down the outside of the bezel in order to give
greater strength to the bondâŚ
While weâre at it, I seem to have misplaced my diamond magnet.
Anyone know where I can get another? You know, the sort of magnet
used for picking dropped mellee out of the morass of dust and stuff
in the bench pan or in dusty corners on the floor, etcâŚ
Peter
My friend Leonid. Respectfully, can you please provide a mathematical formula for making a bezel that is freeform.... one shaped like a blob of snoton the sidewalk.
I accept the challenge.
Letâs take a shape with outline comprised of curves (blobby shape).
For simplicity sake our shape will have 3 such curves. Process works
for any number of curves. Circumference of the shape is equals to the
sum of length of the curves. So we reduced our problem to
determination each curve length and adding it together.
To determine curve length - the curve is gradually replaced by
number of straight lines to achieve the best fit. Select a point on
one of the curves and connect ends of curve to this point with
straight lines. By adding length of these lines we approximating
length of the curve with some precision. Two lines would give us only
rough approximation. By employing 3 lines or more we can achieve
required precision in determination of length. Incidentally, it is
the method employed by Ancient Greeks in determination of
circumference of the circle and itâs relation to the circleâs
diameter.
The method above belongs to class of solutions known as heuristics.
For more mathematically inclined sum of functions can be used. Every
curve is geometrical representation of a function or a sum of
functions. if a shape is made up of semi-circles, than knowing the
radiuses yields the solution. Length of a curve N = PiRn and length
of circumference = Sigma(PiRx) (with x varying from 1 to N )
Calculating with half-elipses or 2/3 circles are not different.
Leonid Surpin
I would be willing to bet that those who have done hundreds or thousands of these will get the size right...:-)..... But even if you don't have such extensive experience of this particular activity, it's still pretty easy if you realize that reducing the length at the actual point of overlap by the thickness of the metal is extremely close to the desired length.
I accept your point. But that does not mean that method is valid. A
lot of things can be done with practice. When I worked as engraver,
I almost never used dividers. I could visually divide in 2, 3, or any
other number of parts. But what do you think the right method of
teaching is - by using dividers, or saying âpractice until you can
do itâ ?
Leonid Surpin