Stuller - and the state of loyalty

It is not you or the fact that you live in a foreign country.
Stuller, as any wholesale/retail jeweler in the USA is subject to the
USA Patriot Act, EU Anti-Terrorist Funding Act (if we ship to a
country outside the USA) and the Anti-Money Laundering Act… With
regards to the Credit Card purchase we are also subject to the (USA)
FBI Directive of 2006 pertaining to the purchase of precious metal
jewelry and watches purchased with a credit card. Stuller or any
merchant is liable to the US Treasury Department to prove they have
on file the required and this is enforced by Homeland
Security. As for Stuller asking for invoices to other wholesalers,
they are not licensed to sell retail. Only wholesale. They have to
have on file that you are a merchant and the easiest way is to
provide paid invoices that can be verified through other wholesalers.

In your instance, Stuller has to keep on file your how
you paid, how they verified you were a legitimate customer paying
with authorized funds, if you were a wholesale or retail store. We in
the USA have no way to verify a credit/debit card from another
country is legitimate or being used by the actual card holder. When
we get a ‘charge back’ for one using someone else’s card, it is a
loss of the goods, loss of the funds, loss of shipping, Customs fees
and a $400 fine. Three in one month can be a $10,000 fine. The bank
does not notify you. They monitor your account and wait for you to
have the funds and then sweep it. The money a merchant gets credit
for after a credit card sale, does not belong to them for 180 days.
During that time the bank can revoke those funds for any reason.
Those funds are a loan until it clears and the 2.75-7.5% ‘fees’ are
the interest on the loan. If you are not paying 7.5%, look at your
statement closely and see the total amount for A*X business cards
with miles or government cards. This is only for card not present
transactions. This is why so many merchants are careful.

Now, when I have shipped to Spain, the Spanish government wants me
to supply three copies of the buyers business license if they are
buying wholesale or a copy of their National ID card if it is retail.
It is YOUR country’s requirement, not ours. France has a $200
’Customs Broker Fee’ if we ship by FedEx. This is in addition to the
Customer Customs duty and VAT. It is not as simple as many think.
Each country has their requirements as to what we are allowed to ship
to you and how we may ship it. Some countries require that they have
the ability to track the package. While you think you are tracking
your delivery, so is your government, tax agencies and Customs.

If the customer refuses to pay the customs duty/tax and/or VAT, it
is either returned to me COD for the two shipping charges and two
customs fees. Yes, I pay Customs again to get my own merchandise
back. And for some others that ship international, some countries
began taking 5-9% off the top for bank wires to the USA. The customer
has no idea when they send it as they are also paying to send it. I
pay to receive it. Then I find the amount has been looted for banking
transfer fees by the senders bank. I switched to Western Union only.

Regarding supplying your bank even though you paid with
credit card, your government knows everything you are purchasing
before you receive it. I have had customers that had to meet with
Customs and Customs already had a copy of the bank wire, Western
Union or credit card statement and knew how much was sent to me. If
your banking matches what is on file with your credit
card, it is not a problem and the goods most likely will be shipped
to you.

Stuller has been very good to me. Being an internet only retailer
beginning in 1998, very few companies would have anything to do with
me. It took me five years to quality to be able to buy wholesale from
most of the big names. Some suppliers will sell to anyone. Hobbyists
if you will. Others are required to sell to retail storefronts only.

In 2007 Stuller flew me into their headquarters for three days. They
taught me a lot. In return they asked me for nothing, except to
consider them when I was making a purchase as I grew. They knew how
important the internet would become, wanted to become part of it, and
knew I was growing. I was totally impressed with their operation,
security and shipping. When one of my major suppliers for wedding
rings went out of business, I called my rep at Stuller and told her
what I was looking for. She put me in touch with their wedding ring
buyer. He gave me the name of a manufacturer in Canada who could make
what I was looking for. He called ahead of me and gave a
recommendation and introduction. I have called Stuller looking for a
repair jeweler, jeweler who can set diamonds, a jeweler that could
meet with a customer to CAD or carve a piece or just a retail store
in a customer’s location that I could not help. They have always gone
out of their way to give me a referral that I could pass on to a
customer.

I had a large shipment from Stuller come in one day. Missing were
six diamond engagement rings. I called in a panic as who would
believe me when I told them. I explained the bags were all sealed and
the person that packed them signed them. I had replacement rings,
sized and set the next morning and a pre-paid pick up for the
packaging. I was impressed.

By contrast, one time another company in NY had shipped me four
rings, only there was one missing. I called them and they said it was
my problem as they had packaged four. It was the last time I ordered
from them. They have since gone out of business.

So our friend Peter, do not take it personal. The Anti-Terrorist
Funding Act is worldwide. If you have not encountered it yet, you
will. Just for giggles, go into your local bank and inquire about
wiring $5,000 to the USA for gold jewelry you would like to purchase
for your own use.

Italy, France and Germany make some of the best jewelry tools in the
world. I would think you might have easier access to them with a
supplier over there. I sure wish I could! By the time the company
puts me in touch with my ‘authorized retailer’ the price is usually
triple!

Best of luck and with total respect,
Charlie

Dear Members,

Joy, your order with Otto Frei was placed on the evening of 8/13 at
8:03PM pacific time and filled and shipped the next day on 8/14 day
via UPS ground, the shipping method that you selected. From our
Oakland warehouse to your address on the east coast, UPS takes 5
business days to deliver (weekends don’t count), and your order was
delivered on time as promised on 8/21/12. It is the shipping method
you select that is slow, not the order execution from us or our
fellow western based companies, Rio Grande and Indian Jewelry Supply
that you also mentioned as having slow fulfillment times. Otto Frei
has multiple online shipping methods to customers in the USA-5
different UPS shipping service levels, 5 different FedEx shipping
levels, and good old USPS Priority Mail, which is generally less
expensive and quicker than UPS ground to many parts of the USA,
especially the east coast.

The issue here is really that we could be doing a better job of
letting you know the expected shipping days and delivery date for a
selected shipping service level when you place an order online.

We are always working on addressing issues like these and someday we
should have this improvement in place. It may seem like a simple fix,
but the amount of time and money that goes into an upgrade like this
keeps me awake some nights.

Perhaps it is better to let this minor slight pass, but I do feel
the need to set the record straight, as in the world of customer
service there are always 2 sides to every story. Joy, I hope you will
continue to honor us with your business. We sincerely do appreciate
it, because your business allows all of us here at Otto Frei to pay
our bills and put food on the table for our families.

Love to see your collection of hammers, by the way.

When comparing vendors in the jewelry industry, I can only offer
that our competitors are all first rate companies that deliver
excellent customer service and products at extremely competitive
pricing. Just like you, we are sweating bullets to stay in the game.

Steve Frei

France has a $200 'Customs Broker Fee' if we ship by FedEx. 

This is a FedEx thing and has nothing to do with France. You are
presenting things as if these are all legal requirements. Which they
are not. I live in France and frequently order from around the world.
What strikes me most, is that all my US-american suppliers must be
criminals, or at least outlaws. I come to wonder that they have not
adopted all the measures you describe as obligatory.

Isn’t it more that Stuller (or you) does not want to do business
outside the US? Why such a long-winded explanation? It’s a business
decision, and that is perfectly acceptable. But that’s it.

he complain about Stuller has certainly created lengthy explanations
by some of use!

My response on the various arguments

I am very happy with the service from Riogrande, delivery time is
between 4 or 6 days (including custom clearance) from order date
what is not bad at all for delivery to the south of Spain. Any
question I have receives a reply in 24 hours, not bad for a small
guy like me, on the other side of the ocean!

I buy were ever the prices and conditions are good were ever in the
world, but having said so the majority of my tools, findings and
sterling silver ( I work only with silver) comes from Riogrande and
a Dutch company Bijoumoderne. Cookson UK is good but more expensive.
Spain has to my knowledge only very small companies and to my
experience I receive my goods faster from the US or Holland than
from Madrid.

re the statement about money laundering and the anti terrorist
thing, my orders are on average between 1,000 and 3,000 us$ I have no
experience with money laundering but I assume the sums are bigger
than my average orders, beside of that it must be for any supplier
obvious that something is wrong when a customer orders lots of gold
bars and diamonds but never any tools, my current order contains
bulk pack radial bristle disc, one stusa chain nose plier a few
denim lapis cabochons some jade cabochons and a lot of sterling
silver wire, 36 drills size 0.8 and 36 drills size 0.5 ( I keep
breaking this dam things!) plus the dvd from Fretz Hamering and
Forming. So I do not believe that my orders are a danger to the USA
safety. (any suggestions to help me stop breaking drills are
welcome!)

I have bought and buy stones and various other items from other US
companies one or two times a year, I have never encountered the
approach like from the company Stuller. I pay before delivery so
this long story about credit cards and risk for the supplier is not
relevant in this case.

The story that Stuller wants to protect the professional jewellery
branch against individuals sounds odd, what about minimum order
request of US$ XXX? that would solve the issue! I also read a posting
about consumers showing up with parts in a jewellery shop with the
question if you could but them together, I would not have a problem
with that, just charge what ever you want to charge extra for your
hurt feelings.

All in all I would not be interested in buying from Stuller any
more, the world is full with suppliers who provided a good service
and don’t have the attitude like Stuller

greetings from a warm south of Spain
peter

All in all I would not be interested in buying from Stuller any
more, the world is full with suppliers who provided a good service
and don't have the attitude like Stuller 

25 years working with Stuller, and they are the nicest, most
gracious, helpful customer service people I have ever worked with. I
have never encountered a situation where anyone has had any kind of
attitude.

Stuller is a really large company, very well run, and I am sure they
are a model for other companies because of their success by managing
inventories, great customer service, and usually great quality of
goods.

If I work with a company about 4 times a month for 25 years and have
few problems, and if they are responsible for something that is not
right, and they step up and make it right without hesitation, when
someone has a problem with the company, who is creating the problem?

If their policies are hard to work with, that is one thing, but
taking an attitude that it is the fault of the company sounds
arrogant. I think some people figure out how to work with policies
and customs issues and get what suits their needs.

Stuller does protect the jewelers, and that is important to Stuller
customers.

If you have a suggestion how they can improve, I am sure they are
open to hearing what anyone has to say.

Seems to me, the U.S. companies would be, for the most part, very
similar in the policies for foreign customers. It has been pointed
out, Stuller is set up to service true wholesale accounts. Rio
Grande does not have anywhere near the selection of findings Stuller
has, and if you use mountings, there is no comparison.

Quality Gold is another company with similar products to Stuller. I
would like to know if anyone in Europe does business with them, and
how do their policies compare to Stullers for overseas orders.

Richard Hart G.G.
Denver, Co.

I agree with positive comments about Stuler. I have been using their
services for over 10 years and true, when I wanted to register they
gave me a hard time and it took many weeks before I 've got an
account with them but it was worth the wait. I also am very glad for
the Toronto branch. Big fan in Ottawa…

Danuta Cieslukowska
www.goldcast.ca

25 years working with Stuller, and they are the nicest,
mostgracious, helpful customer service people I have ever worked
with. 

I’m going to pick up where Richard, and also Steve Frei the other
day, left off.

I haven’t read the part of this thread that has complaints, but I get
the idea from Richard and Steve. There are a lot of amateurs here on
Orchid, and God bless them. There are a lot of people who aren’t as
evolved as they think, and God bless them too. But when you take your
business to a professional vendor, which both Stuller and Frei are,
it is ~required~ that you have your act together. Both companies are
going to go out of their way not just to make you happy but to keep
you happy. If you order a 2mm setting it is not their fault that your
stone doesn’t fit. If you order UPS ground it is not their fault that
it comes in a week. You just are supposed to know what you want, how
many, why and when ~before you ever pick up the phone~. Neither
company is in the hand-holding business, they are in the precious
metals and gems business and if you can’t make it happen nobody
really cares much…

Stuller does protect the jewelers, and that is important to
Stuller customers. 

This, above all is my biggest beef with Rio Grande. Rio will sell to
anyone with a credit card and I only rarely use them, for things I
can’t get at Stuller.

Many companies in the USA do not stick rigidly to their wholesale
policies when it comes to foreign accounts. They have to be sticky
about US law of course. But extraterritorial application of US law
should not happen. Although it certainly does happen sometimes.

I wish, in Australia that we had trade only tool suppliers. I only
get to my tool suppliers once or twice a year. A professional’s time
is precious and there is nothing more frustrating than when a hobby
person is wasting the highly trained shop assistant’s time with
hobby 101 questions about products. If the hobby person does not know
what for example round nosed pliers are for then they should go to
school and learn what the tools are for, not learn off youtube from
my experience a very dangerous place to learn, before wasting a
professional’s time by making us wait to get served. If they were
being trained properly the teacher would have explained all of this.
Alternatively they could view the Orchid archives. So how do we the
get the hobby people to access this fantastic resource?

I am not talking about apprentices or students setting up their work
shop. In that case many trade people in the show room really like to
help. E.g. what are you going to do with that? And then a couple or
more professionals will put their years of experience into the
discussion and everybody learns. So no money is wasted on
inappropriate tools. For example when starting out why spend $1000
on a bench. I recently built 2 for my new workshop cost $150 each,
they are combination benches i.e jewellery, silversmith and
gemsetting. This left money over in the budget that was enough to buy
my daughter to a benchmate and some tools, silver and

Thankfully my gem dealer is trade only and the customers go through
a vetting process and when in there know what they want and THEN look
for the new/interesting things. Such as the piece of amber with an
insect I was lucky enough to get as a regular customer, who doesn’t
spend much; less than $5000 a year, I really appreciate the quality
service in a trade only environment.

I use O’Neills Affilated they were kind enough to allow me to leave
my daughter on her own to do her first gem buy, only $300 to spend,
while I went to my bullion dealer. Their advice and service made her
feel confident and professional. Also when I went in there with my
wife, who loves to work with semi-precious beads, there were
initially some questioning looks from the staff as my wife slowly
looked through the semi-precious beads. Little did they know, but
were soon to find out, she knows as much about beads as anyone on the
planet, over thirty years experience. This became obvious when strand
after strand were placed on the counter.

Not to say the service in the tool suppliers is anything less than
fantastic I just wish the hobby people went to a hobby shop or
bothered to learn properly from the many quality teachers we have in
this country.

Negativity aside I really like talking to other professionals in a
tool supplier. No one is as critical of products as someone who has
actually used them on the bench. You can’t beat direct interaction
the next best thing is Ganoksin. The number of replies to my
questions is fantastic, helpful, informative and profitable!

Sorry for the whinging
TTFN
Richard

Hi Richard,

The Australian trade jewellery industry is relatively small, and the
tool suppliers here would starve if they didn’t have a broader
market. There are a lot of self taught people that are clients of
HOJ, AJS and JTB, if they just supplied to the trade they would have
to charge more. That’s the way I see it anyway.

I was offered a jewellers bench for free the other day, but I’m
going to make my own “two-seater” bench, so I declined the offer.

Making your own gear can be satisfying, and, if you do the research,
can provide an economical tool equal if not better than a commercial
product.

O’Neils supplys good quality gems, however I would use Eastern Pearl
for pearls, and Lilo for boulder opal pairs. I bought from their city
store when they were at the trade show in Sydney, and because they
were in a mess they were very relaxed. However I was given the “third
degree” when I went another time… I see the grilling as a good
thing :smiley: They wont just sell to anyone.

Regards Charles A.

Richard,

A professional's time is precious and there is nothing more
frustrating than when a hobby person is wasting the highly trained
shop assistant's time with hobby 101 questions about products... 

How about professionals in other disciplines? Buying a PC and an
IT-expert has to wait? A camera, and a photographer enters the shop?
And and.Do you feel sorry for them?

As far as Stuller is concerned, the story was about ordering online,
so no professional goldsmith has to waste time because of stupid,
uneducated hobbyists. If the - rare - idea is to protect the jewelers
business, then the question is if this helps in the days of the
Internet and probably 90 (?) percent of the jewelry fabricated in
mass-production by machines, somewhere in the world.

You might guess correctly that I’m one of those - by now
semi-educated - hobbyists, and I’m aware that I’m no competition for
a trained goldsmith. Quite the contrary I have learned to appreciate
unique and beautiful peaces fabricated by goldsmiths, and would never
again buy or want to have something else. Yes, I (or my husband)
still buy! What I produce usually ends up in a drawer after being
worn once. It’s the process I enjoy, like other people enjoy growing
orchids. Florists are not going bankrupt because of that.

Br Sylvia

Hi Sylvia,

How about professionals in other disciplines? Buying a PC and an
IT-expert has to wait? A camera, and a photographer enters the
shop? And and. Do you feel sorry for them? 

You have a point if the PC or photo shops you are referring to are
retail stores located in a mall or something. But if their business
is dedicated to wholesale supply and the professional photographer or
computer sales and service retailer is their core customer, I would
most certainly expect to wait until all commercial customers had been
taken care of, even if some came in after me. I would also not be at
all surprised if they gently refer me to one of their customers for
my retail needs. In fact, I’d be a little shocked if they didn’t.

The guy that delivers flowers to the back door of the flower shop in
our strip mall won’t sell me a flower. Heck he even asks me not to
pick one up if he drops it on his way in. He’s smart enough to know
that if Mr. Montgomery (the flower shop owner) even thinks for a
moment that I’m buying flowers for my wife and for my store directly
from his wholesaler, he will fire him in a nano-second. Rightly so.

The guy that delivers food to the back door of the Chinese
restaurant also in our strip mall won’t sell me fish or steaks
either. Same reason.

It’s great that there are hobbyists, it adds a great wealth of
diversity to our chosen field, and it’s great that we live in a place
and time in which we can all “grow our own” if that’s our desire. But
I’m certain that you can understand why the owner of a wholesale
agricultural supply company that I’m talking to about how to properly
spread a five pound bag of lime might ask me to have a seat and wait
a bit when the farmer who has 1500 acres to turn over by tomorrow
walks in and needs to purchase and arrange delivery of 5000 pounds of
seed corn.

Please don’t take what Richard posted in the wrong way. He didn’t
call anyone stupid, or make any derogatory remarks about hobbyists,
those are your words. It’s no insult, Sylvia. It’s business.

Dave Phelps

Hi Dave,

no worry, I did not take it personal/feel insulted. I just could not
understand why a discussion on ordering online from somewhere led to
the story about hobbyists causing delay for professionals while
shopping.

I buy online or ‘offline’ wherever they will sell to me, and there
is a wide selection.

I did not want to get lengthy - otherwise I might have added that I,
when I have the need to visit a retail shop, naturally step back /
ask the salesperson to serve the business customer first. For
which I want to see before buying, I call the dealer and
ask when it would be appropriate to come. My gemstone dealer sent me
to a gemstone setter, the gemstone setter to a goldsmith with laser,
the goldsmith to an engraver. I have a number of professionals
helping me out, but I always insist on paying for their work or time
and would never want to abuse their kindness. Most likely they are
amused seeing my efforts - so what? If I made their day, that’s ok
for me.

During 6 years I have not met one professional showing any negative
attitude.

Br Sylvia