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Cad design for embossed rings


#1

Hi

My bullion dealer has started producing embossed strips for rings in
sterling.

From what I can find out they are Victorian early 20th Century
designs. Very beautiful.

My problem is that as the designs are repeating making an
"invisible" join in the pattern limits the sizes of the rings.

Now can a repeating design be done in CAD to be manipulated to size
the design up and down for rings?

Can one of the repeating design strips be scanned and manipulated to
rings? The strips are flat backed, can CAD make the inside comfort
fit?

So hello all you CAD girls and guys can CAD do what a master
engraver can and then manipulate the design?

Or should I make the rings open and so size up and down from there.
Personally I think open back rings look cheap and I don’t think they
are comfortable.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Richard
Xtines Jewels


#2

Hello Richard,

I am in no way a CAD gal - and I would appreciate the name of your
bullion dealer as might others. The strips from your description
sound perfect for a well placed cabochon. Not my preference for an
open backed ring - I expect them to retail for $2.

Barbara on Lammas Day on the Island. Time to make some bread!


#3

Hi

Anyone need CAD designing with very low rates?

Kapil Jain.
India


#4

Hi Richard,

I have a line of wedding rings that I do that have a series of
celtic designs that repeat seamlessly around the circumference of
the ring.

They’re all custom output to give a seamless pattern at whatever
ring size is required.

They were some of the first things I ever did with my frankensteined
CAD/CAM system, 20 odd years ago. The CAD came into it by way of
getting the design to fit, once I’d figured out the proper
circumference for the ring OD.

(As in: X number of pattern repeats per Y length)

With 20 years of experience with them, I can tell you now that it’s
not a great idea.

When I was first starting out, I had to eat a set of platinum rings
by way of discovering that my ring mandrel was off by half a size.
No way to make them smaller. 20 years on, I’ve had to size several
of them up. Up is just marginally possible, but a royal pain. Also
limited to about a size or so.

Trust me on this: you really, really want to put a sizing block
into the bottom of the shank. Just a small little smooth spot where
there is no pattern, and it’s clear that you never intended for
there to be. (so the pattern stops at a natural spot.) I’ve known
people to engrave designs on the sizing block, to make it look like
a decoration. Then it’s less obviously there for mechanical reasons.

Regards,
Brian


#5

Richard- I’m sure it can be done. However it would be cast and thus
not have the same crisp cuts made by a master hand engraver. Same
with the embossed strips and machine engraving. Just not the same
depth and crispness as hand cut.

Have fun and make lots of jewelry.

Jo Haemer
timothywgreen.com


#6

What exactly r u trying to do? Do you want to reinvent your bullion
guys work or do your own?

If you purchase a couple of rings and pieces them together you could
old school get larger sizes and make new molds or

If you have some images of what you are trying to do I would be glad
to look at them.

I have been doing CAD/CAM for 15+years.


#7

Richard.

To your first question. I think that would be perfectly reasonable.
Pictureswould help me to say for sure.

One issue you may find, however, is just as with making a copy of a
copy andloosing resolution especially when starting so small.

Oddly enough, there are moulding compounds now that you can scale up
might take a couple of pulls to get to a good scale to scan from.

Comfort fit. Don’t see why not, but I will defer to someone else on
that.

engraving; I may be wrong, but there, I think things would get more
tricky. I would say technically it could be possible. Probably would
take a 5 axis mill that as far as I can tell would take a different
arrangement than istypical. Probably more expensive than there is an
economic drive for.

As I am pretty sure a CBC system called a pick-and-place could be
used to set stones, just don’t think the mass production of it is
there.

Alas, some things should be left to artists and crafts folk.

Cheers.

Christopher Lund
Neurascenic


#8

If I CAD a wide band, it is either going to be a hollow or a comfort
fit.

I can make a repeating pattern without a problem, although I
typically choose a pattern with a seam or seams for sizing purposes
down the road.

Also, my process for traditionally hand engraved patterns is to draw
them by hand, scan and ‘etch’ it onto the CAD model, then engrave by
hand.

-Eric


#9

Designs embossed into metal have been around a long time, its not
that difficult to do yourself, ive been embossing strip using many
different designs as follows.

get a say 6in center punch, anneal the end cut off and file up and
drill into the punch any design you like in skeleton form.

Harden and temper. Polish.

get your strip supported on a hard steel block and hammer the design
into the strip.

Practice on copper or lead to get your hand /eye in.

Youll then be able to do something thats exclusive to you,.

as your bullion dealer will sell the designs to all and sundry.

I must have some 50 odd punches ive made over the yrs, from as small
as say 1/16th in up to 1/2 in.

You dont need to go to the hassle of cad, wax patterns casting, and
all that caper.

wrought is so much easier and quicker. You can even write words if
you can find a set of nice type face punches.

Ive a lovely hand cut times new roman st of letters and nos from
about 1890. still nice and sharp.

You can then extend the idea to a pictogram reflecting the wearers
interests on bigger things such a bracelets, pendants etc.

Once youve the punches the limit is your imagination…


#10

Do you have a portfolio? I am looking for a CAD designer. A Also an
email address ?


#11

Hi Richard,

I, too, love some of those old Victorian designs!

CAD can definitely lay out a repeating design that will meet up
appropriately, creating an unbroken ring design pattern. It would
require adjusting the length of each design “section” and the
circumference of the finger size while keeping band thickness in
mind. The original section could certainly be 3D digitally scanned
and then manipulated in CAD software. Additionally, you could do the
same process with your own designs.

As for the comfort fit inside - that, too, can be created in CAD.
The simplest way to then achieve your models would probably be to 3D
print or grow them. If the models are milled, it may be easier to
make the comfort fit fillet in the waxes or castings by hand, at the
bench, rather than having to do a 3-sided milled cut.

If you are working with your stock strip, it may be possible to
slightly stretch and/or sleeve the rings to achieve an uninterrupted
pattern along with the proper finger size. Using this method, there
will be some slight variation in band thickness.

It sounds like a fun project - best of luck!

Scott Patrick
Casting Product Development
Rio Grande Mfg R&D


#12
My bullion dealer has started producing embossed strips for rings
in sterling. 
From what I can find out they are Victorian early 20th Century
designs. Very beautiful. 
My problem is that as the designs are repeating making an
"invisible" join in the pattern limits the sizes of the rings. 
Now can a repeating design be done in CAD to be manipulated to
size the design up and down for rings" 

[snip]

Yes Richard, you can create a repeating design like this with any
CAD and manually manipulate it to account for each size you want.

On the other hand, with a Parametric CAD, you can do the design and
ring shank once the way you want it to look then automatically
recalculate the design to accommodate any size you want and any width
or thickness with little to no manual rework of the design.

Bob Claborne


#13
Ive a lovely hand cut times new roman st of letters and nos from
about 1890. still nice and sharp. 

FWIW, Times New Roman was designed in 1931. If your punches date
from the late 19th century they cannot be Times New Roman.

Just saying.
Elliot Nesterman


#14
Ive a lovely hand cut times new roman st of letters and nos from
about 1890. still nice and sharp. 

Perhaps you can suggest what they might be as the type face is
virtually identical and to all intents and purposes the same There
certainly 19th cent.


#15

Hi

First thank you everyone for your posts and emails.

I have just made my trial rings from the embossed strips. Chamfered
the edges of the strip to make a comfortable ring.

By luck or happenstance making them up in L M and N sizes the
pattern joined. Only way to find the join was to look for the solder
line on the inside of the ring.

Some way smart dude did this design. I will now check out the other
designs.

As for comfort fit, I think the easiest way would be to draw low
profile half round wire and solder it to the embossed strip then make
the rings. Crisp embossed outside comfort fit inside.

Also made rings from oval wire 4mm by 2.2mm i. e.comfort fit both
plain bands and set with stones.

Customers agreed best feeling rings ever.

Now time to sell out the non- comfort fit stock and replace it with
comfort fit bands.

Glad I don’t carry much stock.

Might even wear one myself and I find rings annoying but have a
passion for making them.

Also had a guy who wants sharks teeth set in silver, had asked me
before but went with a trade trained jeweller.

The jeweller ground the top of the teeth down and lost the shape but
the setting was easy.

I am talking big white pointer’s teeth. Think JAWS.

Now he wants it done to keep the integrity of the teeth. AKA done
properly not the easy way out.

Some govt trained jewellers make original designs and quality but
this, I think, is due to their inherent ability rather than the
teaching they recieved. The best quality I have seen consistently is
from privately trained people.

All levels of the education system in Australian are aimed at
dumbing everything down.

When I started at The School for Silversmiths I asked Wal (Walraven
van Heeckeren, google this guy to see some amazing jewellery and
hollow ware) if I got a piece of paper from this course.

Sure he said and gave me a piece of paper. And told me the
qualification you get is the last piece you made. Those in the know
will judge you by your work not pieces of paper earned. And you will
NEVER work in a trade shop!

Instead of class one day Wal sent us off to see an exhibition at a
museum of current graduates work, no names no law suits.

We laughed out loud, stones not straight, bezels not down, metal not
polished etc. but very “artistic” LOL. Others looking at the
exhibition asked us what we did, we showed them what we made. They
could not believe it. Got lots of orders that day. We also had TAFE
students come to class, soon dropped out of TAFE, learned more in 2
months than in 6 at TAFE. We worked a full professional day at
school.

Richard


#16
Perhaps you can suggest what they might be as the type face is
virtually identical and to all intents and purposes the same There
certainly 19th cent. 

Times New Roman was based on the 1913 Plantin font, which was based
on Granjon from the 16th century. Maybe that explains the similarity?

Al Balmer


#17
Perhaps you can suggest what they might be as the type face is
virtually identical and to all intents and purposes the same There
certainly 19th cent. 

There are several possibilities. The 19th cent. is not known for the
development of new faces, with the notable exception of the slab
serif style. Rather there were a significant number of display faces
created at the time.

The text faces in use had been developed in the 17th & 18th cents.
and continued effectively unchanged until new faces started to be
designed in the 20th cent.

Without seeing a specimen of the type it is not really possible to
suggest more than that the punches you have are a sort of generic
roman face, which may have similarities to many of the classic roman

Forgive me if I seem to be teaching you to suck eggs, but I’ve no
idea what your typographical background is.

Elliot Nesterman
www.ajoure.net


#18

Ok, for my word processing I use MS write and in there I have
selected and use times New Roman. Thats about my typographical
knowhow.

Its the type I happen to like. It does the job, and ive no time nor
inclination to learn another w/processing programme. Its the content
that counts!.

the punches are as near to that type face as makes no difference.

there quite small ie 1/8th in in height. Hand cut with full relief
from the face.

thanksfor your imput anyway.


#19

Richard, does the school still exist, and if so, in which state in
Australia?