Dear Thomas: Have you tried digging the part of the ring that you’re not
working on into a pink soldering block. This would give you a close
heating surface. I don’t tend to use this method but in cases of extreme
frustration I would try it. The late Vesta Ward had this in one of her
teaching videos: it is especially helpful for those who have hand
problems.
Pauline
Thomas, I do know exactly what you mean about the frustrastion. And to
everyone who reads this, I will say once again that cleanliness and
sometimes even a polished area for surface soldering will get you farther
with less headaches… Just don’t rush anything and as Bob Marley says…
“everytin gonna be alright”… Belive me there are days when I hate myslef
because of one job I worked on, thank God those days are few. Then there
are alot of days when I can’t believe I get paid to do what I love to do…
I am a lucky guy… 
( my fiance’, she likes my line of work
too… lol) Marc Williams http://marcco-jewelry.hypermart.net/
Been there,done that. Not to sound rude, but frustrated.... (snip) keep heating until I'm afaid of collapes, still only minor melting of solder which is soft not hard.Welcome any advise or hints.
Thomas, Sounds to me like you have these two problems: (one, or both)
1.too much flux - sometimes flux will prevent flow by floating the solder
out of contact with the metal, once solder balls it should flow, you can
try touching the molten ball with your solder pick to force contact with
metal hence facilating flow.
2.porosity - most castings have porosity, even the best, microporosity in
the area of the solder can hold pickle and/or gunk that will prevent good
flow. soak (or boil) in baking soda solution, and burnish the area to be
soldered to compact any porosity that might be there. good luck! Mark Ruby
p.s. I hate white gold, avoid it every chance I get!
I have encountered many problems in the past few years in soldering. The
new metal alloys that we have to work with and the new solder formulas,
give us an opportunity to broaden our knowledge database, using trial and
error. I mix my 14kt yellow for my casting grain using fine gold and 450
alloy. The alloy contains 11% silver and sometimes gives me problems
during assembly. I really do not want to change alloy because of the
bright and rich yellow color. I clean the item in a Sparex solution,
ultrasonic and steam clean before assembly or sizing. I am using Batterns
Flux with a broad flame on a Mini Torch, oxygen and propane are my fuel
mix. Most of my assembly is done using 14kt yellow gold hard solder. I
very seldom use the easy flow, it is very hard to control the flow of that
solder. I have never used the extra easy, it should have never been
produced. The control is in the torch and not in the melting point of the
solder. The broad flame and the ample amount of flux seem to help.
Regards:
Roger W. Kitchens
I have 30+ years at the bench and still learning.
Business: www.jewelrycreations.com
Personal: www.jewelrycreations.com/roger
This has been a great thread for me. Last week I was filling a small
production order for our family bussiness, I told my Dad the problem I was
having soldering small 14kt. pieces onto 5/16 hollow balls, an operation
they have done repeatedly. They both were kind not to ouright say I was
crazy, knowing how simple it is. I would do everything I had done many
times before with sucess, but the solder would melt, but properly flow.
After being gently humiliated I went back to my bench and thought, what I
had done earlier. ( I have so much going on, I often “forget more than I
know”. I remembered, I had picked up that gold solder from a supply house
I used to deal with in Vancouver . I dug into a drawer and came up with
some Rio-Grande gold solder Dad had given me. Went through the exact same
procceedure, tuned my flame how I like it and tried to solder. As smooth
as silk, This is not the first time I have had difficulty with a certain
supply house solder. Too bad after paying for a product we cant always
expect satisfacory results Trey Carey
At 08:17 PM 9/4/99 -0500, Thomas Blair wrote:
You know Marc, you are exactly right! Running a store and getting work
done, one gets behind and you don’t think things through. Getting this
problem up on this forum and living witha few days has been
intresting. Of
course the solder had a hard time, with going twice as far over a
sandblasted area. Wth me trying harder and hotter(and I don’t just mean
the flame) and closer. Re-thinking this has turned to anticipation of my
next soldering drama. As I mentiond earlier, I did finish the ring, but
did’t feel good how it all went, I know you know what I mean. Thanks
,Thomas
Mark, Have tried #1, but didn’t think of microporosity, and that makes
sense. The white gold ring did have some porosity down near bottom of
shank ,even useing new gold and alloy!I hate white gold too…Thomas
HI, I’ve been on this list for a couple of years, waited while it was down
and glad to see it back. I’ve been a lurker, all this time, but finally
decided to post. I’ve been a gold and silversmith for about 18 years and
have a full service operation. For years, making fine gold jewelry was
the focus, but for the last couple of years, I’ve been specializing in
silver work of labrador dogs. I operate the largest email discussion list
for Labs on the net(LABSR4U), and since the customer base was already
there, I started developing labrador jewelry. I use the computer to
create designs, make two dimensional patterns with the “model master” and
the “wash away” polymer material and hand carve the 3D waxes. I cast
everything myself and finish the silver with vibrator/tumbling and hand
finish all the gold. Since I was taught by a mentor, not formally
schooled, I’ve had alot of quest
I would offer an answer to the person having problems with the bezel. I’m
quite sure that you have your torch too tight/hot. You need to use a
broader flame so the two metals can react properly. If you want to see
what I mean, take a small piece of hard silver solder and heat it on your
block, once with a broad (but hot) flame and see how it JUMPS into a
ball. Now heat another with a very tight, super hot flame and see how it
kind of lays there and cooks. There is your problem. If I were putting a
bezel in, I’d paint the piece with alcohol/borax, flux the seam, heat the
ring, put one of two pieces of solder at the seam, and gently come from
the ring to the bezel, till the solder runs the seam. I do one side then
the other, to make sure its filled completely. Hope it helps.
Bud Cravener
Thomas, The porosity you are seeing at the bottom of the shank in your
white gold is probably shrinkage porosity. The sprue that went into the
ring when it was cast was probably eiter too big for the piece or not
flared out enough… Marc
2 things different about soldering gold: First: it doesn’t conduct as well
as siilver. If you heat the whole thing the way you would silver, you can
get that suden collapse of everything. heat it all, then focus on the
joint. Second: I have a friend who is a production gold jeweler, who
advised me that one nearly always has to solder gold things twice. the
first time to tack it, the second time, after pickling, you can really get
it to flow. since I accepted this "wisdom: from him, I’ve had a lot less
trouble. Cindy
Cynthia Eid
http://www.silverhawk.com/crafts/eid
http://www.silverhawk.com/ex98/eid-c
Marc, Yes I should have sprued the ring upside down. Have you tried
’venting’ when vacuum casting. I sometimes do it, but don’t really know
the priciple behind it, or if its neccesary. Thomas
Thomas, When you say venting, what exactly do you mean? Doyou mean using
the wax screens on the inside of your flask or something similar? or do you
mean something else? let me know… Marc
Have you tried 'venting' when vacuum casting. I sometimes do it, but don't really know the priciple behind it, or if its neccesary. Thomas
Venting is used to reduce the resistance to the metal flow from the air in
the cavity itself. Think about filling a narrow-necked bottle (e.g.,
soda/beer) with water using a funnel. When you pour the water in the
funnel, the air inside the bottle has to go somewhere before it can be
displaced by the water. Since there’s only one hole for it to escape (the
neck), the outward flow of the air interferes with the inward flow of the
water.
Going back to casting, this reduction in the velocity of the flow may
cause the melt to solidify before it can reach the portions of the cavity
farthest removed from the sprue hole. In my experience I’ve found that
the effect is usually most pronounced with patterns that are either large
in terms of the amount of melt necessary to fill them or are more complex
than usual requiring the melt to travel further.
By running a smaller sprue from strategic location(s) back up to a point
above where the main sprue enters the investment (aka “venting”), you
provide the air with a channel of its own to escape through without
interfering with the melt coming in through the main sprue.
Hope that answers your question.
Warm Regards,
Shawn