Using tool wrap in Mokume

[Adams_Mitch]

A recent thread included a link to the web site of Hansruedi Spillmann http://mokume.ch/praesentation_e.htm

That site contained a slide show demonstrating mokume and showed wrapping the mokume in stainless steel tool wrap and THEN clamping the wrapped mokume in the clamping plates. This differs from the technique I was aware of which is to clamp the mokume and then wrapping the ENTIRE assembly in tool wrap. Which works best? Wrapping only the mokume certainly uses a lot less tool wrap and (if you wrap it tightly enough), should eliminate the need for charcoal.

Mitch Adams

[gustavo_hoefs]

when i learned how to make the moku-me gani @ penland form marvin jensen he put hide glue on the edges the point is to keep the air flow stopped until you can get it into the heat source which is the most important thing a reducing atmosphere. if you wrap the whole thing in tool wrap how are you going to see the beads forming on the edges when the metals begin forming the eutectic alloys between the layers? - goo

[jbin1]

The tool wrap has two drawbacks when used in this fashion. The first is that as shown in his website the alignment of the stack is made much more difficult. This may not be a big deal when using copper and silver alloys but the extra losses incurred when using gold alloys are significant. Second the charcoal is there for a reason , it creates a reducing atmosphere. The tool wrap will only absorb a limited amount of oxygen and will leave some to be absorbed by the laminate stack. Also if the tool wrap develops a hole in it from folding or handling (which is not uncommon) there will be nothing to reduce the oxygen that is entering the foil.

FWIW

[jbin1]

when i learned how to make the moku-me gani @ penland form
marvin jensen he put hide glue on the edges the point is to keep
the air flow stopped until you can get it into the heat source
which is the most important thing a reducing atmosphere. if you
wrap the whole thing in tool wrap how are you going to see the
beads forming on the edges when the metals begin forming the
eutectic alloys between the layers?

You are lucky to have learned from Marvin he is a true master of metal work. I really love his large mokume gane vessels. The method Marvin taught you is one that involves a liquid phase diffusion bonding. Not a necessarily eutectic alloy but one or more of the alloys in the stack reaching above their solidus temperature. The method involving the use of tool wrap relies on solid state diffusion therefore none of the layers is ever heated to the point of any liquid phase forming. Both methods laminate the billet but I believe the solid state diffusion bonding is more versatile as it gives a more workable end product with a wider variety of alloys that can be bonded in a workable fashion.

Jim

[gustavo_hoefs]

Continue from:
https://www.ganoksin.com/orchid/archive/200508/msg01194.htm

The method involving the use of tool wrap relies on solid state
diffusion therefore none of the layers is ever heated to the point
of any liquid phase forming. Both methods laminate the billet but
I believe the solid state diffusion bonding is more versatile as it
gives a more workable end product with a wider variety of alloys
that can be bonded in a workable fashion.

what would really be awsome would be to have access to the three
story press at pratt and whitney aircraft the one they use to press
the powdered metal into jet engine turbine blades. put some powdered
gold plat and assorted other stuff in that thing and see what kind
of moku me you come up with- goo

[jbin1]

    what would really be awsome would be to have access to the
three story press at pratt and whitney aircraft the one they use to
press the powdered metal into jet engine turbine blades. put some 
powdered gold plat and assorted other stuff in that thing and see
what kind of moku me you come up with

You don't need a three story press, my 3 foot tall 150 ton press
works just fine for powder metal work The problem is in getting
powdered precious metals. Steel, copper alloys, super alloys,
aluminum alloys no problem. No one is making powdered gold and
platinum alloys for sale. You can have a run done in an atomizer but
they typically want to work with around a kilo of metal in the
small scale machines. I have a kilo of powdered sterling that I
have been experimenting with but I cant afford a kilo of gold alloy
and we will not even talk about platinum.

jim

[gustavo_hoefs]

well how much gold or plat powder could you possibly need for an experiment a 3 foot press could allow you to work on a small scale. you have most likley already tried these ideas i'm going to mention maybe you could roll some plat down reaallleee thin and the gold too set it up like metal lasagne alternate powder & sheet maybe the other powder will bond with the sheet. maybe you could try chopped up bits of wire with powder mixed between like elbow noodle salad. you could do tiny little lucky charm type shapes with powder around them after its bonded the shapes will get bigger when rolled or even more awsome set up the process so the patterns come out like fossilized sea creatures it could be moku me - whatever japanse word for rock strata is - goo

[ReactiveMetals]

Aggie Beynon has been producing multi layered >powder metal pieces
since about 1980

Have you ever seen "Half Breed"? It is a naturally occuring layered
copper/ silver material from the copper mines of the Keweenaw
Peninsula of Upper Michigan. Pure copper, pure silver in a
wonderfull organic composite. I'll get some of this out too.

When our Niobium products are annealed they are wrapped in Tatalum
foil. Titanium foil would probable make a great tool wrap. It would
collect Oxygen too. Titanium wool is used in high vacuum system to
scavenge trace gases. Heat it up and it sucks everything that is
left after pumping.

Bill

Reactive Metals Studio, Inc.
PO Box 890 * Clarkdale, AZ 86324
Ph-928/634-3434 * Ph-800/876-3434 * Fax-928/634-6734
E-mail- @Michele_Deborah_Bill
Catalog- www.reactivemetals.com