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A comment about super-fit rings


#1

Just wanted to let you know that I took my ring to Nelson Coleman
Jewelers which is one of the names that you had provided. I spoke
to Mark Coleman who was extremely nice. In fact all of the people
whom I met while in the store were extremely nice, courteous, and
professional. I now have my ring back and I love it. I can actually
hear the click when the Superfit is closed. I have the confidence
that the Superfit will not pop open and consequently, I don’t have
the fear that I used to have that I would lose the ring. I feel that
I can recommend this product to anyone. In fact, I already have.
Thank you for your help. I would also use Nelson Coleman Jewelers
again as I feel Mark Coleman and his staff are very interested in
providing a high level of service.

Andy “The Tool Guy” Kroungold
Sales/ Tools and Technical
Stuller Inc.
337-262-7700 ext. 4194
337-262-7791 fax
Andy_Kroungold@Stuller.Com


#2
   Just wanted to let you know that I took my ring to Nelson
Coleman Jewelers which is one of the names that you had provided.  

Dear Andy “The Tool Guy” Kroungold

Matt Stuller himself referred a customer (Olde Village and Co. of
Ohio) to me that was at the Stuller seminar last fall Oct. 2003 that
had five total failures out of five rings that would not stay closed
and they were a total disaster. He just happens to be an Engineer and
a jeweler.

They were only a few months old and completely worn out confirmed by
Matt Stuller himself. Those scuff bumps only have .013 mm (one and
one third of a tenth mm) of nub on the scuff bumps. That is less than
the thickness of tissue paper. SuperFit is nothing more than a gold
Taiwan paper ring. Platinum is even worse.

I have sent Matt Stuller a letter, received by his company on May
28, 2004 and brought to the attention of his secretary who I called
on June 15, 2004 to bring it to her attention.

The SuperFit will not last more than a few months at best. It is not
a lock, it is a fake. Nobody sees the dangers of the SuperFit; until
it is too late.

See the whole story at Superringfit.com

Allan Creates
@pff
P.O. Box 51 Cote St-Luc
Montreal, Quebec
Canada
Tel: 514-488-7553
Fax: 514-489-7299
Superringfit.com
Perfectly Fabulous Fit Arthritic Shanks


#3

Andy, Why would you take your work to Maryland, when you work for one
of the worlds largest manufacturers which is located in Louisana?

Surely, one fo ya’lls mechanics could have done a decent job.


#4
Just wanted to let you know that I took my ring to Nelson Coleman
Jewelers which is one of the names that you had provided. 

Andy: You thought you edited your posting enough to be safe from
controversy not to expose the problems. But you forgot to remove the
line that tells it all. There continues to be a big cover up on this
issue.

I can actually hear the click when the Superfit is closed. 

“Right not locked” Two parts slapping together doesn’t mean that it
is locked, there is no lock. It won’t take long for her to (Gall)
scuff that clicking sound away and there it goes again. It is a
never-ending cycle. You should be hearing from her again soon and her
friends too. If you look at
http://www.superfitonline.com/sfguide.asp# you will see they have
been recommending to put a dab of grease on top of the scuff bumps to
try to delay the “Galling”. They are well aware of the mess out
there. But they are in too deep now.

The concept is all lose it just jiggles and jiggles galling the
scuff bumps. Their only hope that the ring stays on is that little
floppy hangnail latch.

I have the confidence that the Superfit will not pop open and
consequently, I   don't have the fear that I used to have that I
would lose the ring. 

“Doesn’t this say it all?”

Those of you that have the David Geller Blue Book to Jewelry Repair
and Design will see the P.F.F. system. The Geller Blue Book is also
available through Stuller.

Allan Creates
P.O. Box 51 Cote St-Luc
Montreal Quebec
Canada
Tel: 514-488-7553
Fax: 514-489-7299
Superringfit.com
Perfectly Fabulous Fit Arthritic Shanks


#5

Allan Creates
P.O. Box 51 Cote St-Luc
Montreal Quebec
Canada
Tel: 514-488-7553
Fax: 514-489-7299
Superringfit.com
Perfectly Fabulous Fit Arthritic Shanks

Hello Allan;

Excuse me for butting in here, but you have no idea the kind of
damage you are doing to the credibility of your business and your
product with the kind of posting you are doing. Consider the effect
of excessive negative campaigning in U.S. political elections if you
don’t know what I am talking about. You will not succeed in
convincing people of the merits of your product with an advertising
campaign that consists mostly of slamming the competition. If you’d
been here long enough, you would have witnessed a similar attempt by
a company selling a home-refining system to imply that the refiners
we use are dishonest. It wasn’t long before quite a number of
individuals posted sharing their dismal results with that home
system. People will just see you as having perhaps no plausible
quality to your product to recommend it over the competition and
think that you are trying to drum up business by trying to illicit
distrust in the competitor’s product.

What’s more, I think some here might agree, just because the
Superfit folks aren’t posting here doesn’t mean that your approach
isn’t somewhat in bad taste here on Orchid. And if you try to drag
Stuller into this business, you are making a serious mistake. Lots
of us, including myself, are great admirers and faithful customers of
Matt Stuller’s company and will resent it. Why not look at Michael
Knight’s of Castaldo approach. He has competitors, but he never even
mentions them. His fine company is always here to help with
suggestions and even samples of their new products. Castaldo is
always focusing on new innovations, studying the jewelers needs and
trying to address them. He doesn’t pitch his product here, but if
somebody has a question he has a solution for, you can count on him
responding, and if it means suggesting one of his company’s
products, he will often offer to send a sample. I appreciate people
who are win me over with more, not fear and suspicion. Maybe you’re
right (although I’ve never had any problems with Superfit, other than
that they are a bit pricey), but is sounds like you are trying to
hurt their reputation for your own gain. You should be focused on
helping your customers first. So far, my experience with Superfit
has been good.

Forget the competition. Tell us why your product is so great, maybe
we’ll be interested (before we decide to avoid your business on
principal, regardless of it’s benefits). And maybe you should think
about the name of your company a bit. Did you have your
"Superringfit" company name first, or did “Superfit” have theirs?
I’m not suggesting that you might be trying to capitalize on customer
confusion, or is that what you are afraid of happening to you?

David L. Huffman


#6

I had made basically the same comments as Mr. Huffmann, only I had
so far kept my comments directly to Allan and not made them public on
Orchid. I have seen his products, and I think they are a good piece
of work. I have a few reservations about the design, but no more
than I do with ANY of the arthritic shanks, and there are products
out there that I personally would never use.

Every time since my contacts with Allan that I have seen his
comments on Orchid, they have been of the same nature. Not only is
he slamming everyone else more than telling us why his are great, but
he seems to have singled out Superfit for the most direct attacks.
Why? Disgruntled former employee? Jealous competitor? I certainly
don’t know, but I have already explained to him that no matter how
good his product, I am reluctant to purchase from someone with so
negative an attitude. I have been hoping that someone else would see
and react similarly to his posts. Thank you, David. Now I no longer
feel that this is just a problem only I was having with this style of
advertising. The literature he sends out with his samples has a
similar tone.

By the way, Allan, you might want to think about how you send out
unrequested samples to folks in the US along with an invoice. I
believe US law states that if you send someone a sample when they had
not requested it, they can simply keep it if they want, without any
obligation to pay for the product or to return it. I had not
requested the product, but simply got an email one day after I had
posted something on Orchid telling me that a sample was on the way.
I assessed it, and based almost completely on the poison pen remarks,
returned it.

As for Superfit, I have used them. I have also used several of the
other products out there in our world. I can see where there could
be problems of the type Allan describes, but I have never had the
problems on any I have installed. When I have seen problems on
Superfits that people bring to me (that were installed elsewhere), it
has always seemed to be a problem of incorrect installation or
improper handling by the customer that has caused the ring to be out
of adjustment. Whether or not he will admit the possibility, there
exists a potential for problems with Allan’s product, too. Most of
the potential trouble spots I see are related to improper
installation procedures, like too much heat near the spring
mechanism, or mishandling by the end customer. That is why he,
Superfit, Fingermate and likely other manufacturers offer factory
installation service. If you don’t feel confident in your ability to
properly install the product, send it to them and let them do it.
That will assure that if there should happen to be a product failure,
it will NOT be your fault. It will either be the parent company’s
problem or the end customer’s misuse. Jim

http://www.forrest-design.com


#7

Thank you David,

Your comment is parallel to my own thinking. Orchid is not about
"bashing", but is/should be always about unselfish assistance. You
put it nicely, Judy in Kansas, where the rain is interfering with
wheat harvest, but is great for the flower and vegetable gardens.
Would you believe my gladiolas are blooming!?

Judy M. Willingham, R.S.
B.A.E. 237 Seaton Hall
Kansas State University
Manhatttan KS 66506
(785) 532-2936 FAX (785) 532-6944


#8

Mr. David L Huffman

Before circling your wagons, you should read my post again and see
that “Matt Stuller himself” referred his customer to me to upgrade.

To get his customer out of a serious situation.

I have never met or talked to Matt Stuller, but he obviously knows
quality, but is not up on the technical reasons of the premature
failure of the SuperFit. As he is simply selling what has been
advertised. This could be the reason they sell so many as everybody
is replacing the worn out rings. It looks more and more like the
automotive business, or the computer business where it is a through
away solution.

If I never told anybody what is going on, nobody would be any the
wiser.

And that cost Olde Village & Co. $10,000.00 in time and parts to
retrofit all five rings.

And for the record there is only one Himself, that is “Allan Creates
Himself.”

For those of you that find this disturbing, I don’t blame you as you
have all been duped with advertising.

You can compare the difference at Deceptive Pricing
http://www.superringfit.com/deceptive.html

Hope that covers it for you.

Allan Creates
P.O. Box 51 Cote St-Luc
Montreal Quebec
Canada
Tel: 514-488-7553
Fax: 514-489-7299
Superringfit.com
Perfectly Fabulous Fit Arthritic Shanks


#9

I, too, have a problem with Allen’s attitude.

I also received the sample with invoice.

He MIGHT want to consider that WE are ONLY the ones who took the
trouble to write. The majority of people who are turned off by it,
won’t BOTHER to write, but will just say “to heck with him.” (Or,
something stronger.) Allen: take it as constructive criticism,
please.

David Barzilay
Lord of the Rings
607 S Hill St Ste 850
Los Angeles, CA 90014-1718
213-488-9157


#10

I agree we are just here to voice what we think and try to make the
industry better and stronger…

Let’s all get along…

Andy “The Tool Guy” Kroungold
Sales/ Tools and Technical
Stuller Inc.
337-262-7700 ext. 4194
337-262-7791 fax
Andy_Kroungold@Stuller.Com


#11

David, I too thank you for your post. I’ve so wanted to respond to
what I found critical and distasteful but took no action.

Allan, in one of your replies you said:

 If I never told anybody what is going on, nobody would be any the
wiser. I believe that it is appropriate to cover the benefits of a
product in its advertising and to refrain from maligning its
competition. 

In use, a product speaks for itself and the resulting word of mouth
will distribute news of its virtues (or lack thereof) far more
convincingly than any ad.

With each of your messages over the last several months, I have
cringed at the continuing endorsement for your product tucked inside
a scornful account of your competition’s product and practices.

I treasure the Orchid community and value having a forum where we
can interact with respect even in disagreement. Sharing helpful
will include reporting good incidents as well as
dissatisfaction with a product or company.

IMHO, a factual report of personal experience is preferable to an
attack. Most of us who joined the list early on have become
accustomed to this quality on Orchid and I make a frank appeal to all
who post here to consider how we “speak”.

Pam Chott
www.songofthephoenix.com


#12

I may be coming across as having bad attitude but how else would you
all be any wiser?

There is no genteel way to critic a bad product.

The P.F.F. (Perfectly Fabulous Fit) is the only positive lock in the
world. The positive action is activated by the (18Kt.Wht.) return
spring on ALL rings as we use only one grade of spring, the highest
grade on all production. That spring returns the locking latch
automatically over a three-quarter mm locking cross bar on the female
side. When the P.F.F. is in the locked position it is a deadlock. A
powerful dead lock. So your customer doesn’t worry about a lost ring.
Our arthritic shanks are designed to work from a size 3 to 13 and
above if required, the inside spring is key in not having to rely on
the curvature of a ring to create spring tension. We have even made
custom shanks with the modern squared bottom look. As long as the
clasp and receiving bar are aligned, there is always a positive safe
lock.

As attested to in the David Geller Blue Book on Jewelry repairs.

Don’t shoot the messenger. Look at the positive side. And it is
without malice that I defend my P.F.F. with pride. And any remarks
towards my attitude are purely misinterpreted.

You should be thankful I sent you folks a sample for a close
personal look on a Memo not an Invoice, The Invoice paper had the
word Invoice blocked out with a big black bar and huge letters half
an inch high marked MEMO, so don’t misrepresent or exaggerate on the
courtesy I extended to you my American friends, with an easy return
envelope that only cost you 60 cents to return. I got a return letter
from Jim Reitze saying thanks that he was looking forward to seeing
something new. So forgive me, I believe that a business’s strength is
in its good customer relations.

I am honored and proud for the recognition given to me by Matt
Stuller himself who recommended my P.F.F. to an engineer as a perfect
solution to his problems of rings falling off his customer’s fingers,
and I am steadfast in support that my P.F.F. is the superior and
currently the only ring lock in the world.

For those of you that would like a closer look at the positive lock
action just email me your request and I could send you a PDF to
download.

Re Installation:

We do not install, and never did. We have always fabricated the
clasps and the customers do their own installation.

Allan Creates
P.O. Box 51 Cote St-Luc
Montreal Quebec
Canada
Tel: 514-488-7553
Fax: 514-489-7299
Superringfit.com
Perfectly Fabulous Fit Arthritic Shanks


#13

All fine and good, Allan, but a lot of us, I think, feel that the
proper way to promote one’s product is to emphasize the positive
aspects of that product, what makes it better than anyone else’s. I
personally have no taste for a company or person who promotes
themselves or their product by slamming someone else’s product.
Prove to me why yours is better, in other words, rather than proving
why theirs is worse. I am a reasonable person, most of the time,
anyway. I prefer to use the best product I can afford, or my
customer can afford. My first concern when selling a product is
that I am selling the best possible product, not simply because I am
concerned about liability. I want to provide good service and
products, period. Perhaps, though, somewhere in my upbringing, it was
impressed upon me that backbiting, slanderous or downright mud
slinging advertising just ain’t right. Pardon the slang, but it just
ain’t right. Maybe you actually have the best product out there, but
you are poisoning your own well by this merciless attack on one
product. Maybe you are right, but I might just choose to send all of
my adjustable shank customers elsewhere rather than buy from someone
with such a poisonous attitude.

Thanks for letting me rant, folks, but I am just getting really sick
of seeing a product slammed so continuously and without mercy. I
personally have never had a problem with a Superfit I have installed,
but I haven’t done all that many, and perhaps I have just been lucky.

Jim
http://www.forrest-design.com


#14

Jim

I personally have no taste for a company or person who promotes
themselves or their product by slamming someone else's product. 

Hear, hear! I learned my work from being impressed that someone
else had managed to do it, and emulating them in my own way. I don’t
like to talk about whether mine is better, or theirs is, because I
can’t be considered an objective source, but everyone else is welcome
to reach their own conclusions. I’ve got links to the other folks on
my website, and I send one or another of them business from time to
time, when I think their approach will suit the customer better.

I do what I do, at the best level of quality that I can, and leave
the decision in the hands of the real judges, the folks who wear my
jewelry and the others who see them wearing it.

Interestingly, the main reason I started watching this particular
subject was the mention of rings and the fitting of difficult
fingers, i.e., those with swollen knuckles. I’ve had some customers
ask me for rings that fit at one size but slip over a knuckle at
another size, and that’s something that the more open of my rings can
do very easily. I should do a little self-promotion here … :slight_smile:

Loren
http://www.golden-knots.com


#15
 Maybe you actually have the best product out there, but you are
poisoning your own well by this merciless attack on one product. 
Maybe you are right, but I might just choose to send all of my
adjustable shank customers elsewhere rather than buy from someone
with such a poisonous attitude. 

I’d like to second that comment. I too, have never had a serious
problem with the superfit shanks. And for what it’s worth, the web
site in question ends up reading all too much like some spams I get
for various “size enhancement” products, or other “snake oil” sales.
It not only spends all too much time slamming the competition, making
it seem like a despirate last ditch effort to win a loosing debate
(reminds me of John Dean’s famous scream…), but it just ends up not
instilling confidence, in spite of the assertions made. Advertise
your product Alan, and do it with a simple, positive approach
pointing out the good points of your product. Spend only a minimum
amount of space trying to make anyone else look bad. Negative ads,
just as in politics, just end up leaving a bad taste in prospective
consumers mouths, and wallets. Plus, spouting lots of negative
claims Re: others products just opens you to arguments. For example,
you spend time slamming platinum as being unsuited for an adjustable
shank. I beg to differ. Yes, it’s not as springy and rigid as white
gold, if fully annealed. But a well made, properly work hardened
product is quite durable, and proper installation technique need not
anneal the platinum. I’ve got customers with platinum superfit
shanks that have been there easily a decade, which still work just
fine, thank you…

You may indeed have a superior product. In fact, I’d be quite
willing to believe that at least, your product is very high quality.
But your marketing methods do a lot to hide that message and defeat
the believability of that claim. In addition to what I’d feel are
mistakes in your web page approach, I’d also note that for the most
part, the orchid list is very non-commercial. Many people
participating on orchid have something they’d love to sell to orchid
members. the vast majority of them carefully refrain from trying too
hard to promote their own product here on orchid, unless their
product is specifically asked for, and even then, most take an
understated, thoroughly professional sounding approach. You may
wish to consider adopting the same policy.

Peter


#16

I have a question here about the taking off of rings. I never take
off my wedding and engagement ring. I have thrown clay, raised
children, swam and gardened with them on. Perhaps one solution for
people with the swollen knuckles is to not take the rings off. I
understand that dinner rings, opals etc. should not be worn daily
but for women whose problem is with the wedding/engagment set, once
on, one option is to leave them on. I am not a jewelry jeweler, more
of a metalsmith/teacher and am not in much contact with this group.
For slightly bigger knuckles, I have noticed that a more square ring
band shape can be kinda screwed onto the finger more easily than
the perfectly round one.

Marilyn Smith


#17

My first concern after reading Allan’s posts was for my customers and
there valuables. All of you know that for most of these folks their
pieces of jewelry are far more than simple valuable commodities. So
many memories and so much sentiment wrapped up in those tiny baubles
that even the least expensive trinket becomes an irreplaceable
treasure. So I spent a relatively sleepless night wondering what to
do. I resolved to and reach as many of those customers as I could.

Over the past decade I’ve installed a few of these (15) along with a
handful of the Fingermate and quite a few more of the Fingerfit. Of
the 12 clients I contacted, none had a complaint. I might note that
a Fingermate shank closure failed. I also note that Fingermate
repaired the closure quickly with no complaint and charged only the
shipping and handling. I’ve replaced hinges and lock on several
Fingerfits that I’ve installed. I’ve had two of the rings in for
inspection. Looked okay. After a good cleaning and a dab of oil of
wintergreen everything was as good as new. Tension, click, and solid
alignment.

I’m sleeping better. The silver lining here is I’ve renewed contact
with some customers that I thought had moved on to another jeweler.

Not knocking Allan or hype for Superfit, just relating my experience
in case anyone else was having a rough night worrying about rings
falling off.

For what it’s worth,

Dave


#18
I never take off my wedding and engagement ring. I have thrown
clay, raised children, swam and gardened with them on. Perhaps one
solution for people with the swollen knuckles is to not take the
rings off. I understand that dinner rings, opals etc. should not be
worn daily but for women whose problem is with the
wedding/engagment set, once on, one option is to leave them on. 

Marilyn,

I can almost hear the collective "GASP" from every jeweler on

Orchid. You are doing what I advise every customer NOT to do. I take
great pride in the quality of my workmanship, and I just hate to see
my beautiful work trashed. I can warrantee my work only as long as
the jewelry is not abused, and this would clearly constitute abuse.
Of course, once you purchase a piece from me, it is yours and you can
do whatever you wish to it. Gardening and throwing clay in a handmade
ring is akin to driving a new Jaguar across a field, just because you
didn’t want to walk across. Don’t be surprised if your expensive Jag
is junk in a very short time. I cringe every time a customer says to
me: “I never take off my rings,” then they lick their finger to pull
the undersized ring from their finger, and try to hand it to me. I
politely hand them a tissue to drop it in. Years of food, dirt,
hair, skin, and whatever else they came in contact with is packed
into that setting. I’m just glad I don’t sell shoes… And, unless
the ring is extremely tight, you have a greater chance of losing your
ring while swimming than you have of coming out of the water with it
still on your finger. The cold water will cause your finger to
shrink, as it lubricates your hand, and the resistance of the water
will slide your expensive ring right off your finger. I hear this
every year from at least two customers.

Aside from the damage you will do to your ring, and the hygiene

issue, I’m not sure I would ever recommend to someone who has a hard
time getting a ring over their knuckle to jam in on and leave it
there. The knuckle will usually get worse, not better, and sooner or
later, that ring will have to be cut off. I have seen some very
extreme cases where the ring was so tight that it was cutting off
circulation to the finger. Americans love to sue their friends and
neighbors,especially jewelers and doctors, and I’m sure that I would
be sued for this advise if a problem ever arose.

Adjustable ring shanks are often a "last resort" in fitting rings

to an oversized knuckle. A square, or “finger-shaped” ring will often
work, and there are simple ways to keep an oversized ring from
rolling, like the addition of balls or bars inside the shank, or even
a spring-like attachment.

Make a jeweler happy: take your rings off.

Doug

Douglas Zaruba
35 N. Market St.
Frederick, MD 21701
301 695-1107
@Douglas_Zaruba


#19
    	I can almost hear the collective "GASP" from every jeweler on
Orchid. You are doing what I advise every customer NOT to do. 

Sigh, here is a bit more before all you retail, serious
jewelers have heart attaches. I have worn these rings for forty four
years. It is white gold and the diamond is round and in a tiffany
setting like most engagement rings I saw in the 50’s. The first
year, one prong broke off which I discovered while in a Laundromat.
Yes, I almost had the heart attach. I had the mounting replaced with
a six prong mounting in place of the four prong that it came in.
It’s been a long time ago folks and now I’m even thinking that it
may have been more of a bead setting illusion type mount. I had
asked for just a wide wedding band but my husband to be presented me
with the engagement ring at Christmas. He and his father had picked
it out together in a small town in southern Indiana. Yes, it has
been off. I have had it resized several times and yes, it will slide
off the finger. I will also admit that in the last year I have
started to work out in a hot therapy pool once a week and mindful of
what I read here, I try to remember to remove it before I leave
home. Sorry if I didn’t put quite all of the bits and pieces in my
posting. I do take it in occasionally to have it checked. I can see
no signs of wear to the naked eye and even with my optivisor, see
none. There surely has to be some but that’s all the magnification I
have. My husband and I talked about taking the ring off and on when
we were first married. Our mothers took them off doing dishes etc. I
think that we decided that it would be awfully easy to lose and so I
am still wearing the same ring all these years latter. If I lose the
stone tomorrow, it would disturb me a lot but on the other hand,
it’s lasted a darn long time. Oh yes, I have been lucky that my
knuckles have stayed a normal enough size and yes, I’m not into clay
anymore.

Marilyn Smith


#20
Make a jeweler happy: take your rings off. THANK YOU DOUG for
saying it!!! 

did you ever notice…the ladies that claim " I NEVER take my rings
off " say it with such pride…and when they hand it to you, you
want to gag!

Sue Kapoor Jewelers