One thing that has not been mentioned that I am curious about, what
is the relationship between the time and money spent getting
educated in the BFA and/or MFA and the difference in pay that can be
expected when you enter the job market with or without the college
education. After graduation from college or technical school, neither
person has experience and that limits where the pay would start at.
Assuming the learning curve for each, how fast will the pay increase
for the college graduate as opposed to the technical school graduate?
What type of work is available for a college grad and what type of w=
ork is available for the tech school grad. What can the tech school
grad do that the college grad cannot, and vice versa.
Hello Orchidland,
Joel Schwalb commented, “I do agree with Elaine in that you might
even be better off starting with a technical school. If you do this
first you will have a big advantage when you enter any BFA and/or MFA
programs. Unlike your fellow students, you will start out with the
ability to produce your designs and truly focus on the designing side
of it while your fellow students will be spending a lot of time
figuring out how to do it.”
I would also add that many state universities recognize and accept
some credit hours from a technical school or junior/community
college. Since the credit hour cost at these is usually significantly
less than the 4-year school, you might save yourself some bucks and
time. Ask an enrollment counselor at the schools of your choice.
Judy in Kansas, where the weather person is talking SNOW??? I hope not.
I’ll risk being attacked by adding some thoughts, if I may, from the
perspective of the employer.
A couple of decades of retail store ownership is guiding my thinking
here, but that does not make my conclusions any more valid than the
conclusions of others, assuming they are speaking from experience
rather than from fantasy or wishful thinking.
I’ll keep it simple by saying that I would vastly prefer a skilled
craftsperson with a good design “sense” to many (not all) of the
MFA’s I’ve met.
Good design, in jewelry, does not mean just something that is
aesthetically pleasing. What you find pleasing, I might not, or all
jewelry would look the same. Rather, good design includes the idea
that the piece must be conveniently wearable, although PERHAPS the
piece designed for occasional wear might not exhibit the same
ruggedness as a piece intended as an engagement/wedding ring.
And it is precisely this “wearability” that is so often lacking in
the portfolios of the MFA’s that I have seen. In fact, if you visit
the web sites of the foremost schools offering MFA’s with an
emphasis in metalwork, you will be treated to wonderful examples of
creative pieces bordering on the abstract that are, for all
practical purposes, useless. And the “skills” developed there are
mostly not useful to me as a store owner.
A store owner needs someone at the bench who is good at their CRAFT.
This person fills a specific NEED, and it is a little different from
the need for a “designer”. I was forunate to have a very gifted wax
carver and goldsmith work with me for years. He’s occasionally here
on the list (Hi, Charles!) and he and I would often remark that good
custom jewelry business can be run with probably less than a dozen
strong basic designs (and their variations). Beyond that number,
there few pieces that have:
- Broad appeal (turn!)
- Wearability
- Durability
- Profitability
If the piece doesn’t have all those, I’m headed for broke.
We also were constantly reminded of the preponderance of customers
who found their way to our “one-of-a-kind, designed for you” type
operation, who wound up choosing, after much deliberation,
sketching, CAD work, etc., a design that was not much different than
many other pieces made before…by ourselves or others. Considering
relatively conservative tastes held by many of our customers, and
the first three items listed above, how could it be otherwise? It’s
just business, in the end, and the business rules are primary. They
take preference over the desire or need to create something
"different". If that sounds eerily similar to the discussions of
"artist vs business success", there’s a reason.
To address the question posed by Mr. Hart (investment in education
vs return in terms of pay in the marketplace), it’s pretty clear.
Ideas are cheap, skills are rare, invest in the rarity. I think it’s
also harder to accomplish, and will take longer than the time needed
to get that MFA.
Not wishing to slight those who have invested in the MFA, I would
say that if you are pondering the path, think long and hard about
your GOALS. I can assure you there is more demand for the skilled
craftsperson willing to work for someone else. Health care is
expensive, think about it.
NOW…if I had a kid wondering which to pursue, I would recommend
he/she become a plumber or a tile setter…the pay is MUCH better
and the skill set not so demanding.
Wayne
Hello Mary,
All I can say is that the art dept. at K-State hasn’t awakened to
the need for a couple business courses. The website does note that
the BFA is oriented toward a professional career in art. Don’t know
what the orientation for the BA in art would be.
A good friend who completed her BFA about 15 years ago had the same
thought. I’d suggest a special business course for non-business
majors, called business for entertainers. It should target anyone who
will rely on skills and abilities like performance arts, fine arts,
sports, etc. There are some basic concepts that people who work for
themselves or under contract, should know about the business stuff.
Taxes. Accounting. Investing. Credit. Undoubtedly there are more
topics.
Judy in Kansas, where they took the snow out of the forecast, but
changed it to windy drizzle.
Hi Judy
Among the many things on my to-do list these days is to go to the
next round of seminars offered by an organization called SCORE
(service corps of retired executives) This organization is comprised
of retired business executives. They offer free and confidential
business advice for start-ups and ongoing businesses. You can
schedule one-on-one interviews and receive info to fit your specific
needs.
The main issue for me is that this advice is free…so if I get there
and find it’s not a fit, no harm, no foul.
Best Regards
Kim
Rather, good design includes the idea that the piece must be conveniently wearable, although PERHAPS the piece designed for occasional wear might not exhibit the same ruggedness as a piece intended as an engagement/wedding ring.
Wayne makes perhaps the most important point of all - that real
jewelry is to be worn by real people. I’m sure it’s great fun to make
some gallery piece, but if you want to sell jewelry, the customer
needs to put it on and feel like it belongs there, whatever it may
be.
I’ve been trying to think this out while working at the bench. During
my 40+ years as a designer and maker of jewellery I’ve worked with
100’s of jewellery professionals, some were exceptional masters, and
others, steady reliable craftsmen with only a few well-practiced
skills. What I can’t see is what the advantage would be in hiring a
person with a degree. If you visualize a design/manufacturing studio
as an orchestra of talented performers each playing a specialized
instrument (craft) in harmony with others under the creative
direction of a composer/conductor (designer) you begin to realize
that what is needed is a lot of ability and experience. This comes
from years of practice. A graduate music student that hasn’t played
an instrument for years (all of her life) under the direction of a
master wouldn’t be of much use in an orchestra and a student without
skills (trained eyes and hands), talent, and experience wouldn’t be
of much help in a creative studio. Craftsman-artists think
differently, they see techniques, processes, difficulties and
possibilities based on their repertoire of past experience. Maybe I
missed the point somewhere, but here, we still produce the
Jeweller’s art the old fashion way, with a lot of inspiration,
talent, hard work and continuous development.
Dennis Smith
Wayne,
As an artist I totally agree with your post. Yes, the art is
something we need to express, but it is the craft that feeds us and
our children. Although, might I add that my oldest son, age 30, is a
plumber and is making six figures! Crappy job but he’s making way
more than I am! Plus he loves it!
My husband sees me obsessed with making jewelry, although I wear
little of it and usually the same pieces all of the time. It is the
crafting I strive to learn and perfect. And I have lots of really
cool designs waiting to be born. I will wear a piece around the house
for a couple of days once it is made. If it is not right, then it
either gets reworked or scrapped. If it doesn’t wear well, it will
never be worn, or sell. This takes lots of time out of my days since
I have learned the craft of metal forming mostly on my own and with a
few classes here or there. But beautiful and ornate wax carving comes
easily and I am currently working on setting up the casting section
of my studio.
On the other hand the skills I have as a painter, the ones I sprang
out of the womb with, would make more money for us but I am not as
driven. It is sometimes a chore to get me to stand in front of the
canvas and keep going even though I clearly better at the craft of
painting than the craft of metal forming. But beautiful and ornate
wax carving comes easily and I am currently working on setting up the
casting section of my studio.
Okay, that goes all over the map.
Stephen King wrote a book in 2000 about the craft of writing. To
paraphrase: He said that he had dreamed for a long time of having an
impressive massive desk, smack dab in the middle of his study on
which to write. A special place to create his work! So he finally got
one…a big ornate carved oak thing. He soon got tired of it, got rid
of it and put a smaller desk in the corner leaving the rest of the
space to be furnished as a family room where he could enjoy pizza and
movies with his family when not writing. He said the room and its
furnishings were not there to support THE ART but the art was there
to support his family.
That said, if I were a much younger person and had all this before
me, I would go after the technical skills first. At least one can
work as a bench jeweler and eat while taking BFA or MFA courses later
on. Or better yet do both at once if one has the means. You can’t get
much done if you don’t know how to do it.
I guess I’ll get back to that portrait…
Nel
Hello All,
I just graduated from Rochester Institute of Technology, and there,
we had a full year of business courses prior to graduation (I got my
BFA in Jewelry). The topics for the courses were based on small
business practices, and what is needed to become a small
business, how to apply for loans…One class involved creating a
business plan, and bringing it to a panel of mock bankers who would
determine whether the loan and plan were a viable thing to invest in.
Overall, I would say that even though these courses weren’t perfect
(honestly, they were a little tedious at times), they were still very
helpful because I now understand the basics of business and
marketing, things that I knew very little about prior to the
classes.
Being that I come from a BFA background, it was a good experience
for me because it allowed me to explore the creativity that I was
sitting on for years, as well as learn technique. BUT, my technical
skills are in need of further development, and for that, I think I
will be working on that for a while. The upside, and yes there is an
upside, is that I was able to develop my conceptual thought, and for
that, I appreciate my education.
Amita
Wow, I had no idea this would get so many responses! Believe me, I
plan to get as much technical training as I can, it really wasn’t a
question of one or the other so much as what each would add to my
skills, both technically and creatively.
With the limited time I’ll have in the states next year, and how
often I move countries I have to consider not only how each option
might help me, but whether I’d be able to get those skills in the
next country also. I’m already getting technical bench training here
in Peru, but could I do a university degree here? Not with my
language skills, no. I could do a GG at GIA, while I’m back, but I
could also get an AIGS diploma in Bangkok for about 1/3 the cost when
we get posted there next. My options - and limitations - are
LITERALLY all over the map, so it’s not to say I value one focus over
the other, it’s more geography and time limits than anything!
What I wonder, though, and this is a serious question, is why do all
the ads I have seen for designers (assistant, senior, whatever) list
a BFA as a requirement or preference for their applicants? These are
not teaching jobs, they’re industry… I haven’t seen an industry
listing ask for an MFA, but if I was taking the collegiate track I
could wind up skipping right to an MFA, hence any mention of it at
all.
If I’m going to take classes to develop my creative side, I might as
well just go for the degree rather than taking random scattered
classes though, right? I know, art classes can’t make you creative,
but they can certainly help you focus and fine tune what you already
have going for you - which I tend to do better in a directed
environment, with some deadlines and pressure looming. That and if I
did decide to go all professorial out of desire or necessity, at
least I’d have the creds.
So thanks to all of you, I’ll see you in class - ALL of them!
Cheers,
Liz Sugermeyer
Hi Dennis;
skills. What I can't see is what the advantage would be in hiring a person with a degree.
As a person having both BFA/MFA in metalsmithing degrees and many
years in retail and wholesale jewelry, including a stringent
apprenticeship under an accomplished European master, I may be able
to answer that question.
In college art programs, there are years of study of art history,
design, and studio disciplines, and also, in the old days, these fine
arts degrees were also humanities degrees, requiring the usual
required courses in humanities and science. Hence, you not only get
trained in art, you get trained in thinking and in the history of
ideas and that make up the modern world. So a degreed
individual not only has the staying power to finish the degree, he or
she has a broadened world view and more general knowledge, which
contributes greatly to their functioning as an employee.
Now to the meat of the matter.
The fine arts disciplines also require countless hours of “the
critique”. All students, in all their studio courses, must drag out
everything they’ve been working on and justify it’s existence to
their instructors and fellow students. It gets picked apart for it’s
design, it’s technical execution, and it’s contribution to a world of
“ideas”. This criticism must be constructive in nature, but also
detached and objective. Eventually, they learn to be constructively
self critical about their own work.
That said, I don’t think someone with only a degree in art can
immediately fit in for a bench position without the training in the
kinds of considerations used in the manufacture and repair of most
jewelry sold in typical retail venues. After I recieved my first
degree, I accepted a job for minimum wage, working in a trade shop.
In my opinion, once one acquires these trade skills to add to a fine
arts training, one has the potential, at least, to make things that
are more unique and maybe even more beautiful than what can be made
by someone who has trained only within the industry. Now, there are
exceptions all the time; talented, creative people, with no art
background, can certainly make exceptional jewelry, especially if
they’ve trained under someone who has both technical and creative
mastery of our craft. But I would always be interested in someone who
had an art background. I have two employees. One has an art
background, the other started in a trade shop with an accomplished
master. I think I’m lucky in both cases.
David L. Huffman
there are years of study of art history, design, and studio disciplines, and also, in the old days, these fine
My Mother (GRHS) “My kids are going to have some culture if it kills
them!!” Even though I am a factory-trained, classically oriented
jeweler, people often say, Ask John, he’s the artist. I paint,
sculpt,
all sorts of things. This is a round about way of saying that I don’t
have ANY formal training in art - well, a semester of art history…
No BFA, no MFA. But I can completely relate to what David says,
above.
There was a most excellent post on this thread - I’m sorry, I lost
track of it and the author, equating jewelry with music, which is the
most accurate analogy, I think. Music theory is called “Harmony”, for
those who don’t know. Harmony teaches you “harmony” - which notes
sound good together, and also everything else known about music.
Leonard Bernstein was a PhD in harmony (figuratively). But that’s not
the same as playing the cello. To play the cello, you get a cello,
and sit down with it and scrape away till GOOD sounds come out of it,
which might take awhile. All the harmony courses in the world aren’t
going to teach you to play the cello - all the “cello-theory” classes
aren’t going to do it, the only thing that will do it is sitting down
with that cello. On the other hand, as David points out, trying to
play the cello with no knowlege of harmony will also get you nowhere
fast. There are plenty of people who scrape away blindly making
jewelry, but without some sense of design theories and composition
and
color, and etc. it’s a long road they travel. Me, I don’t have and
MFA. But our book collection long ago crossed the line from “book
collection” into library…