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Adhesive Help!


#1

Orchid friends,

I have a repair project for setting a small [10 x 7 mm] cloisonne
piece into a 14K cast ring. The enamel is set flush with the surface
of the ring and the sides of the ring [bezel?] are 2-3mm thick. All of
this is, I’m sure, is to protect the enamel. It came to me with the
damaged enamel piece set in what looked like epoxy. It had a
transparent honey color and softened with acetone.

I remade and replaced the enamel using Devcon 5 min epoxy. I have
been told that the enamel has since released from the ring. The ring
is worn daily. I believe that I thoroughly cleaned the cavity with
acetone before “setting” the enamel with epoxy. The sides of the
cavity were basically straight. I could grind in a little groove that
would act like a holding ridge.

I am reluctant to work the sides of the ring over the enamel for a
few reasons: 1] I don’t want to cause ANY stress in the enamel by
possible pressure of the metal. 2] I don’t want to trap the enamel so
that it would have to be sacrificed if any future repairs were
required.

I have gone through the archives for adhesives and bonding agents. I
understand that the super glues are not that super because they react
with moisture and release over time. I have not found much specific
info on epoxy.

I believe the answer lies with the setting agent. What help can you
offer? Oh yes, If you have a wonderful, can’t live without it product,
will you also tell me where it was purchased?

I will be meeting with my customer on Feb. 13

Thank you in advance

Orchid Rules!..Karla


#2

Hi Karla,

I haven’t had any experience with epoxy and enamel. but I can tell
you that the 24 hour epoxy made by Hughes is very good. There are two
kinds. I prefer the water clear one in the orange package. You have a
one hour set up time and 24 hour curing time. I use it for channel
inlay work with stone in sterling silver. It may be coloured if
necessary. There is about colouring epoxies on the Orchid
archives. Is there enough space to incorporate a thin wire ring to sit
on top of the enamel and help protect the edge?

Karen


#3
    It came to me with the damaged enamel piece set in what looked
like epoxy. It had a transparent honey color and softened with
acetone. 

Here’s one suggestion – run a bead of clear (not white !!) caulking
adhesive inside of the mounting first. It should hold the enamel
piece for quite some time and provide some protective cushioning
(sp?) for the piece as well. You can put a bezel around the enamel,
but don’t use 14K – use 18K or 22K – requires much less pressure.
The caulk is the holding agent here.

I would also recommend that the ring not be worn every day – that’s
a lot of exposure to potential disaster.

Laura
@LWiesler


#4
    I have gone through the archives for adhesives and bonding
agents. I understand that the super glues are not that super because
they react with moisture and release over time. I have not found
much specific info on epoxy. 
    I believe the answer lies with the setting agent. What help can
you offer? Oh yes, If you have a wonderful, can't live without it
product, will you also tell me where it was purchased? 

Karla, A couple thoughts come to mind with your question.

First, when using epoxy for setting stones, everything must be supper
clean… This means clean eht ring and stone with a water based
cleaner, followed with alcohol or acetone to remove any residual
oils. After the items are clean, don’t touch them. Use tweezers to
hold and position the pieces. The oil from your fingers is enough to
cause a bad bond. As to the epoxy to use, the 330 0r 220 epoxies are
just about the standard but there are others that work equally as
well. The 330 drys a water clear while the 220 drys with an pale
amber color. Both are slow setting, work time around 30 minutes or
so. The 220 gives a sightly stronger bond than the 330. A general
rule for the two part epoxy is the longer the set time, the stronger
the bond. You can get the 220 or 330 at most of the jewelry or
lapidary supply houses.

The second thing I would like to point out is that if the “enamel” is
epoxy based, or for that mater, any of the chemical enamels vs fused
glass, and you set it using an adhesive, you will destroy the piece
when you attempt to unset it. What dissolves the adhesive will
dissolve the enamel. By the way, this warning applies to opal
doublets and triplets also.

Don


#5

Karla,

I feel certain the flush setting methods presented by Blaine Lewis at
his New Approach School, and also his Bezel and Flush Setting Video
will easily solve your problem. The video is from his Classroom in a
Box series and i purchased it from Rio Grande.

Teresa


#6

I don’t know how much this will help your specific problem, but for
you and others here is a site for general gluing recommendations.
http://www.thistothat.com/cgi-bin/glue.cgi?lang=en&this I keep this
site bookmarked (often for household repairs as well!).

Hope this helps,
Ed


#7

Hi Karla,

At an enamelling course last year it was recommended we use a silicon
sealer, the type used for fish tanks.

I use it to attach largish (2 inch to 3 inch diameter) enamelled fine
silver cloisonne pieces to wall plaques and wooden box tops. It’s
called Silicone Seal 44 - Acetic cure (it’s an Australian product,
however I’m certain you would have a similar product in the US). As
yet, I haven’t used it to attach metal to metal.

When set, it retains flexibility - up to + or - 15% joint movement so
helps alleviate any shocks the piece may get. Additionally, as it is
used for fish tanks, windows, skylights, etc., is it fairly water
resistant!

There is a note on the tube that states it shouldn’t be used with any
metals other than aluminium or stainless steel, however after 12
months there hasn’t been any problems with the fine silver or the
timber.

The glue is supposed to withstand harsh weather conditions - temp
range -50 degrees C to +150 degrees C.

To prevent the glue drying out (it’s supposed to be used in one of
those cartridge guns, but for the small amounts I use at a time I cut
a triangular hole - about 1 inch - in the side; remove the amount of
glue I want, then tape up the hole.

There are safety notes for it’s use on the container, please read
them.

Hope this helps,

Marianne.


#8

Karla, if you have decided that using an adhesive really is the best
way to proceed, then forget about the five minute epoxy. It’s great
when you really need fast set up time, but it suffers from two
problems. Firstly it’s difficult (not impossible, but takes practice
and planning) to get it mixed properly in the time available.
secondly, even when properly mixed, it is nowhere near as strong as
the 24 hour stuff. Applies to all makes of epoxy that I am aware of.

So, get some of the 24 hour stuff. Be carefull to get the correct
proportions of the two components. Although retail packs usually
refer to them as “adhesive” and “hardener”, it’s better to regard them
as two equally important chemicals. In this respect epoxy is totally
different from the polyester-with-peroxide-catalyst systems used with
glass fibre or for so-called cold enamelling. Get something to mix it
on that absolutely will not contaminate your mix with anything, but
especially not with any wax. Clean scrap metal is good … old tin
lids and suchlike. Business cards may be OK. At work I used to use a
large piece of thick Teflon. This contained no plasticiser, and the
cured waste could just be snapped off next day. Such is not easy to
come by, and many other plastics will not be suitable, when you need
to get maximum strength. Finally, have a plan as to just how you are
going to mix the two components. Remember, you have plenty of time,
but the most important point to bear in mind is that your final mix is
rather viscous, and becomes more so, but that molecules that are not
touching cannot react together. I much prefer to mix anything except
very small quantities with two palet knives, or spatulas. One does
most of the mixing, but occassionaly you use the second one to scrape
the first one clean. Let the mix spread out a bit, then from time to
time gather it all up into a central gob, turn it over, and mix again.

As you know, both surfaces have to be clean, and you really need to
wipe with a little alcohol or similar to ensure that. A rough surface
helps too. Apply epoxy to both surfaces, and work it about to be sure
the surface is fully “wetted”.

Finally, be aware that differential thermal expansion may be a
problem with a ring worn daily, and perhaps immersed in hot or cold
water. Minimise this problem by arranging the epoxy layer to be as
thin as possible. Perhaps consider claws or bezel to “just” hold the
piece, with the epoxy as a rigid filler and reinforcement. Or see if
it’s not possible to do aproper bezel setting after all, with no glue.

Kevin (NW England, UK)


#9

Karla, if you have decided that using an adhesive really is the best
way to proceed, then forget about the five minute epoxy. It’s great
when you really need fast set up time, but it suffers from two
problems. Firstly it’s difficult (not impossible, but takes practice
and planning) to get it mixed properly in the time available.
secondly, even when properly mixed, it is nowhere near as strong as
the 24 hour stuff. Applies to all makes of epoxy that I am aware of.

So, get some of the 24 hour stuff. Be carefull to get the correct
proportions of the two components. Although retail packs usually
refer to them as “adhesive” and “hardener”, it’s better to regard
them as two equally important chemicals. In this respect epoxy is
totally different from the polyester-with-peroxide-catalyst systems
used with glass fibre or for so-called cold enamelling. Get something
to mix it on that absolutely will not contaminate your mix with
anything, but especially not with any wax. Clean scrap metal is good
… old tin lids and suchlike. Business cards may be OK. At work I
used to use a large piece of thick Teflon. This contained no
plasticiser, and the cured waste could just be snapped off next day.
Such is not easy to come by, and many other plastics will not be
suitable, when you need to get maximum strength. Finally, have a plan
as to just how you are going to mix the two components. Remember, you
have plenty of time, but the most important point to bear in mind is
that your final mix is rather viscous, and becomes more so, but that
molecules that are not touching cannot react together. I much prefer
to mix anything except very small quantities with two palet knives, or
spatulas. One does most of the mixing, but occassionaly you use the
second one to scrape the first one clean. Let the mix spread out a
bit, then from time to time gather it all up into a central gob, turn
it over, and mix again.

As you know, both surfaces have to be clean, and you really need to
wipe with a little alcohol or similar to ensure that. A rough
surface helps too. Apply epoxy to both surfaces, and work it about to
be sure the surface is fully “wetted”.

Finally, be aware that differential thermal expansion may be a problem
with a ring worn daily, and perhaps immersed in hot or cold water.
Minimise this problem by arranging the epoxy layer to be as thin as
possible. Perhaps consider claws or bezel to “just” hold the piece,
with the epoxy as a rigid filler and reinforcement. Or see if it’s
not possible to do aproper bezel setting after all, with no glue. –

Kevin (NW England, UK)