how can you polish one side and texture the other side of a Moebius strip?
Depends on whether you are talking about the inside and the outside
or the left side and the right side. If you scribe a line down the
center of the strip, equidistant from the edges, you can texture one
side of the line and polish the other. A bit of a challenge, but
the finished product should look interesting. Dee
okay, how about a circle with a spot(on a smudge) in the middle? [...] hence the nipple really is the first universal symbol, and represents our common desire for comfort and/or relief.
LOL! I like that one. This could be the beginning of a huge
worldwide movement… except that according to the Target web site -
“The Bullseye Design is a registered trademark of Target Brands,
Inc.”
DMGreer, LLC
Umm - I hate to be a downer, but - I was a member of another group
(Moms and Dads) that died a horrible death because we decided to
discuss this topic. although I must admit - this group seems a lot
more tolerant and rational.
It seems as though the patience of a lot of people is wearing thin
on this topic. Perhaps it is time to “cut to the chase”. It would be
great if those who would care to could take a little time to design
a symbol they endorse, taking practical implementation into account,
and post a drawing or whatever to a particular site (Hanuman-- can
we do this on Orchid?). After a couple weeks or a month, maybe we
could vote, or come to some consensus, and call it done. Then anyone
who feels like it can take the idea and run with it. How does that
sound?
–No?
Hello Judy Yeah, I had imagined how you “cheated” in your making up
the Moebius strip into a ring. I just wanted to make a little fun out
of your mentioning of the two sides of a Moebius strip, as one of its
topographic characteristics exactly is, that it has only one side.
What you really did was make a “fake” M.-strip, where the half of its
one side was polished and the other half was textured; thus the 
And yes, I agree, it is a wonderful forum. Niels from Bornholm, where
we have not seen any snow yet.
April Your suggestion of a “okay, how about a circle with a spot(on a
smudge) in the middle?” is already in use in astrology as the
symbol/glyph for the earth.
Karen Bahr “the Rocklady” (@Rocklady)
K.I.S. Creations
May your gems always sparkle.
Peter, I want to make my personal ring with gold on one side and silver on the other, probably texturing the silver. Any advice? I know annealing will be very important as the strip is very stiff. Will the expantion of the two metals be the problem it is with gold and platinum???
Judy, you shouldn’t have problems with this. Either silver or gold
solders will bond well to both metals, and the expansion rates for
the two are close enough, and the melting points, soldering temps,
etc, close enough, that you’ll get a good strong bond, and I see no
real reason it would give you major problems. both yellow gold
solders and silver solders are not appreciably more brittle than the
silver or gold alone, so the bond won’t make the combination
stiffer than the gold alone. If you’re worried, you could always
make the two parts seperately, and solder them together after forming
into rings. Whether that’s easier or harder to do will depend on
the design. The reason this causes problems with platinum and gold
is not just the different expansion rates. It’s also that the gold
soldering temprature is so far below the melting point of platinum
that the solders don’t really penetrate into the platinum surface at
all. That makes the bond between the solder and the platinum just
one os a well wetted surface, as one finds between tin/lead solders
and gold, or just plain glue and metal. It’s the combination of
these somewhat weak solder joints, and the differences in
expansion/contraction that cracks those solder seams. With silver to
gold, you get good penetration of both metals by the solders, and
the seams can be strong.
Peter
A most excellent suggestion, Noel, but how about an additional
suggestion:.
The debate between Athiests, Agnostics and all the various religious
persuasions has sparked dissention (and wars!) over the past couple
of millenia at the least. The ranting from the “non-spiritual” side
is as strident and divisive as the adherents of a particular religion
or three, and unfortuanately, I can’t see the end of it in my own
short lifetime or those of my children.
How’s about we take this whole debate into that quiet space we all
keep within ourselves, and make our beliefs (or lack thereof)
manifest in our lives as well as upon our bodies. There is no way
that with a group as diverse as ours that we can come up with any
sort of Universal Symbol to signify our Faiths. Some don’t share by
definition, others do not permit the execution of images, others
disdain representation of any sort. Tony, and others, I understand
your lack of desire to have any sort of faith-based symbol attached
to your association with what is a group of craftworkers and artists,
but the vehemence is a bit spicy. Folks who adhere to a particular
faith of set of beliefs do so for a variety of reasons, others go to
visit their therapist once a week, others call their parents, some
drink themselves insensible or use drugs, while yet others immerse
themselves in helping others…the list goes on and on. Belief is not
a delusion, not if it allows the person to actualize their “highest
and best” and come to understand the deeper meanings of our
existence. Belief in the purely physical and scientific is still
Belief with its own set of rules and conditions, there’s simply a
different framework that’s used. I for one enjoy seeing various
symbols that people wear to signify their Faith, it reminds me of all
the different ways we have to express our psychological connection to
the rest of the Unknown. Some of the greatest artistic jewelery works
in history have been inspired by spiritual belief, from the reliquary
of the Catholic Church to the gold-and gem-encrusted mandalas of the
Hindus to the votive offerings of the ancient Celts. This is not
delusion, it has been made manifest by the minds and hands of people
working from the deepest wells of inspiration. It is not for anyone
to judge the veracity of their belief, simply to acknowledge the
wellspring of creativity that leads to these creations.
We’re all craftspeople, with enough brains and talent to create a
showcase of expression through our art. I think there are thousands
of designs bubbling about in our hearts and minds, so why don’t we
utilize the training we have acquired and drop this whole idea of
"Universal Interfaith". Bring more of a “World’s Fair” energy to this
effort and showcase the manifestaton of our respective beliefs where
the beauty of all the ways of expressing our inner spirit.
Clyde Gilbert
Greenwood Studio
Very nicely said, Clyde Gilbert. That “quiet place” within is best
developed without the ministry that comes with symbols. Unlike you,
I am uncomfortable with adornments of symbols—it becomes a
proselytizing of sorts and an announcement of separation.
Yes, and the idea of “Universal Interfaith” is naive; there are too
many of us with mosaics of beliefs that can’t just fit into a
symbol. A “World’s Fair” or “Carnival” of energy and sharing the arts
that come from our creative center should be the celebration.
Wendy Shinn
Heartswork Services
The only post I made to this thread–requesting that Orchidians
consider eschewing the use of the male generic–doesn’t seem to have
made it. Having reviewed several days I missed, I’ve noticed a few
excellent posts, but I particularly liked Lee Einer’s, which raised
the point that this discussion might be an artifact of Western
civilization.
So many modern “Western” people have such a sense of superiority
when it come to the “primitive” beliefs that sustained our ancestors.
This is as true for “people of the Book” (members of the three
Western “Great Religions”) as it is for what I think of as “people of
the books” or “superstitious rationalists”–those for whom science is
god and nothing is real that can’t be demonstrated empirically.
Fortunately, this belief is part of a dying scientific paradigm–I
know an experimental physicist who feels more akin to ancient shamans
than he does to most people who consider themselves “scientific.” And
I’m one of those people who hope the “formal religion” paradigm is
dying, too–I like to believe that fundamentalism is "reactionary"
and a sign that I’m right.
When I read some of the posts, I felt like saying, “What do you mean
’we’, white man?”–except that there are a lot of women involved, and
who knows how many people of color. (This was my response when I
first read philosopher Marshall Berman’s assertion that, of course,
“we know there aren’t spirits in trees.” I also threw the book across
the room.) For example, I find it disturbing when the notion of the
healing power of stones is relegated to the category of New Age
nonsense–tell it to the Navajo. And, whatever its philosophical
status, the “default human condition” is animism.
Yes, it’s wonderful that I live in a country where (at least for
now) everyone is entitled to her or his own religious beliefs or lack
thereof. This is also a country where mines are dug in what
indigenous people consider sacred land. Would I give up the first to
prevent the second? I guess that’s a post-modern question.
I would love to see someone like Dr. Denayer unpack the word
"universal"–give it a history and a context, point out its internal
contradictions and unintended consequences. “Interfaith” has a
history, too–not a bad one, actually, but it isn’t very universal.
It’s hard for me to know if the original impulse for this thread was
grounded in the history of the interfaith movement–which I would bet
already has its own symbols–or was actually an attempt to be
universal. If the latter, I’m afraid we’re heading toward what Hegel
called (in a slightly different context) “a night in which all cows
are black.” Maybe we can avoid getting sued by Target if we make the
symbol a circle that’s been blackened.
Humanly (and animistically) yours,
Lisa Orlando
Aphrodite’s Ornaments
Benicia, CA
I was recently trying to explain to a friend why I am drawn to
making jewellery. This friend sent me these various thoughts she had
found in a book by Thomas Mann, and I think it is relevant to some
of the discussion brought up by this thread. Maybe we don’t need an
outward symbol of connected belief but an understanding of the inner
search for connection and purpose that is, i feel, part of most
beliefs. Take from it what you will.
"Jewellery can be used for magic as well as ornament. Like fashion
it may appear to be a luxury, and a purely spiritual society may
judge it as superficial, but in Finicain philosophy of natural
magic, jewellery may be of extraordinary value to the soul.
Polishing and arranging colourful stones, setting them in rings and
brooches, keeping them on our persons and in our homes all have
enchantment value. We don’t need to mystify stones, making them too
spiritual and exotic for we become too abstract, symbolic and
intellectual about such things. There may be more enchantment in
luxury than in mysticism.
All stone is precious, but certain stones we value more than others,
for their brilliance, hardness and colour. Ficino believed that
some stones sparkle because it has material of the stars in it, so
when we see a stone at the water’s edge twinkling in the sunlight,
we may be connecting earth and heaven. Precious sparkling stones
evoke the theme of the scintilla - the spark of vitality that
resides in material, natural and artifical. This sparkle is the
sign of soul in matter and reflecting the brilliance of the stars,
it’s an indication that the material world always contains something
of the eternal. Perhaps this is one reason for giving a precious
stone as a token of engagement and marriage. In " On the Nature of
Psyche" Jung treats shine and sparkle as indicators of the very
depth of the soul. Quoting several alchemists he describes the soul
of the world - anima mundi - as scintilla or sparks of the Divine.
What is often lost in discussions of alchemy is the simple ideas
that today we can bring tokens of this divine spark into our
everyday lives through the use of precious metal or sparkling
stones.
Among the many magical objects Ficino recommends in the artful
tempering of everyday life are amulets and talismans. An amulet is
an object chosen for its particular constituent material. A ring or
pendant made of a simple stone worn everyday or on certain occasions
can be the stuff of natural magic, but the idea of an “amulet” can
be extended to apply as well to the rest of our material existence.
As we select fabrics for clothing and furnishings, for example, we
can use a magician’s eye and be aware of the spirit that is invited
by a particular material.
Today our work and the things we build sufferthe burden of
secularism: work doesn’t arise from a place in the worker deep
enough to grant sufficient satisfaction. One should take as much
time as necesssary. One must concentrate all the while, and be in
good spirits because a craftsman’s frame of mind permeates every
aspect of the work and the work will bear the imprint of its creator
as long as it exists. A maker of things is not only a person of
craft but a magician as well.
Another area where materials are significant is jewellery. During
the Renaissance, when magic, humanism and religion enjoyed a
delicate balance and a fruitful association, it was common practice
to cast rings, medallions, and other forms of jewellery that
captured the essence of a person, family or city.
The sparkle and shine of jewellery pleases something deep in the
heart. As we have seen, Ficino taught that a sparkle on earth
echoes and reflects the twinkling of the stars, so that wearing a
radiant diamond is like having a planet on your finger. Earthly
sparkle also suggest the ancient notion of the scintilla or spark
that is the inner luminescence of the soul. Solar gold, lunar silver
and the red and green stones common is jewellery animate a person
and make their life potent. This is the secret of the amulet, it
keeps death at a distance and makes life scintillating and
powerful."
Brigid Ryder
Human Symbol
All, Humans have one unique expression not expressed by any other
animate life form. This expression is unique in that in times of
anger, depression, joy, or sadness it is uniquely human. This symbol
should be made to have no gender, racial characteristics, or color.
It is a simple hug. Two individuals, uniquely human in a hug. Hugs
are always welcome and needed.
Gerry Galarneau, In chilly Phoenix, Arizona, USA, Busy time of the
year, but not so busy to remember that we are all human.
but in Finicain philosophy of natural magic, jewellery may be of extraordinary value to the soul. "This is the secret of the amulet, it keeps death at a distance and makes life scintillating and powerful."
absolute PIFFLE The amulet used used by dDiscordians as a secret
method of identifying your Discordianship for the benefit of other
Discordians is by wearing a pull-off aluminum beer-can tab, strung
through its ring, around your neck. That is called an All-Seeing Eye
of Eris (complete with Tear) and it will help other members of the
Discordian Society keep out of your way.
When this thread began, I quite frankly breezed over the “faith”
part of it. I guess I interpreted the goal to be more of a symbol
of, and I’m searching for the right description here, universal
unity. Having watched the progression of this thread, it appears
that “universal interfaith” is more of an oxymoron than a unifier.
In retrospect this seems predictable when bringing religion into any
discussion. Therefore, I would like to suggest that we change the
basis for this symbol from the current “universal interfaith” to
something more like a “universal unity” kind of thing. Perhaps
there already is such a symbol. I do not know.
Should anyone care to continue this thread on that basis, I have a
couple of comments regarding the symbol itself. While I am a big
fan of nipples, I think (just my opinion) that a circle with a
smudge in the center (Target notwithstanding) would just not be very
appealing. Call me simple or artistically uneducated if you will,
but if I were to wear or use such a symbol, I would want it to look
cool as well as symbolize something. I like some of the symbols on
the website Priscilla directed us to, www.symbols.com (very cool
website BTW!). I haven’t perused all of the symbols there but I do
like the one that Noel drew our attention to:
http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/02/0223.html While it already has
a meaning, I’m certainly not above appropriating it, turning it 90
degrees and calling it whatever.
Just my two cents worth.
Dale
This thread, no matter how related (or not) to the business at hand,
just seems to keep on finding life. The past 6 months or so have
caused me to rethink a lot of my priorities in life, how I see
religion and churches, personal relationships, career decisions,
etc. This thread has led me to some interesting inner thoughts and
perhaps will lead to some solutions and changes in my life. One
thing that seems now to be really important to me is using my
creativity to find my own inner peace and let that guide me down the
road to the future. Perhaps if I finally can do that as I approach
age 50, all else will finally fall into place. I find not only
financial benefits from my jewelry, but also solace. I find the same
thing with writing, though that is usually kept to myself or a few
close friends and family. Perhaps if more of us in this world could
find that peace in ourselves, we wouldn’t need universal symbols. We
would each be on our own quest, yet all on a common one of peace as
well. Not just peace from war, but peace from strife, famine,
disease and all else that plagues mankind. Jim
Hi, Gerry, I like your hug idea. Do you have a design in mind?
–No?
Hello All, A Totally Shameless Plug for a Non-Jewelery-Related
Something- I’d like to announce a major Conference which deals with
many of the subjects contained within this debate, and perhaps many
of you may be interested in attending this first-of-its-kind event:
If I’ve breached any sort of protocol on this list, my apologies- it
seems to be relevant to this thread, though not related to jewelery,
and I believe that many may be interested.
We’d like to invite you to participate in Mythic Journeys, a
conference and performance festival (sort of a spiritual Spoleto) to
be held in the Hyatt Regency Hotel and Convention Center in Atlanta,
Georgia, over the weekend of June 3-6, 2004. This conference,
presented in cooperation with the Joseph Campbell Foundation and
Emory University’s Center for Myth and Ritual in American Life, will
celebrate the centennial of Joseph Campbell’s birth. The website for
Mythic Journeys is http://www.mythicjourneys.org for those interested
in who will be be there- many names known the world over in
performance, academia, and literature.
Story and ritual are powerful tools for promoting cross-culture
tolerance, mental health, business success, peaceful coexistence and
for teaching character curriculum, now required in many school
systems. The Mythic Journeys Conference is the beginning of a dialog
that we expect to continue and which will have far reaching impact.
As one of our guests, the psychologist Marion Woodman told me: “This
is an increasingly complex and dangerous world. To survive it, we
need think that somehow, it all means something. Where does that
meaning come from? That’s the myth.”
The Mythic Journeys Conference will be unique in bringing together
some of the best minds in the fields of mythic scholarship,
psychology, poetry, music, film, and art for a weekend of
conversation, round table discussions, workshops, performances and
interviews on the subject of myth in contemporary life and culture.
This is a nonprofit, education and cultural event, probably the
largest of its kind ever.
In addition to Sobonfu, we have all received acceptances from James
Hillman, Marion Woodman, Wendy Doniger, William Doty, William
Todd-Jones, Brian Froud, Nor Hall, Alan Lee, Joyce Carol Oates, Sam
Keen, Scott Livengood, the CEO of Krispy Kreme, Jane Yolen, Charles
de Lint, Marina Warner, Robert Bly, Coleman Barks, John and Caitlin
Matthews, Michael Vannoy Adams, Terri Windling, mythologist Stephen
Larsen, and many others. Their enthusiasm for the project is most
encouraging and we are now working on a schedule for those who have
already accepted the invitation. In addition, we’ll make theatre,
dance, and Celtic, African, Native American, and Gospel music. We’ re
adding more daily. A complete list is available on our Web site.
We’ve also written to Toni Morrison and hope to attract her, too.
The Conference will begin with a gathering of a limited number of
attendees who will meet and interact with our participants in an
intimate setting. The remaining days will feature programs and
activities open to a broader audience.
The most critical thinkers, performers, and creators in their fields
will come together to exchange exciting ideas. Artists and
psychologists can discuss places in the mind where symbols arise;
filmmakers, academics and media experts will discuss the use of
powerful communication tools to create new myths. Dancers and authors
will show how words and movement breathe life and meaning into mythic
forms and keep archetypal patterns relevant.
Some guests will give talks or present papers, others may be
interviewed, or participate in round table discussions with those of
other disciplines. There will also be day and evening concerts, a
cocktail reception, art exhibition, theatre, bookstore and a private
suite where guests may interact informally. A key goal is to foster a
sense of community.
This will be the most intensive and “for real” experience for those
who are interested in the many aspects of how cultures around the
world have developed various ways to describe our connection to the
inherent desire to connect with our past and provide a framework to
interact with the ones who are keeping this most important part of
our collective psyche alive and relevant. This is most definately NOT
a “New Age” conference or a “Psychic Fair”, rather the first of a
series of conferences delving into our mythic past and integrating
that past into our present and future.
This is for anyone who has seen the “Conversations with Joseph
Campbell and The Power of Myth” series by Bill Moyers or experienced
his books and lectures, and wished to be able to sit and talk with
some of the finest minds in the world. No fluff here, rather a deeply
intensive encounter with those who are bridging the ancient past into
the future and the sensibilities of keeping the sense of the Mythic
in our increasingly cynical and jaded culture.
Anyone interested in more details of this Conference, including
attendance rates and a monthly newsletter, can visit
http://www.mythicjourneys.org .
Clyde Gilbert
Greenwood Studio
I know this isn’t what you are all going for exactly…but if you
are interested in seeing a symbol that was created for a Unitarian
Universalist church try this: http://www.uurockford.org/ click on
“our church” and then scroll down and click on the Rehnberg window.
UU churches are non-creedal and have agreed to a covenant of respect
for each others diverse spiritual beliefs as well as respect for
those still searching. In other words, one must do as their conscious
dictates, not as some doctrine or church dictates. It has members who
are Christian, Buddhist, agnostic, atheist, pagan, with Jewish
ancestry etc. etc. etc. When I first saw this topic I should have
jumped in, the UU church uses a flaming chalice as their symbol, but
the piece of art I am directing you to is a favorite to depict their
diverse beliefs among UU’s.
Karen
“A universal interfaith symbol, by definition will not include
atheists. They have no faith in a higher being at all.”
“Well, who is to say that they do not have faith in the power of
nature, faith in the goodness of their fellow man, faith in the
reliability of the seasons, etc? Faith needs not be exclusive of
everything other than one or more deities, one can have faith in the
concept of karma, and that is still faith isn’t it?”
I am an atheist!
I do not believe in 'lower' and 'higher'
I do not believe in 'categories'
I do not believe in 'absolute'
I am an atheist!
But:
I believe in 'childrens' liveliness'
I believe in 'variety', in 'colourfulness' , in 'movement'
I believe in 'communication', in 'exchange'
I believe in 'love'
I believe in 'creativity' , in 'art'
I believe in 'mankind'
I am an atheist… Right?.. …
Thank you for your insight and your heartfelt words,Michael.
Respectfully Sigrid