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Stop copper from tarnishing?


#8

I have to disagree on this one. I have no affiliation with Legor but
their clear nano ceramic electro plating solution works great and
makes the piece hypoallergenic. A great product. No oxidation ever.


#9

I have pieces plated with the Nono ceramic plating that have been in
servicefor 2 years now and no signs of problems. Just my two cents
worth. Solvents will remove ti if it is ever needed.


#10

I am very interested in this discussion, but for a very different
purpose.

As many of you know, I like to create detailed imagery on titanium
using anodization. This involves masking areas that are not currently
being colored (pun intended). The mask needs to be electrically inert
and clear (so I can see where I’m supposed to add/remove color).
That’s easy-- clear tape, fingernail polish, and such.

The trouble comes in when I am anodizing to higher voltages, and
also when I want to remove small areas. Imagine, for example, I want
to create individual blades of grass (green=high voltage) over sand
(gold=very low voltage). Every mask I have tried lifts around the
edges at high voltage, and/or is gummy or brittle so I can’t get
clear, crisp, thin lines through it.

The nano-ceramic coating has been suggested, but there is one more
criterion, and it is crucial-- I have to be able to remove the mask
readily when it has done its job.

So if you are still reading, and you think you may have something
that fills the bill, and that I can try without investing a fortune
before I even find out if it will work (might well be worth investing
if it does work) then PLEASE let me know!

Noel


#11

Noel,

This intrigues me. Most masking products will at the higher settings
will lift, due to their adhesion properties. What you need is
something that will get gummy not melt or unstick at the edges. Just
for a thought, why not take a snippet of a latex glove, and use some
acetone to make it gummy. You can do that with a Q-tip swiping the
acetone on the back of the cut out. Experiment with sticking that
gummy surfaced piece on the metal.

It may or may not stay in place, but just the properties of latex,
(rubber would be better) It’s worth a try. It’s just one of my crazy
ideas at 1 am.

As for the tarnishing of copper, I know too much about this at least
of some obscure old ways of protecting the copper. Renaissance times
and back they would use bee’s wax. That wears off and we do not have
servants to polish and reapply the wax as needed in this day and age.
Today a cheap way that lasts just about as long is to use Hair Spray.
Problem with it, is it can end up dulling a nice shiny piece. Others
that last a bit longer are stray acrylics from hobby shops. A bit
longer. Then there are some dip like solutions Rio sells some. But
with wear they will end up flacking chipping or just plain wearing
off. Some people may have reactions to the chemicals.

Oxygen and even UV light will turn copper colors if just left out in
the open. It will turn from a nice pink new color to a deep orange
color as it ages (Why can’t my hair do that instead of turning pure
white) Oils are what turn it brown like the pennies we see. It needs
a barrier to keep these environments from affecting the copper.

Sorry Vernon, I had a friend with the nano set up do an ornament for
me to see how it would last. It didn’t make it through the summer.
But then I can kill a computer just typing on it. You don’t want to
see my garden.

Storage i use those black paper like strips in bags I zip lock. That
helps short run, but if they are handled, I have an apprentice (yep a
real one) who gets to polish the pieces on stage while I do my thing.
The worst thing that happens to copper is rain. Even wearing a piece
that has been protected, seems to get a mottled look if caught in a
downpour. Maybe it is just the rain in the mountains of So. Utah in
the summer.

What I found out was the best way to deal with tarnish is to educate
the people. I tell about the history of all the ways to protect a
piece then go on about patinas. Everyone loves my Al Gore patina
joke. Even made it on a video interview to be shown in Australia a
couple of years ago.

Get to know your market. Know what they would like to know about
copper care. A nice half page sheet of instructions about the care a
feeding of copper jewelry is a nice bag stuffer. You can also regale
them with ketchup being the best copper cleaner. Just instruct them
to go to their favorite fast food burger joint and ask for copper
cleaner with their fries. It gets a good laugh. I even put a little
packet in with a full set in a fancy bag. People love it, and it
closes those sales some hesitate about.

My motto is “Turn any disadvantage into an advantage.” It’s just a
matter of perspective.


#12
This involves masking areas that are not currently being colored
(pun intended). 

What pun?

Elliot Nesterman


#13

Thanks, Agnes,

It may or may not stay in place, but just the properties of latex,
(rubber would be better) It's worth a try. It's just one of my
crazy ideas at 1 am. 

Unfortunately, cutting up latex gloves will not be likely to give me
the detail and control I need, and edges I cut through with a ball
bur are not likely to be crisp and clean. But-- what is it about
latex or rubber that you think might hold? I’ve used rubber cement,
but it didn’t work well.

Neither did frisket, a latex product watercolorists use as a mask on
paper (though both work pretty well as masks for sandblasting).

The requirements that the mask be transparent and easily removed are
a major limitation, but absolutely necessary to the way I work.

Noel


#14

This involves masking areas that are not currently being colored
(pun intended).

What pun? 

currently being anodized. see, anodizing requires current… um,
never mind. nerd humor.

Noel


#15

Noel,

Why I thought of rubber and latex is they are closer to their base
or pure form. Rubber cement and others like the frisket are mixed
with other chemicals that make they very good at regular temps. What
you are experiencing is the heat being given off by the current.
Rubber and latex can take the higher heat where substances that are
made from them ie the rubber cement can’t take the heat. To adhere
the rubber and latex, it is best to get it gummy. That is how the
layers of rubber are built up before they vulcanize it. Best
substance to make both gummy is to use acetone.

Just coat the surface. Do not pour it over or you will totally melt
it.

All of this was just an idea to try. Now that it is not yet the
magical hour of all ideas for me, (12 pm not 1 am an hour to go) I’m
trying to think of if we have any rubberized threads that might work.
Think elastic. Problem with all my ideas is that they are not clear.
If you wait until Monday, I will head over to the fabric store near
me and snoop around to see what they have. It just needs to hold up
to a current type heat that doesn’t last long so if it can hold up to
my ironing it can hold up to ths short duration current. Ok out of
old lady mode.

Aggie


#16

IN stone printmaking we use gum arabic to cover areas that we do not
want the ink to adhere to it Gum arabic can be used to protect the
sensitized litho plate or stone from grease ie finger
oils

I bought some to try and use with my etching in metal but haven;t
had a chance as in no studio yet.

Teri


#17
*currently* being anodized. see, anodizing requires *current*...
um, never mind. nerd humor. 

Gah. Now I feel dumb. (It was a pretty far stretch, though.)

Elliot Nesterman


#18
This intrigues me. Most masking products will at the higher
settings will lift, due to their adhesion properties. 

I imagine you’ve already tried watercolor masking fluid? And high
temp spray paint won’t work, because it’s too hard to remove?

Elaine


#19
*currently* being anodized. see, anodizing requires *current*...
um, never mind. nerd humor. 

Good one! I didn’t get it at first either, I guess I need to amp up
my attention level!

Elaine


#20
Rubber and latex can take the higher heat where substances that
are made from them ie the rubber cement can't take the heat. To
adhere the rubber and latex, it is best to get it gummy. 

What an interesting idea. I wonder if Noel could take the clear RTV
stuff, mold it into the flat shape that she wanted, and then stick
it to the metal?

What’s an easily reversible glue?

Why not use spray glue and then soak it off with Attack? I know
that’s maybe something you’d like to avoid, but given your
requirements, it might be the only way.

Elaine


#21
I have to disagree on this one. I have no affiliation with Legor
but their clear nano ceramic electro plating solution works great
and makes the piece hypoallergenic. A great product. No oxidation
ever. 

It is a good coating but not permanent, it does wear.

From Rio’s catalog page

" Coatings can wear thin over time, depending on how the coated
jewelry is cared for and maintained, and may need to be re-applied."

James Binnion


#22
I imagine you've already tried watercolor masking fluid? And high
temp spray paint won't work, because it's too hard to remove? 

Yes; and, no kind of spray paint will work because 1) paint is
opaque and 2) spray doesn’t allow me pinpoint control of where to put
it.

I feel as though it may come across that I’m just finding reasons to
object to everything, but my needs are very specific and difficult,
which is why I haven’t found the exact right thing though I’ve tried
quite a number of things.

Noel


#23
What you are experiencing is the heat being given off by the
current. 

It is more likely the severely oxidizing nature of the surface of
the anode breaking the adhesion at the boundary of the mask. Oxygen
is liberated on the surface of the anode during the process. The
current flow is very short so no heat. As soon as the voltage is
applied the titanium oxide builds up to the point that the current
flow stops.

James Binnion


#24

You are correct James. It will wear off over time but in my
experience it isthe best option out there. As I said I have pieces
done 2 years ago and they are still looking like new.


#25

I have 20-30 year old Phill Hartsfield knives with copper and brass
that have still not tarnished. Not sure what he used. Possibly just
the Choji oil as on the blade. I think he also used Clove oil and
Ren wax. There are some other knife nuts on here that may know.

Charlie


#26
I have 20-30 year old Phill Hartsfield knives with copper and
brass that have still not tarnished. Not sure what he used.
Possibly just the Choji oil as on the blade. I think he also used
Clove oil and Ren wax. There are some other knife nuts on here that
may know. 

Choji oil is clove oil. Choji is the Japanese word for cloves.

Elliot Nesterman


#27

Elliot, Charles, or whomever can answer,

What does clove oil do for the metal besides scent it? :wink:

Cheers!
Becky