Even if the piece HAD deserved criticism (and I don’t believe that
it does), to put another person’s piece in one’s blog and flaming it
that way crosses all lines of civil and civilized behavior.
Absolutely unacceptable.
For shame.
Noel
Leonid is quick to comment on and, in this case, dissect images of
others’ work.
But I still can’t find any quality images of his work, that are
free…
Leonid is quick to comment on and, in this case, dissect images of others' work. But I still can't find any quality images of his work, that are free....
Because there are no good clear images, I bought his DVD, the
quality is bad, many parts are fuzzy, he is maybe a good goldsmith,
but should have asked an experience person to film it.
It is a nice project to make by hand and I learned a lot from it,
but the DVD is a frustrating experience, due to lack of
restricted viewson the subject poor quality of the pictures and my
personal frustration, the background music.
Peter Spain
With no clear or abundant and varied images of Leonid’s work it is
crystal clear to me to be bullying for Leonid to pontificate and
criticize from his (self elevated) lofty platform. A bully
intimidates others without risk to themselves. The hallmark of a
buffoon is a lack of self-awareness.
Speaking for myself, aside from the shear spectacle of it, I am
tired of listening to Leonid’s rude, snarky, off-base and
narcissistic commentary.
Without, it seems, any consequences. And I am really tired of him
becoming offended when someone finally defends themselves or
confronts him.
Opinions are essential and I enjoy a spirited even, shrill
discussion. But it is sad to see rude, mean and baseless behavior run
free in a civilized community without any real consequence.
I am sure that you have things to offer the community but, in my
opinion, that is simply not worth the effort to look
beyond the rudeness.
I will ask yet again: If you are going to criticize others, often
with disdain and intolerance, then be fair and let us see some real,
detailed images of your work. Something besides a Ballerina or
Eternity Ring and something free of charge.
Otherwise, just keep quiet and behave yourself.
Andy Cooperman
Way to go Andy: Thanks heaps for saying what is in all our minds. I
totally agree with your posting. And I don’t even make jewelry
anymore. I became 82 this past August and decided it was time to
quit, so now all I do is repair things, restring pearls or whatever
when friends ask, otherwise, I am busy having fun. But I do still
read Orchid and am delighted to see that someone has the guts to
state things that are definitely obvious to all of us.
Again, thanks for your boldness. We do appreciate it (I surely do).
Kay Vontz
What surprises me the most about this thread, and others from time
to time, is that some participants are repeatedly goaded into
emotional responses.
Could it be that that is the intended goal? Certainly, inaccurate
should be corrected, and varying opinions put forth for
the benefit of all the other readers. Otherwise, it is easy to hit
the delete key and not allow myself to be annoyed. After all, we are
not in the same room, rudeness’s are easy to avoid. There is an old
saying, “A wise man and a fool will never fight”.
Dennis Fisher
It is a nice project to make by hand
Taking this in a bit of another direction, and not pointing it at
anybody in particular…
As far as manners go, it’s been said pretty authoritatively that we
have all of our basic values in place by the age of 5. That’s not to
say that we can’t learn things later on, but those things go into
the being that was formed from the start. I choose my friends
carefully, for one thing. Aside from that is the fact that we here on
Orchid are part of the world. As the old saying goes, “this isn’t
your house…” There are young people here - young in skills if
not age - there are hobbyists and there are likely more truly able,
skilled and talented craftspeople than you’ll find assembled anyplace
else in the world. There are LOTS of people here who are working at a
high level if not “the highest”, whatever that means. Our colleague
who set off the current fire isn’t doing that either, no matter how
large the ego.
I saw Hans’ aqua pendant and I thought plenty of things that I might
have done differently. There was another piece recently that’s
unnecessary to name about which I thought the same things but much
more. The point is, nobody asked me and I’m not an idiot. The piece
is Hans’ (or whoever it may be), Hans did what he thought best, Hans
made it with his own hands, Hans is proud of it and so should we be.
This is what real teachers do in other contexts - take students to a
higher place without grinding them under your heels to gratify your
own ego. Thing is, this is only school if somebody asks for help.
Otherwise it’s just a forum of people sharing whatever they want to
share. WheneverI want to know how you would do what I am doing, if
you were actually doing what I am doing, I’ll ask ya…
And that is Hans, and it’s Helen and Peter and Brian and all of the
rest of us and yes, our Russian friend too. Give me any of the
designs that any of these people make and I will make them my way,
just as you all make them your way. And that’s why it’s called art,
whether it’s actually “arty” or not.
When I was reading Hans Meevis posting I went to l Leonard web site
and read the whole commentary, I wrote a posting what was not been
accepted by orchid, and on hind side absolutely right. I was angry
that some one could write something like this based on pictures
without any respect for a colleague andwithout any respect for some
ones product all based on a picture with the knowledge that any
picture not taken in the right angle will create distortion, After
all the pictures were never been produced to judge the pendent by
mr. Surpin, nobody asked him to be a judge.
To come back to the point, it can not be easy to moderate a blog like
this, I just wanted to give lots of appreciation to the work done.
Kind regards
Peter
Spain
Behavior within a Community
I always saw Hans posts and blog as sharing his skill… apparently
there are a lot of people that are less entitled to pursue their
craft as they wish by an assumption that judgement is theirs to
disperse, and that is all it is, no established criteria. Not about
criticism. About self entitlement to comment in a less than
benevolent manner.
This would have played out quite different if Leonid had spoken as
to how he would have done it different if he had made it, rather
than what many perceive as a personal attack on another goldsmith,
that for what ever reason, many very capable, and some less capable
goldsmiths admire. Reality is a bitch sometimes.
Orchid is a community, communities have concepts about behavior.
There are people who are afraid of posting on Orchid because they do
not want to be criticized (or belittled). It is a shame that some
people do not realize the consequences of their behavior to affect
people in a negative way. By this a valuable and benevolent
community gets affected by one persons actions. I would not be
proud!!!
Richard Hart G. G.
Denver, Co.
Nice reply and I agree. I once was a beginner 40+ years ago. Now I
see myself as someone who needs to give other beginners a better
chance then what Ihad when I started in hopes that they will far
exceed what I have been ableto do. I still have my first piece of
jewelry I ever made and once in a while I pull it out to remind me
of where I started. Was far from perfect to say the least as I am
sure all of our beginning pieces were…
To help others to be better then you are is the best complement
anyone can get in life!
Keep focused and make more beautiful jewelry.
Nice reply and I agree. I once was a beginner 40+ years ago. Now I
see myself as someone who needs to give other beginners a better
chance then what Ihad when I started in hopes that they will far
exceed what I have been ableto do. I still have my first piece of
jewelry I ever made and once in a while I pull it out to remind me
of where I started. Was far from perfect to say the least as I am
sure all of our beginning pieces were…
To help others to be better then you are is the best complement
anyone can get in life! Keep focused and make more beautiful jewelry.
Orchid friends
With your permission I am going to terminate this thread along with
all the dramas that recently took place on Orchid. I am setting the
flame tolerance back to zero.
I am also adding a public appeal to the experts and newbies alike,
to post, to ask, to comment, to agree and debate, to benefit from
and to revive the Orchid spirit. Orchid is here for you in the same
manner it was for the last 17 years.
I will do my best to exercise better judgment in the moderation of
Orchid.
Now, before i lock the thread, I ought to address a comment made by
Leonid on a different public platform:
Apparently it is Orchid taboo to point out mistakes. To add to this saga, forum moderator Hanuman refused to publish any of my posts. Let me assure everybody that I made sure that my posts were on point and did not contained any so called "flames". It did not matter. Hanuman decided to engineer a show and nothing could get in his way. I was told that Hans Meevis is a sponsor, so good luck trying to point to his mistakes. Apparently, reputation of been a goldsmith can be bought nowadays, and it cost much less than 30 pieces of silver. Well, I am done with Hanuman and his cronies, and advise others to do the same.
Leonid, please do not assume the role of the victim nor suggest a
conspiracy theory, posts that were held off the forums contained
name calling and accusations, including suggestions that the persons
involved in the debate, including myself, were responsible for
hacking into your website. its easy to complain and bit more
difficult to moderate. but if you refer to the recently posted forum
guidelines, you will learn that its not that difficult to fit in and
be a part of a constructive and supportive group.
I warmly invite you to stay with us and contribute in a positive and
helpful manner that people expect from an expert like yourself.
I kindly point you to a post I recently made:
and of course take a moment to reread Peter Rowe’s excellent post
for a better Orchid
Hanuman